Cull the Herd

micky jammy delahunty · 22-05-2019 2:29pm

recedite wrote: »

But also the practical one. In third world countries they have a lot of kids, but they invest very little in their kids. Its a bit like buying lotto tickets. More tickets improves your odds. The hope is that at least one of them will do well, maybe even make it to a wealthy country and send back some money. Others might not do well, or even die. Its important to plan for old age when there is no pension and you rely on your relatives for food.

This actually causes the downward spiral into greater poverty and chaos. The country is poor, with no pensions, so people literally breed their own pensions, but since everyone is doing this, you have more young mouths to feed in a country that's already poor, now you have a huge number of children and adults have to put a huge effort in feeding and looking after children, and less time doing things that might create wealth and make the country less poor. The result is war, famine, and more poverty, rinse and repeat.

Where does religion stand on having children. Jesus says absolutely nothing about either contraception of abortion being wrong, it seems thoughts central to Irish religious and social piety, were of such little concern to him, he never felt the need to speak on the matter. In the old testament there's even instructions and a recipe for carrying out an abortion.

So, in Ireland, it was probably nothing to do with religion at all, and maybe a social class of people who saw themselves as the farmers of men, simply breeding more livestock in an attempt to achieve greater wealth for themselves.

In the west, kids cost you a lot of money to raise, and you'll still get your pension whether you have kids or not. In fact your pension will probably be better without kids, because more time was available to be spent on career and work.

Pensions don't come out of thin air. Regardless of how old people have secured a means of financing their old age, the material goods are all going to come from young people. Basically, you can't buy a young healthy nurse and store her in a hole in the ground and then dig her up decades later when you need them. If they're not there, they're not there. You can't be a farmer of men, if there's no men there for you to farm.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2019 3:08pm

micky jammy delahunty wrote: »

This actually causes the downward spiral into greater poverty and chaos. The country is poor, with no pensions, so people literally breed their own pensions, but since everyone is doing this, you have more young mouths to feed in a country that's already poor, now you have a huge number of children and adults have to put a huge effort in feeding and looking after children, and less time doing things that might create wealth and make the country less poor. The result is war, famine, and more poverty, rinse and repeat.

Where does religion stand on having children. Jesus says absolutely nothing about either contraception of abortion being wrong, it seems thoughts central to Irish religious and social piety, were of such little concern to him, he never felt the need to speak on the matter. In the old testament there's even instructions and a recipe for carrying out an abortion.

So, in Ireland, it was probably nothing to do with religion at all, and maybe a social class of people who saw themselves as the farmers of men, simply breeding more livestock in an attempt to achieve greater wealth for themselves.

It was everything to do with religion. to think otherwise is just blatant ignorance.

recedite · 22-05-2019 3:20pm

micky jammy delahunty wrote: »

Pensions don't come out of thin air. Regardless of how old people have secured a means of financing their old age, the material goods are all going to come from young people. Basically, you can't buy a young healthy nurse and store her in a hole in the ground and then dig her up decades later when you need them. If they're not there, they're not there. You can't be a farmer of men, if there's no men there for you to farm.

That's right, and what some poor fecker believed to be "a good pension he worked hard for all his life" can be destroyed at the stroke of a bankster's pen, just like that, if the economic situation goes pear shaped.

But there is a middle ground. Each country needs to start working towards a steady state economy. Each country investing properly in its youth.

Ignore what other countries are doing, just concentrate on getting things right in your own.

22-05-2019 3:24pm

People talk of overpopulation like it's some kind of self inflicted burden imposed on the planet by the third world. Is the real problem here not as least equally down to over consumption in the west? That plus under production, ie arable land being wasted on the likes of tobacco, arguably even sugar, because a handful of people who decide such things can make more money than they can from garden vegetables. We can produce enough food to go around, we just don't.

recedite · 22-05-2019 3:44pm

There is enough food in the world, that is not the problem.
Developed western countries use too much energy, its true. But as time goes by we become more and more energy efficient, and we transfer over to use more renewable energy. We have stable or falling populations. So we are going in the right direction.

The third world/developing countries on the other hand have rapidly expanding populations, and they are no longer satisfied with the frugal lifestyle of their parents and grandparents. Because now they have smartphones and internet, and they can see what they are missing out on.
War and/or mass migration are the results, and these will be ongoing.

Bobblehats · 22-05-2019 4:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

People talk of overpopulation like it's some kind of self inflicted burden imposed on the planet by the third world. Is the real problem here not as least equally down to over consumption in the west? That plus under production, ie arable land being wasted on the likes of tobacco, arguably even sugar, because a handful of people who decide such things can make more money than they can from garden vegetables. We can produce enough food to go around, we just don't.

Not a hope in hell am I giving up my tobacco habit to feed a few more hungry mouths. Not a chance, and I don’t even like brown sugar but why should it arrive a situation where we have to cull the herd. Why should it come down to this.... why is it, that when a flock has grown beyond far beyond it’s levels of sustenance that we feel the need to prolong perpetuate indeed increase this misery instead of allowing the nature to readdress the balance.

.. as the good man Attenborough suggested yep; people need to die and to prioritise human life at all costs is unsustainable and deeply inhumane.

22-05-2019 5:02pm

Bobblehats wrote: »

Not a hope in hell am I giving up my tobacco habit to feed a few more hungry mouths. Not a chance,
.. as the good man Attenborough suggested yep; people need to die and to prioritise human life at all costs is unsustainable and deeply inhumane.

What if the hungry mouth is yours? What if the person who "needs to die" is you?

Bobblehats · 22-05-2019 5:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What if the hungry mouth is yours? What if the person who "needs to die" is you?

If such whatandaboutery ever came to then I would immigrate unto Ireland. Seems like fair game, in order to secure a future for my children and their children and their children too

Alternatively I could just see out my life, maintaining a level of sustenance whilst splurging the urge to reproduce into a johnny pocket. Which I invariably do

micky jammy delahunty · 22-05-2019 5:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

People talk of overpopulation like it's some kind of self inflicted burden imposed on the planet by the third world. Is the real problem here not as least equally down to over consumption in the west? That plus under production, ie arable land being wasted on the likes of tobacco, arguably even sugar, because a handful of people who decide such things can make more money than they can from garden vegetables. We can produce enough food to go around, we just don't.

It's not that simple. Basically, what's happened many times throughout human history, is highly fertile land has been destroyed through farming methods that were productive until the problems kicked in. Something as simple as cutting too many trees on a hillside, can lead to droughts, floods, crops destroyed, fertile topsoil washed away, and basically the creation of uninhabitable environments. The stories in the bible about places being destroyed by God, for one reason or another, the evidence is these places were destroyed through bad farming decisions. So, certain events in the last few decades could simply have come down to the wrong person getting their hands on a chainsaw in the wrong place. Mao's famines were generally the result of some silly idea like cutting down trees to make more room for farm land. But even things that don't seem related, like killing wolves, can trigger an environmental collapse.

micky jammy delahunty · 22-05-2019 5:40pm

recedite wrote: »

That's right, and what some poor fecker believed to be "a good pension he worked hard for all his life" can be destroyed at the stroke of a bankster's pen, just like that, if the economic situation goes pear shaped.

A lot of people got bailed out, and a lot of people got thrown under the bus. And thousands of people in Ireland are now dead as a result of the destruction.

But there is a middle ground. Each country needs to start working towards a steady state economy. Each country investing properly in its youth.

No version of a steady state economy has ever worked anywhere, they all turn out to be disasters. Human history, a man figures out to use a rock like a hammer, eventually discovers some of the stone melts to form iron, makes an iron hammer, etc, the market for rock based hammers dries up. The purpose of every job, is to make someone else's job obsolete.

Ignore what other countries are doing, just concentrate on getting things right in your own.

Unfortunately, they cannot be ignored. We need to sell them what we can, so we can buy what we need and can't produce for ourselves....Most of the time it works out. The crash was something we completely manufactured by ourselves for ourselves...

recedite · 22-05-2019 7:04pm

micky jammy delahunty wrote: »

No version of a steady state economy has ever worked anywhere, they all turn out to be disasters. Human history, a man figures out to use a rock like a hammer, eventually discovers some of the stone melts to form iron, makes an iron hammer, etc, the market for rock based hammers dries up. The purpose of every job, is to make someone else's job obsolete.

That's a misunderstanding of what it means.
Keep an eye on Japan.

The economy grew at an annualised 2.1% in the period, preliminary gross domestic product (GDP) data showed.
That beat analyst expectations for a 0.2% contraction, as imports fell faster than exports.

See that... no great growth in exports, but imports fell faster than exports, resulting in a net profit.
Ireland is exporting massively, but still running a deficit.

Japan has no housing crisis, no mass immigration, and lots of steady jobs.

That very slight growth figure recently is due to increasing their productivity and efficiency, not to a growth in population and consumption.

The crash was something we completely manufactured by ourselves for ourselves...

We were partly to blame, but for every foolish borrower there is a foolish lender. Except they got bailed out.
We could not have done it on our own. You can't get into trouble lending too much money to yourself.

Cull the Herd

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