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Cork City flood -again

13

Comments

  • #62
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Does the river usually flood there ? ( I know it regularly floods round the corner at crosses green )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #63
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/CorkSafetyAlert/status/1327668516493856768?s=19


    Pretty bad but those cars are traveling too fast.


  • #64
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/OldMouseCork/status/1327658834236747778?s=19

    High tide at 4.25 today.


  • #65
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Pretty bad but those cars are traveling too fast.

    I thought so too!
    I'm no driver, but that seems dangerous to me.


  • #66
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    I thought so too!
    I'm no driver, but that seems dangerous to me.


    The engine if petrol could get wet and die. Also the brakes would be gone after going through that.


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  • #67
    Appleguy
    Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭Appleguy


    MyPeopleDrankTheSoup wrote: »
    the €180m is from the SaveCorkCity crowd. The OPW say it would be around €1billion for a tidal barrier, which sounds more realistic

    €1Billion is the OPWs budget for the whole country for 10 years. Cork a massive problem no doubt, but its not the only area with flooding problems!

    The reality of it is the money will be spent somewhere regardless. If Cork don’t / can’t take it they’ll spend it in Galway/Limerick/Donegal/Dublin etc.


  • #68
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    If it's not guaranteed to work and makes the city a less pleasant place the 99.5% of time there isn't a flood do we even want them to spend the money?


  • #69
    cantalach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭cantalach


    TheChizler wrote: »
    If it's not guaranteed to work [...]

    Not taking a side in the debate, but neither quay walls nor a tidal barrier is “guaranteed to work”. That’s not how civil engineering works. If something is designed for a 100 year event, there’s going to be a flood when a 1,000 year event happens. The amount you’re willing to spend determines how much head room is built in.


  • #70
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Cork city is doomed. Fated to sink under the waves.


  • #71
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    cantalach wrote: »
    Not taking a side in the debate, but neither quay walls nor a tidal barrier is “guaranteed to work”. That’s not how civil engineering works. If something is designed for a 100 year event, there’s going to be a flood when a 1,000 year event happens. The amount you’re willing to spend determines how much head room is built in.

    I accept not guaranteed to work is the wrong term, maybe I should have said has design flaws that make it likely to fail for a normal event.


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  • #72
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Cork city is doomed. Fated to sink under the waves.

    All that new building work on Penrose Quay will be under water by the end of the century.

    The future lies on the north side.


  • #73
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    jennyners wrote: »
    soon it will be like Venice and there will be gondolas in the high st


    Who'll feed them!


  • #74
    blindsider
    Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭blindsider


    Appleguy wrote: »
    €1Billion is the OPWs budget for the whole country for 10 years. Cork a massive problem no doubt, but its not the only area with flooding problems!

    The reality of it is the money will be spent somewhere regardless. If Cork don’t / can’t take it they’ll spend it in Galway/Limerick/Donegal/Dublin etc.

    Finland built a children's hospital for €170m in 2 yrs - How much will ours cost and will it open this decade?

    This is from the IT a good few yrs ago:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/group-told-dublin-metro-costs-are-double-madrid-s-1.369371

    Labour and material costs for the proposed Dublin metro are nearly 2½ times what they would be in Madrid, according to figures provided to an Oireachtas committee.

    The figures, compiled by Spanish metro experts, also suggest that a metro contract costing 469 million in Madrid would rise to 1.04 billion in Dublin.

    The new figures have led to calls from the Labour Party that the Rail Procurement Agency (RPA) should not be allowed to oversee the construction of any underground rail link    .

    So, why doesn't someone go to an international firm like the ones who say they can build the tidal barrier for €180m and offer them a fixed price, fixed duration contract?

    There's a heck of a difference between €180m and €1bn+


  • #75
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    No flooding today but look at the excavation on Princes St. at high tide. We might not get visible flooding but the river is running only inches under our feet twice a day through the soil. Some walls aren't going to stop floods appearing in the middle of the city.

    https://twitter.com/WMA_arch/status/1327970230518362118?s=19


  • #76
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    New walls will be useless then.


  • #77
    alanucc
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭alanucc


    TheChizler wrote: »
    No flooding today but look at the excavation on Princes St. at high tide. We might not get visible flooding but the river is running only inches under our feet twice a day through the soil. Some walls aren't going to stop floods appearing in the middle of the city.

    https://twitter.com/WMA_arch/status/1327970230518362118?s=19

    Not looking for a debate, but beware of confirmation bias. A picture of a wet trench at high tide shows correlation, not necessarily causation.

    For example, I could point out that it had been raining all night, right up to high tide that morning at 5am. See Met Eireann data for Cork airport below. There is a possibility that the image just shows rainwater collecting in the trench.

    That guy's pictures at the subsequent high tide are a bit underwhelming, unless there's something I'm missing? It's interesting that there was no rain recorded today from 9am to 5pm...


  • #78
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    blindsider wrote: »
    Finland built a children's hospital for €170m in 2 yrs - How much will ours cost and will it open this decade?

    This is from the IT a good few yrs ago:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/group-told-dublin-metro-costs-are-double-madrid-s-1.369371

    Labour and material costs for the proposed Dublin metro are nearly 2½ times what they would be in Madrid, according to figures provided to an Oireachtas committee.

    The figures, compiled by Spanish metro experts, also suggest that a metro contract costing 469 million in Madrid would rise to 1.04 billion in Dublin.

    The new figures have led to calls from the Labour Party that the Rail Procurement Agency (RPA) should not be allowed to oversee the construction of any underground rail link    .

    So, why doesn't someone go to an international firm like the ones who say they can build the tidal barrier for €180m and offer them a fixed price, fixed duration contract?

    There's a heck of a difference between €180m and €1bn+

    Comparing anything in Ireland with anything in Spain is nonsense.

    The labour costs alone in Ireland would be a multiple of Spain. The materials cost also have an inherit labour cost attached therein.

    There's a reason Spain is so much cheaper to holiday in than Ireland....


  • #79
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    I agree 1 set of pictures isn't enough but the fact it went away and came back (even underwhelmingly) at high tide with no rain inbetween points in a certain direction. There's probably a combination of rain and tides, as well as activity at Inniscarra, but, and not to fall into another logical fallacy of appealing to authority, these guys have been involved in studies of the water permeability of Cork City and pointed out the geology around the river is basically gravel. Would be interested to watch this pit over the next few days and see if the correlation continues.


  • #80
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users Posts: 30,783 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Cork city is doomed. Fated to sink under the waves.

    Ah sure don't worry - if there's any city that'll float safely, it's Cork!


  • #81
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    TheChizler wrote: »
    I agree 1 set of pictures isn't enough but the fact it went away and came back (even underwhelmingly) at high tide with no rain inbetween points in a certain direction. There's probably a combination of rain and tides, as well as activity at Inniscarra, but, and not to fall into another logical fallacy of appealing to authority, these guys have been involved in studies of the water permeability of Cork City and pointed out the geology around the river is basically gravel. Would be interested to watch this pit over the next few days and see if the correlation continues.

    If you want proof of tidal action within the city away from the river , go to bishop lucey park ,...
    Just inside the main gate is an excavated section of the old city wall , the water ( and beer cans,) in that excavation rise and fall with the tide ,. And as far as I know it's not connected to any body of water ..


    https://images.app.goo.gl/qosDnZDpb6jXYtaw7

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • #82
    blindsider
    Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭blindsider


    Rodin wrote: »
    Comparing anything in Ireland with anything in Spain is nonsense.

    The labour costs alone in Ireland would be a multiple of Spain. The materials cost also have an inherit labour cost attached therein.

    There's a reason Spain is so much cheaper to holiday in than Ireland....

    so we should just accept that every piece of infrastructure in Ireland will cost multiples of what it costs elsewhere and be delivered late?

    I had hoped for a more constructive reply TBH.

    (And Yes, I know the Berlin airport was 10 yrs late etc. That is proof that it's not easy.)


    If we don't push really hard to improve the way we deliver major infrastructure projects in a cost-effective manner, we will continue to get cost overruns and interminable delays.


  • #83
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    Ah sure don't worry - if there's any city that'll float safely, it's Cork!


    Yes but a translate for Corcach is a swamp!


  • #84
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,731 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    saabsaab wrote: »
    New walls will be useless then.

    Of course, but the OPW and their concrete industry buddies won't hear of it!

    It's like putting walls on a sponge.


  • #85
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Video of the tide coming up from below. Again, another anecdote isn't evidence, but it's another finger pointing the same direction.

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMoodyDraws/status/1328247325236621313?s=19


  • #86
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Professor Dr. J. Philip O’Kane from UCC will be presenting on Cork City Flooding at this virtual hydrology conference on Wednesday (event starts Tuesday), if anybody is interested.

    https://www.crowdcast.io/e/NHC2020/register


  • #87
    cantalach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭cantalach


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Of course, but the OPW and their concrete industry buddies won't hear of it!

    Again, I don’t know enough to take sides here, but I’d have thought that a tidal barrier would be even better for the concrete industry?


  • #88
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,757 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Video of the tide coming up from below. Again, another anecdote isn't evidence, but it's another finger pointing the same direction.
    ]

    Surely, anyone who's lived in Cork long enough has seen water rising up the drains. Is anyone claiming otherwise?

    I remember being in The Long Valley years ago when it flooded. The water first started coming from the downstairs toilets and subsequently came in the front door.


  • #89
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    the beer revolu wrote: »
    Surely, anyone who's lived in Cork long enough has seen water rising up the drains. Is anyone claiming otherwise?

    I remember being in The Long Valley years ago when it flooded. The water first started coming from the downstairs toilets and subsequently came in the front door.

    Surely then you'd ask yourself if building walls along the river is going to help alleviate the problem?


  • #90
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    the beer revolu wrote: »
    Surely, anyone who's lived in Cork long enough has seen water rising up the drains. Is anyone claiming otherwise?

    I remember being in The Long Valley years ago when it flooded. The water first started coming from the downstairs toilets and subsequently came in the front door.
    I guess it's pointing out the scale of the problem, the number of one way valves they'd have to install to seal the drain exits must be huge, and relies on all of them working and no breaches. It also points out streets well away from the river are below the max height of the tide and vunerable from below, it's not just the visible flood coming over the quay walls.


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  • #91
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,757 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    TheChizler wrote: »
    I guess it's pointing out the scale of the problem, the number of one way valves they'd have to install to seal the drain exits must be huge, and relies on all of them working and no breaches. It also points out streets well away from the river are below the max height of the tide and vunerable from below, it's not just the visible flood coming over the quay walls.

    My point was that, surely, this is common knowledge and not denied by any side?
    We hardly need people on twitter telling us that the tide is right below the city!


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