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Louis Theroux - Mothers on the Edge

1235

Comments

  • #122
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    cozar wrote: »
    i think that a statement like this would make a lot of mums feel inadequate.

    It's an inspiration, the poster didn't say all women should be reaching this goal in order to fulfill their duties as mothers.


  • #123
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Ah, god love them!

    Are you not allowed to admire anyone now in case upsets someone else or something?

    I know, right??


  • #124
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    "I admire this lady I know who has 4 kids and managed to get a Phd" is not the same thing as "any mother of 4 who doesn't have a Phd is clearly just not performing".


  • #125
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 6,996 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    I bet that the woman with the PhD and 4 kids would be the last person to call herself "superwoman". Why should she be praised less just in case someone feels a bit sad that they don't have a PhD? It's just a bit flawed, those who are achieving something should apologize if someone else is unable to. Not only that, but we should pick on them too. It's a wonder more people aren't suffering from mental health issues if they have to try to ignore passive aggressive name calling for working their t*ts off for something.

    TBF I don't think that was what said originally, the point was that in a discussion about a program about women who aren't coping with motherhood at all, it's maybe not the most useful contribution to make.

    I'm sure the poster who mentioned the PhD meant no harm, quite the opposite, but it could be seen as setting the bar excessively high! Not to mention that there's still this traditional dichotomy about women: before we had whore vs madonna, now we have superwoman vs tracksuit Tracy. It seems to me that the original comment feeds into that a little bit.

    But I do hope we aren't going to get sidetracked by what is really an irrelevant aside.


  • #126
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    "I admire this lady I know who has 4 kids and managed to get a Phd" is not the same thing as "any mother of 4 who doesn't have a Phd is clearly just not performing".

    I am sure it wasn't meant as a slight on anyone but it is in a thread about women struggling with post natal problems


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  • #127
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I am sure it wasn't meant as a slight on anyone but it is in a thread about women struggling with post natal problems

    It's a thread about a tv show, not a support group!


  • #128
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    volchitsa wrote: »
    TBF I don't think that was what said originally, the point was that in a discussion about a program about women who aren't coping with motherhood at all, it's maybe not the most useful contribution to make.

    Someone who does a PhD or has a job while being a mother doesn't make them exempt from serious mental health issues, believe me. In my case, it is almost impossible to notice I'm struggling until after I've fallen off the edge of the cliff. My point is that you can be coming from any position and struggle. I'm constantly being knocked by other mothers who don't work when I would never pass any remark/ judgement on what they do or don't do. I'm sick of hearing about how their priority is their child's happiness- like that's a lower priority on the list for me or something :confused::mad:. Do you not think I might find that a bit offensive??


  • #129
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    It's a thread about a tv show, not a support group!

    The TV programme was about post natal depression and psychosis . No idea where you get the support group from ?


  • #130
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 6,996 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Someone who does a PhD or has a job while being a mother doesn't make them exempt from serious mental health issues, believe me. In my case, it is almost impossible to notice I'm struggling until after I've fallen off the edge of the cliff. My point is that you can be coming from any position and struggle. I'm constantly being knocked by other mothers who don't work when I would never pass any remark/ judgement on what they do or don't do. I'm sick of hearing about how their priority is their child's happiness- like that's a lower priority on the list for me or something :confused::mad:.

    Oh I get that completely, I'm a working mother too for one thing, and perhaps more strikingly again, so was my own mother, back in the day when it was unusual for married women to have anything more than a part-time job. I remember when she retired, some of our neighbours making comments to her like "What will you do with yourself all day"" - I said to her "You should have said, the same as you've been doing for the last 20 years since your children left home!" but of course she never did!

    All the same, that original comment (not your reply) struck me as unfortunate.
    Because of the thread it's on, and because of the judgmental stereotypes I mentioned just now.

    But as I say, I don't want to sidetrack the discussion of Louis Theroux's program into yet more judgmentalism about women and motherhood.


  • #131
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 6,996 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    It's a thread about a tv show, not a support group!

    Of course not, but it's a TV show about women suffering from PND and psychosis, so why are we discussing women who go on to do PhDs with 4 children? It's off topic at the very least, and since you never know who may be reading the thread, it may well make someone affected by the issue and who came on here expecting to find a discussion, you know, about the issue, feel more inadequate than they already do. Precisely because they're already feeling vulnerable.

    Be a pity if that stopped someone with some personal experience of the issue from posting about it.


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  • #132
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Of course not, but it's a TV show about women suffering from PND and psychosis, so why are we discussing women who go on to do PhDs with 4 children? It's off topic at the very least, and since you never know who may be reading the thread, it may well make someone affected by the issue and who came on here expecting to find a discussion, you know, about the issue, feel more inadequate than they already do. Precisely because they're already feeling vulnerable.

    Be a pity if that stopped someone with some personal experience of the issue from posting about it.

    You're again exempting the woman with 4 children a a PhD from having mental illness- maybe someone telling her how much they admire her got her through that day- I know if someone praised me like that it would definitely give me a boost during a difficult period.


  • #133
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    You're again exempting the woman with 4 children a a PhD from having mental illness- maybe someone telling her how much they admire her got her through that day- I know if someone praised me like that it would definitely give me a boost during a difficult period.

    We took the post at face value . There was no mention of mental health or any other struggle . Just simply that she did a Ph D . Yeh , good on her but on the face of it no more or less admirable than many others in my opinion


  • #134
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Just simply that she did a Ph D

    Because it's just so simple to do a PhD. Here's a little link for you:

    https://www.businessinsider.nl/phd-students-could-face-significant-mental-health-problems-2017-8/


  • #135
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Because it's just so simple to do a PhD. Here's a little link for you:

    https://www.businessinsider.nl/phd-students-could-face-significant-mental-health-problems-2017-8/

    I didn't say she did a simple PhD . I said he simply stated that she did a PhD .
    I am out now as this is getting silly to be honest with you


  • #136
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 6,996 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    You're again exempting the woman with 4 children a a PhD from having mental illness- maybe someone telling her how much they admire her got her through that day- I know if someone praised me like that it would definitely give me a boost during a difficult period.

    I'm hardly going to invent a scenario that isn't in the post?

    If the poster comes back and tells us that she had four children and a mental illness, and still did a PhD, then we can consider that if you want and say how amazing it is.

    It's still irrelevant to the actual topic here all the same.

    (You know she isn't actually on the thread, this woman, right?)


  • #137
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    You're in cloud cuckoo land Susie. Take a walk around any of the less salubrious areas of Dublin for example and see for yourself the kids being dragged up by absolute wastes of space. Drunks, junkies, recidivist criminals and so on - pure wasters. The kids don't stand a chance, and social services are certainly not riding to their rescue!

    There is zero possibility of anybody causing serious trouble for anyone else by merely saying they're overly fond of the drink or something like that.

    If you can't or won't see why a man couldn't use such a threat as a means to control a woman in an abusive relationship, I can't help you.
    "If you tell them I hit you, I'll tell them you're drinking every night & they'll take the baby off you".
    For such a woman the mere threat of it would be enough to stop her speaking out. It doesn't matter whether the baby would actually be taken or not, the mere suggestion would be enough leverage to further manipulate or intimidate the woman.
    Your claim that there is zero possibility of anybody causing trouble is baseless.
    You think if a man told healthcare professionals that his pregnant partner was downing vodka every night they'd let her skip merrily out the door without a second thought?
    Never mind the fact that it will be recorded permanently on her medical notes.
    Because women are more trustworthy than men?

    When it comes to her own healthcare? Yes, absolutely. Why should a mans word hold higher or even equal value?
    She is the patient, not him.
    Same as I would trust a mans word over a womans if it was his healthcare under question. :confused::confused:


  • #138
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    The TV programme was about post natal depression and psychosis . No idea where you get the support group from ?

    Yes. And this is a thread discussing that show.

    That's my point!


  • #139
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I think it makes perfect sense to ask if the person is safe. Just because someone makes an accusation, doesn't mean you believe it without further thought. "Trust but verify" comes to mind. They can't take anyone's word completely at face value but it still makes sense to ask.

    Just because asking isn't sufficient evidence, doesn't mean they shouldn't ask.

    If someone is in the middle of a mental break, their word isn't very trustworthy anyway. So there has to be a good amount of scepticism.

    The show was very interesting. Very interesting to know that otherwise completely normal people can experience such a change. I felt sorry for the whole family. The little girl (I think she was 6) was taking on way too much responsibility for such a small child. And the men all seemed so super serious. The fun was sucked out of their lives but they seemed to be doing a great job of being a parent and partner.


  • #140
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 6,996 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Yes. And this is a thread discussing that show.

    That's my point!

    A show about how perfectly healthy women can suddenly and disastrously fall apart after childbirth, and how difficult it is for them and their families to cope with that for all sorts of reasons.

    Not a show about parenting with a PhD. :rolleyes:


  • #141
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    volchitsa wrote: »
    A show about how perfectly healthy women can suddenly and disastrously fall apart after childbirth, and how difficult it is for them and their families to cope with that for all sorts of reasons.

    Not a show about parenting with a PhD. :rolleyes:

    The poster in no way intended to upset anyone, he didn't put down or denigrate anybody, he said he found a woman he worked with inspirational - that's all. And fair play to him.

    There's absolutely no need for anyone to be seizing the high ground and berating him for risking harm to fragile women in precarious positions. He said nothing wrong.

    I repeat, this is nothing more than a general chit chat about a television show, which went on harmless little tangent.


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  • #142
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    The poster in no way intended to upset anyone, he didn't put down or denigrate anybody, he said he found a woman he worked with inspirational - that's all. And fair play to him.

    There's absolutely no need for anyone to be seizing the high ground and berating him for risking harm to fragile women in precarious positions. He said nothing wrong.

    I repeat, this is nothing more than a general chit chat about a television show, which went on harmless little tangent.

    No, you are wrong! This is the Internet! You couldn't understand the far reaching consequences of a thread on boards.ie.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #143
    LouD2016
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 229 ✭✭LouD2016


    The main point of starting this thread was to see if there were centres like the one featured in this show in Ireland and about the women in the programme.

    It wasn't to start a competition on who's better than who but thanks for the input :)


  • #144
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    LouD2016 wrote: »
    The main point of starting this thread was to see if there were centres like the one featured in this show in Ireland and about the women in the programme.

    It wasn't to start a competition on who's better than who but thanks for the input :)

    I very much doubt that there are any in Ireland to be honest . One thing I didn't catch though were they private or NHS units in the programme ?
    I imagine women here would be admitted to pyschiatric hospitals and not dedicated mother and baby units . The HSE has an awful lot to learn and are failing our most vulnerable all the time


  • #145
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I very much doubt that there are any in Ireland to be honest . One thing I didn't catch though were they private or NHS units in the programme ?
    I imagine women here would be admitted to pyschiatric hospitals and not dedicated mother and baby units . The HSE has an awful lot to learn and are failing our most vulnerable all the time

    A quick Google suggests the NHS definitely has these services. I don't know whether the units in the show were private or NHS.

    The NHS has problems but it's an absolute miracle of human work and compassion. It's such a shame to see it starved of funds to make sure it fails and can be replaced by private health care.


  • #146
    Gazzmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 816 ✭✭✭Gazzmonkey


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Don’t be silly, of course they can, but the documentary focused on postpartum depression which is not for men

    And Yorkie's not for girls..... what's your point?

    P.S the internet disagrees with you

    http://postpartummen.com/


  • #147
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    A quick Google suggests the NHS definitely has these services. I don't know whether the units in the show were private or NHS.

    The NHS has problems but it's an absolute miracle of human work and compassion. It's such a shame to see it starved of funds to make sure it fails and can be replaced by private health care.

    Thanks , I wasn't sure if the unit was an NHS one or not .
    I presume the HSE is light years behind in this matter


  • #148
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    LouD2016 wrote: »
    Without being rude what has that go to do with things?

    Obviously fair play to her that is amazing.

    Women suffering from PND/PNP don't choose to have it and im sure they would love to be back working and juggling kids and households but they simply cant.

    Some days having a shower is an achievement and that is ok too.

    Say the woman you work with is an inspiration is slightly offensive as there are women, who would love to be that capable, but down to their mental health just cant.

    We cant all be superwomen.
    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Yeh maybe , maybe not . We all struggle in our own way , maybe she had huge support , maybe her partner stayed at home . Maybe she had an au pair , maybe her kids are amazing and well balanced and there again maybe not

    Equally a mother on low income who manages the daily struggle and feeds and clothes and loves her kids is just as much to be admired

    Guys I feel you're way off the mark here. By praising one mother I admire I'm not putting down others. The woman was doing a PhD and gave birth to kids during that time. The stress she suffered was unbelievable. A PhD is one of the most stressful things you can do and she certainly experienced stress, depression and guilt that she was making life harder on her kids. I gave her a little boost because she was inspiring to me. How can that be taken as a bad thing towards anyone else?


  • #149
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Guys I feel you're way off the mark here. By praising one mother I admire I'm not putting down others. The woman was doing a PhD and gave birth to kids during that time. The stress she suffered was unbelievable. A PhD is one of the most stressful things you can do and she certainly experienced stress, depression and guilt that she was making life harder on her kids. I gave her a little boost because she was inspiring to me. How can that be taken as a bad thing towards anyone else?

    It was a weird random thing to add, I don't see the relevance tbh


  • #150
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    volchitsa wrote: »
    A show about how perfectly healthy women can suddenly and disastrously fall apart after childbirth, and how difficult it is for them and their families to cope with that for all sorts of reasons.

    Not a show about parenting with a PhD. :rolleyes:

    I am posting in a thread about a woman I know who did one of the most stressful things you can do with four kids. The thread I'm posting in is about mothers who are on the edge mentally. Why the attacking attitude?


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  • #151
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It was a weird random thing to add, I don't see the relevance tbh

    To be honest ET the only weird and random things are the posts that think it weird or random that a struggling mother of four is praised.


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