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08-01-2020, 13:35   #16
RobertKK
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Arson didn’t cause the catastrophic conditions in Australia, years of drought and heat did. I see all the right wing sources are now pedalling ‘arson’ as the cause. They need to keep big business churning, consumerism thriving & pollution and climate change on the back burner after all.
The government were warned by all who deal with these bushfires regularly last April about what was coming and they did nothing. It’s a national if not global disgrace. Australia like to pride themselves in their military and being ‘allies’ of the US. They should’ve had them out there in the front line from the word go. Not some poor volunteer pointing a single fire hose at a 200 foot tall & km’s wide inferno....
I saw ABC news in Australian citing arson for a number of the fires.

I was thinking this is something terrorists could do quite easily.
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08-01-2020, 13:48   #17
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I saw ABC news in Australian citing arson for a number of the fires.

I was thinking this is something terrorists could do quite easily.
There was a part time fireman arrested for starting fires and he went out fighting them again until he was arrested I would say a lot were started deliberately
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10-01-2020, 00:26   #18
Gaoth Laidir
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There's no real major trend regarding Australian rainfall over the past 120 years, nationally or regionally. 2019 was the driest year, but in the southeastern region where the fires were it was by no means the driest.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change...ker=timeseries







Max temperatures are going up but pan evaporation is stationary.





In SE Australia, the rising December max temperature trend is much less, with no increase in evaporation.



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10-01-2020, 13:27   #19
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Now they are culling the camels.. Utterly heartbreaking.Invasive species and drought measures.

And the photo of the tiny toddler in white and the big uniformed officer pinning a medal on her, set against her father's flower-covered coffin. The second such tribute to little ones born to sheer gutsy courageous men in fighting fires as volunteers.
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10-01-2020, 18:59   #20
Carol25
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[quote="Gaoth Laidir;112212369"]There's no real major trend regarding Australian rainfall over the past 120 years, nationally or regionally. 2019 was the driest year, but in the southeastern region where the fires were it was by no means the driest.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change...ker=timeseries







Max temperatures are going up but pan evaporation is stationary.





In SE Australia, the rising December max temperature trend is much less, with no increase in evaporation.



[img]http://www.bom.gov.au/tmp/cc/evap.seaus.12.63441.png



I’m just wondering what is your overall point? Do you think the climate is getting warmer or not?
Are you saying there hasn’t been a drought in Oz that the mainstream media talks about, that the animals dropping dead from the sky due to the heat and lack of water is a natural occurrence? Now 10,000 camels have to be culled due to drought?
What would your explanation be as to why the fires are so out of control this year more than any other when the government claims the same resources were used to fight them - why were there fire thunderstorms+tornadoes occurring so frequently. Arson starts fires in a lot of countries but the apocalyptic conditions that developed in Oz don’t seem to follow.
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10-01-2020, 20:38   #21
Gaoth Laidir
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I’m just wondering what is your overall point? Do you think the climate is getting warmer or not?
Are you saying there hasn’t been a drought in Oz that the mainstream media talks about, that the animals dropping dead from the sky due to the heat and lack of water is a natural occurrence? Now 10,000 camels have to be culled due to drought?
What would your explanation be as to why the fires are so out of control this year more than any other when the government claims the same resources were used to fight them - why were there fire thunderstorms+tornadoes occurring so frequently. Arson starts fires in a lot of countries but the apocalyptic conditions that developed in Oz don’t seem to follow.
This year was a hot and dry year, with an increasing trend in summer max temperatures, but there is no trend in annual, spring or summer rainfall or pan evaporation one way or the other since 1900. Here's that link again. Those images I posted yesterday expired but I couldn't be bothered uploading them again and doing the work for you. Look at the different variables for the whole country and the Southeastern region for both annual, seasonal and monthly periods and make your own deductions. Look at Spring and summer rainfall and pan evaporation. Maps and trends.

Arson made up a significant proportion of fire initiations again this year, and with changes to the management of fire fuel it's no surprise that there was a major catastrphe waiting to happen.

It might interest you to know that the Australian government have been officially culling camels for years. This petition is from 6 years ago and got 23,000 signatures then. This is nothing new. Here's another petition from 8 years ago. It got over 60,000 signatures.

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Camels allowed Australians to explore and settle in the country. Instead of honoring the camel's vital role in the founding of Australia, the government's recent call for a camel cull has marked camels as nothing more than a menace.

Australia has the highest camel population of any country. The animals originally began to breed in the wild after the British introduced them to Australia from India and Pakistan in the 19th century. Now that they thrive, Australia wants to cut their numbers.

Camels became fair game in 2009 when the government decided to spend AUD$19m to eradicate at least 1/3 of the camel population. Private contractors often shoot camels dead from helicopters, leaving their remains where they fall in the desert. Needless to say, alternative approaches exist but have yet to be properly explored.

Ask Australian Feral Camel Management Project leaders to find an alternative to a mass killing of wild camels.

Last edited by Gaoth Laidir; 10-01-2020 at 21:05.
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10-01-2020, 20:53   #22
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10-01-2020, 21:03   #23
Gaoth Laidir
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Taking the url from the BOM image, like I did yesterday, will just expire. It was a pain doing it all on the phone, so sod that for a game of marbles! Off topic: is there really no proper way of posting images on the Touch site without having to manually type "[img]" and "[/img]" before and after each url?
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11-01-2020, 01:02   #24
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-51071800



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/opinion/australia-fires.html
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13-01-2020, 04:16   #25
mandrake04
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Let’s clear up some facts.

Current bushfires only about 3% of area burnt is attributed to arson, the larger fires in very remote areas originated from lightning. Bushfires are nothing new and although they happen nearly every year... they don’t happen on this large scale every year ...but very large fires have happened in the past.


I’m no climate change denier, but I live close to an affected area and these fires have nothing to do with climate change. Now its convenient to blame long term drought on this but the reality is drought is mostly affecting west of the state of NSW they are mainly on level 5 restrictions for years where the east only went to level 2 in mid December. Most of these fires are in the east of the state in an area had a lot of rain during September which is usually the driest month at around 50mm but got triple that this year. (See attached)

This has two effects (a) it super charges spring growth (b) the time of the rain and it’s wetness afterwards decreased the window for HRBs. The spring had unfavourable western dry winds unsuitable for HRB and a hot dry summer provided perfect conditions for large fires.

The government should have spent the money and carried out cultural burns and better long term Hazard management over the last 10 years and had a backbone and ignored the greentards, hopefully they learned their costly lesson.


The camel cull is nothing new, camels are a big problem as they consume a lot of water and strip the bush of food like bush plums essential to other wildlife. They are the ultimate pest in WA as they do a lot of damage, there are companies that for a cost will fly actually you (as a licensed amateur shooter) on a Camel safari to a base camp and you go out on a shoot from back of UTEs. You basically bring in your own rifle and they provide ammo and you shoot feral Camels, Donkeys and whatever else.

This current 10,000 cull is because the Camels are now encroaching on some of the communities and either consuming or contaminating the water.
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