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Landlord, deposit

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  • 02-07-2010 10:58am
    #1
    PinkChick
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭


    Hi, we are currently coming to the end of our lease. We spoke with the landlord and said that as they have our deposit, we would leave this months rent and we are even. He said he would think about it, came back the next day and said he wanted half of it. We know that it's probably not by the book to do it this way. The simple fact is that we don't trust him to give it back and are trying to protect ourselves from that. Why does he want half, he either wants us to pay or doesn't want us to pay. In asking for half, it's obviously planned to keep some or all of it.

    Our rent was always paid on time and there have been no issues. We asked for a bed when we moved in and got it ten months later, towards the end of the lease (obviously trying to butter us up to stay). There is no damage to the apartment, no rent arrears and the bills are all up to date and in our name. My question is, is there anything that he can do to us if we don't pay the rent this month, considering he has our deposit to cover it.


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    #2
    not even wrong
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭not even wrong


    Your landlord is in the right here, your deposit is not your last month's rent. You are supposed to pay your last month's rent as normal and then get your deposit back when you hand the keys back to the landlord upon moving out.
    My question is, is there anything that he can do to us if we don't pay the rent this month, considering he has our deposit to cover it.
    Realistically, no.


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    #3
    Gone Fishin
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭Gone Fishin


    Providing there is no damage to the apartment or furnishings or that there is no outstanding bills (Gas, ESB, UPC etc), he can't do anything. If all of this is okay, he should willing return your deposit to you. If he doesn't, you can report him to the PRTB. Try to leave on good terms, clean the place, make sure everything is in order. Take photos if you don't trust him.

    As a Landlord myself, I wouldn't agree to someone paying their last months rent with their deposit, as it is the only security you have. You are leaving yourself wide open if the property is damaged or if bills are left unpaid. I would do a joint inspection, once everything is fine and the bills are paid in full, I would then release the deposit. I would prefer the tenants in my property to be happy in the place and to enjoy staying there. I have always carried out repairs as quickly as possible and done what is asked of me as fairly as possible. It works both ways I guess.


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    #4
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    It will say in your lease about witholding last months rent or not. Check it.


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    #5
    manchegaman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭manchegaman


    PinkChick wrote: »
    Hi, we are currently coming to the end of our lease. We spoke with the landlord and said that as they have our deposit, we would leave this months rent and we are even. He said he would think about it, came back the next day and said he wanted half of it. We know that it's probably not by the book to do it this way. The simple fact is that we don't trust him to give it back and are trying to protect ourselves from that. Why does he want half, he either wants us to pay or doesn't want us to pay. In asking for half, it's obviously planned to keep some or all of it.

    Our rent was always paid on time and there have been no issues. We asked for a bed when we moved in and got it ten months later, towards the end of the lease (obviously trying to butter us up to stay). There is no damage to the apartment, no rent arrears and the bills are all up to date and in our name. My question is, is there anything that he can do to us if we don't pay the rent this month, considering he has our deposit to cover it.



    I wouldn't trust the landlord in this case. Sounds dodgy. I'm in a similar predicament. I am going to be leaving soon and know well that the landlady will not return my deposit. She already pulled the wool over my eyes in the past on something else. I want to pay last month's rent with my deposit. I have the place kept tidy and clean. No damage and pay rent on time.
    You are leaving yourself wide open for robbery as the landlord will probably not return you deposit if you don't trust the asshole. Go with your gut feeling!
    I don't think they can do anything to do. In theory you've paid. You're not following their rules as they won't return you the deposit. You should be ok as long as the place has not been trashed. That's my opinion. I'm trying to get more info on this too as it's not totally clear to me either.


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    #6
    bugler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭bugler


    But it is clear. The deposit is not to be used as the last months rent. LL's are under no obligation to allow you to use the deposit for this purpose. And unless there are other instances of their dishonesty I fail to see how you can construe a LL’s reluctance to do this as suspicious. The OP’s landlord is being more accommodating than he/she needs to be.

    The deposit is there to cover certain eventualities: non-payment of rent (note this is not equivalent to you electing to use the deposit as rent), damage above wear and tear etc. It’s called a “security” deposit because it gives the landlord security that he won’t incur losses by a tenant who leaves with furniture, doesn’t pay their rent, knocks a whole in the wall, breaks windows. If the landlord hands this back in effect by allowing you to use it as rent then he has no security.

    I sympathise if you have a dishonest or untrustworthy landlord, as that puts a different complexion on the matter, but the OP has given no concrete information that the LL will act in this way.

    A compromise may be agreeing to meet at the dwellign on the final day for an exchange of keys & deposit. The property can be inspected at this time.
    If the deposit is retained unfairly go to the PRTB. You will win the case.


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    #7
    Gone Fishin
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭Gone Fishin


    Totally agree with the last poster. Agree a date either the day before or the day of your leaving. Go around the house with the landlord, do yourself a favour and make sure the house is clean. Ensure all bills are up to date and provide proof of that if you can. Following this, I would be looking for my deposit back straight away.

    The lack of proof of payment of the bills and closing the accounts with the relevant service companies is the only reason the landlord should hold back some (not all) of the deposit.

    Not all landlords are bad, some of us do have the interest of the tenants in mind too.


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    #8
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    What happens if you leave and don't pay the last months rent, you're even, right? So you think, what about any damages and bills left unpaid? What about the landlord protecting himself? Surely you can see this? You are making assumptions and what not. If the house is the same as you moved in then you have nothing to worry about. You would be entitled to your deposit back.


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    #9
    PinkChick
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PinkChick


    Hi manchegaman. Our LL seems to have accepted the situation, he called down and saw the apt was well cared for and not trashed in any way. All the bills are in our name and we have paid deposits which will cover any unpaid bills (which there are none). I contacted Threshold and was confident in the reply they gave me. If you want to PM me I can send it on to you. You are dead right, go with your gut. We had a bad feeling and acted on it and feel it was the right thing to do in our situation. As I say, if you PM me I can send you on the reply from Threshold.


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    #10
    petethebrick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭petethebrick


    Well if the apartment is as you found it and you don't trust the landlord then I say definitely don't pay the rent this month. There's nothing he can do.
    Just tell hime you have no money beacuse you've put deposit on new place or something etc


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    #11
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Thank you for this thread.... We are in a financially tough spot as we ae fighting an illegal eviction notice plus harrassment and the only way we can pay a deposit elsewhere is to stop paying rent to cover the deposit. Given the landord's behaviour we have no trust in him; we have asked to have the deposit back so we can move, which is what we all want, but of course no reply.


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    #12
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    bugler wrote: »
    But it is clear. The deposit is not to be used as the last months rent. LL's are under no obligation to allow you to use the deposit for this purpose. And unless there are other instances of their dishonesty I fail to see how you can construe a LL’s reluctance to do this as suspicious. The OP’s landlord is being more accommodating than he/she needs to be.

    The deposit is there to cover certain eventualities: non-payment of rent (note this is not equivalent to you electing to use the deposit as rent), damage above wear and tear etc. It’s called a “security” deposit because it gives the landlord security that he won’t incur losses by a tenant who leaves with furniture, doesn’t pay their rent, knocks a whole in the wall, breaks windows. If the landlord hands this back in effect by allowing you to use it as rent then he has no security.

    I sympathise if you have a dishonest or untrustworthy landlord, as that puts a different complexion on the matter, but the OP has given no concrete information that the LL will act in this way.

    A compromise may be agreeing to meet at the dwellign on the final day for an exchange of keys & deposit. The property can be inspected at this time.
    If the deposit is retained unfairly go to the PRTB. You will win the case.

    This is exactly the case...people deciding they won't pay the last month's rent can leave landlords facing losses. As a tenant you don't have the right to do that.


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    #13
    sesna
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    athtrasna wrote: »
    This is exactly the case...people deciding they won't pay the last month's rent can leave landlords facing losses. As a tenant you don't have the right to do that.

    Unfortunately so many landlords out there keep deposits unfairly, its what people are forced into doing.

    It would be easy for me, for example, to get a friend to clean the apartment, get a bogus receipt and take a few hundred euro out of a deposit.

    I moved out of an apartment 3 years ago, with the place left in perfect condition and fully cleaned. It still took 3 months and too many phonecalls/emails for the landlord to eventually reluctantly return my deposit. Maybe if landlords copped on and didn't spend deposit money that is never theirs in the first place.


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    #14
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    athtrasna wrote: »
    This is exactly the case...people deciding they won't pay the last month's rent can leave landlords facing losses. As a tenant you don't have the right to do that.

    In an ideal world this would be so; however a major cause of tenants being stuck in bad accommodation is that landlords do not return deposits promptly and thus tenants are unable to move as a new deposit is needed and on welfare gathering that is often an impossibility.

    Landords do not have the right not to return deposits immediately but they do that.
    If you are up to date with bills etc and nothing needs replacing? Why not?

    A difference is there between poor and better off in this consideration.

    We asked our LL to return our deposit as without it we cannot move; he has refused. He has been abroad and had no idea what state the place was in when we moved in so we are making sure he will be left with paperwork to sort that as there is no way we are taking the blame for the poor state of cleanliness etc.

    What option have we but to recoup at least some of our deposit? He is trying to evict us illegally; not the deed of a trustworthy person.


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    #15
    sesna
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    Graces7 wrote: »
    In an ideal world this would be so; however a major cause of tenants being stuck in bad accommodation is that landlords do not return deposits promptly and thus tenants are unable to move as a new deposit is needed and on welfare gathering that is often an impossibility.

    Landords do not have the right not to return deposits immediately but they do that.
    If you are up to date with bills etc and nothing needs replacing? Why not?

    A difference is there between poor and better off in this consideration.

    We asked our LL to return our deposit as without it we cannot move; he has refused. He has been abroad and had no idea what state the place was in when we moved in so we are making sure he will be left with paperwork to sort that as there is no way we are taking the blame for the poor state of cleanliness etc.

    What option have we but to recoup at least some of our deposit? He is trying to evict us illegally; not the deed of a trustworthy person.

    I would use the last months rent as deposit. That way, no one is being left out of pocket.


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    #16
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    sesna wrote: »
    I would use the last months rent as deposit. That way, no one is being left out of pocket.

    We only have the poster's word for that. Graces7 has always come across as a person of integrity on here and I don't doubt them in this case...however it won't always be the case and any landlord accepting the deposit in lieu of the last month's rent leaves themselves open to all sorts of losses.


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    #17
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    athtrasna wrote: »
    We only have the poster's word for that. Graces7 has always come across as a person of integrity on here and I don't doubt them in this case...however it won't always be the case and any landlord accepting the deposit in lieu of the last month's rent leaves themselves open to all sorts of losses.


    For those kind words, thank you.

    But again, it really is academic for many of us, isn't it? The lease here expires in November anyways so we are really playing for time. If by then we have not the deposit for another place? On the streets? For lack of money that we are owed, that is ours?

    It took us four months to get one deposit back.

    I think also that many landlords will simply not be asked; by the time they realise that the rent is overdue? We went on to weekly payments last week. With that in mind.

    What else can we do? It is making me ill all of it. Just want out of here into somewhere decent and with a decent landlord.


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