Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Improving BER Rating

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,549 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    SozBbz wrote: »
    I wouldnt have any concerns about housed built from 2014 onwards re build quality, its probably the 20 year period before that that would give me issues on that score.

    The issue for me is that 90% of new builds just arent to my personal taste and the density requirements in my preferred area mean that they're all going to be relatively close together, so things that were important to us, like being detached, having side access and a big back garden were unlikely in a new build.

    My OH likes to be able to play music loudly which would not be great in a 3 story terrace. He also has a lot of bikes, so the hosue we bought enables us to have a massive shed at the back of the garden, but still plenty of space. He has side access to bring them in any out (they went through the house in our last place which drove me spare because the walls were in bits)

    All of these factors were more important to us that an energy rating.

    On the subject of the of the value of the BER.... I've not found our new house that bad, although granted its not been extremely cold yet.

    We're getting some work done in the coming weeks to insulate the attic which should help. The windows are double glazed (although some of it older double glazing) I really don't think its going to be that bad.

    Long term plan is to rip the place apart in 5+ years so we'll manage with warm jumpers until then

    got you, i understand there are a 100 factors and stuff like privacy, ability to play loud music, store bikes are as important as anything else.

    for us i think we have the best of both worlds but it wouldnt suite everyone, we have a small estate, everyone moved in at the same time so there is a great community amongst the neighbours but at the same time everyone is respectful of everyone elses privacy. We have side access and a big garden but not all the houses do.

    3 story houses arent for everyone though, for one thing if they are all the same size in sq feet, a bungalow will feel bigger than a two story and a two story will feel bigger than a 3 story. Also 3 stories can be painful with a baby!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Cyrus wrote: »
    again i am speaking in general terms, building regulations now are much more stringent than they were before, therefore in general houses are built to a higher standard.....

    I have the same issue with this as I do with new laws. If there is no enforcement, then standards, and laws are ignored.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Bdjsjsjs


    A lot of posters here have mentioned that high rated homes are not necessary and that hoing to B might be over kill for a retrofit. It's true that a home doesn't have to reach B to be comfortable and I'm not sure retrofitting to B has any payback let alone a good one, however with new regulations we won't have a choice. All renovations that affect over 25 % of a property require the house to reach BER B2.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    aloooof wrote: »
    Apologies if this is off topic, but any ballpark ideas on what it may cost to get a D or E rated house up to B rating? I know it's "how long is a piece of string" territory, but any info you have would be much appreciated. (We're at the beginning of a process of renovation and don't know where to start, so all advice greatly accepted....)

    Not sure if it's possible.

    My house built in the mid 80's was e3 rated.

    I had external insulation along with the attic fully insulated. It brought it up to a D1.

    I wouldn't obsess to much about the rating though. The house is way more comfortable now and I've gone from having the heating on 4-5 hours a day in the current weather to 2 hours a day in total.


  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭gwakamoley


    Not sure if it's possible.

    My house built in the mid 80's was e3 rated.

    I had external insulation along with the attic fully insulated. It brought it up to a D1.

    I wouldn't obsess to much about the rating though. The house is way more comfortable now and I've gone from having the heating on 4-5 hours a day in the current weather to 2 hours a day in total.

    Almost all the houses on this year's Room To Improve managed to get an A rating, and some of them were ancient and kept large parts of the existing house. It's possible if you throw enough money at it and know the big boxes to tick.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Bdjsjsjs wrote: »
    A lot of posters here have mentioned that high rated homes are not necessary and that hoing to B might be over kill for a retrofit. It's true that a home doesn't have to reach B to be comfortable and I'm not sure retrofitting to B has any payback let alone a good one, however with new regulations we won't have a choice. All renovations that affect over 25 % of a property require the house to reach BER B2.

    Is it not an extension of over 25m^2, e.g. non planning exempt? Most renovations don't require planning permission and would affect over 25% of the house quite quickly!

    External insulation and solar water would get me there on my house, but its terraced - detached will be painfully expensive to do for most. Already gone F->C3 with new windows, attic insulation and heating work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    gwakamoley wrote: »
    Almost all the houses on this year's Room To Improve managed to get an A rating, and some of them were ancient and kept large parts of the existing house. It's possible if you throw enough money at it and know the big boxes to tick.

    Yep, well i think its the law now that if you're doing a substantial enough extention, that you have to bring the whole house up to an B standard.

    On Room to Improve, I think some of the houses were retrofitted to A standard to avail of grants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Yes but in a lot of those property programs people throw money that they will never get back in energy savings, at these things, then go bust and lose a ton of money.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Bdjsjsjs


    L1011 wrote: »
    Is it not an extension of over 25m^2, e.g. non planning exempt? Most renovations don't require planning permission and would affect over 25% of the house quite quickly!

    External insulation and solar water would get me there on my house, but its terraced - detached will be painfully expensive to do for most. Already gone F->C3 with new windows, attic insulation and heating work.
    Could be! Hopefully someone here will clarify, either way it is a rule of consequence. There is fear this rule will greatly damage the external insulation industry.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Bdjsjsjs wrote: »
    A lot of posters here have mentioned that high rated homes are not necessary and that hoing to B might be over kill for a retrofit. It's true that a home doesn't have to reach B to be comfortable and I'm not sure retrofitting to B has any payback let alone a good one, however with new regulations we won't have a choice. All renovations that affect over 25 % of a property require the house to reach BER B2.

    I had heard talk of this previously, but has this regulation actually come in now?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    aloooof wrote: »
    I had heard talk of this previously, but has this regulation actually come in now?

    From November according to this Irish Times article


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Ah it's a bit of mumbo jumbo isn't it really though?
    We got our house from an E to a C1 by replacing windows and boiler.

    We got it from a C to a B by taking out the lightbulbs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,412 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    pwurple wrote: »
    Ah it's a bit of mumbo jumbo isn't it really though?
    We got our house from an E to a C1 by replacing windows and boiler.

    We got it from a C to a B by taking out the lightbulbs.

    Yeah, that's true... Its is a box ticking excercise rather than an actual tested efficency report,
    But changing windows and replacing the boiler are fairly big expense, and (probably) big result items, attic insulation, led lights and say a lagging jacket are fairly low cost, reasonably easy items, that can still have a big result...And are well worth while.

    You might go for solar hot water, or photovoltaic, which could get you an another boost but not really get a return on investment...
    In general airtightness (and then controllable ventilation), and insulation (and controllable heating) are gonna get you a return, improve your rating and most important, make your house more comfortable.

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Bdjsjsjs


    pwurple wrote: »
    Ah it's a bit of mumbo jumbo isn't it really though?
    We got our house from an E to a C1 by replacing windows and boiler.

    We got it from a C to a B by taking out the lightbulbs.
    The worry is that you might have a situation where people want to get a big retrofit like external wall insulation but it wont bring the house to Ber B so therefore the retrofit won't happen


  • Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭Whipping Boy


    ZX7R wrote: »
    As Paul said insulation is key upgraded burner to a condenser is vital and surprisingly proper vent covers are things that will jump your rating right up


    Just to pick up on this...do you have an example of proper vent covers? Can they bought online? We bought a house last year (D1 rated, circa 2000) and would be interested in ensuring the vents are up to scratch...Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,344 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Just to pick up on this...do you have an example of proper vent covers? Can they bought online? We bought a house last year (D1 rated, circa 2000) and would be interested in ensuring the vents are up to scratch...Thanks

    I can't understand what they are saying here. Vent covers are not something that can really be advanced other than closing correctly. One of the issues with older houses is the air vent is just a hole in the wall with covers either side. They really should have a baffle so it is not a direct hole.

    Others mentioned air tightness as the highest priority but that doesn't make sense either. You need some sort of ventilation system in place for that to make sense. That is expensive and difficult to retrofit. It also depends on the materials used in the property for air tightness to be viable. Some materials need to breath and if you prevent that they either fail or can get fungus due to lack of air.

    A standard BER will not test for air tightness either. Insulation and hearing systems are the main things for comfort and good rating.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Bdjsjsjs


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    I can't understand what they are saying here. Vent covers are not something that can really be advanced other than closing correctly. One of the issues with older houses is the air vent is just a hole in the wall with covers either side. They really should have a baffle so it is not a direct hole.

    Others mentioned air tightness as the highest priority but that doesn't make sense either. You need some sort of ventilation system in place for that to make sense. That is expensive and difficult to retrofit. It also depends on the materials used in the property for air tightness to be viable. Some materials need to breath and if you prevent that they either fail or can get fungus due to lack of air.

    A standard BER will not test for air tightness either. Insulation and hearing systems are the main things for comfort and good rating.
    i think the requirement for airtightness is becoming more common with recent legislation no?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    ZX7R wrote: »
    As Paul said insulation is key upgraded burner to a condenser is vital and surprisingly proper vent covers are things that will jump your rating right up

    Could you link to more efficient vent covers please?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Just to pick up on this...do you have an example of proper vent covers? Can they bought online? We bought a house last year (D1 rated, circa 2000) and would be interested in ensuring the vents are up to scratch...Thanks

    I should've read to the end of the thread :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,344 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Bdjsjsjs wrote: »
    i think the requirement for airtightness is becoming more common with recent legislation no?

    The thing is that relates to new builds and not part of the standard BER evaluation. I am assuming this thread is about existing properties and not bew builds. Older buildings need to breath and making them airtight would be damaging.

    Georgian buildings can really be messed up by using modern materials. Modern plasters on these building causes major damp issues as the buildings were designed for lime plaster. It isn't even building that old. Houses from the 80s would get condensation in the cavity walls and soak insulation there if made airtight. Same applies to joists and roof spaces where ventilation is required to keep the timber healthy.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    The thing is that relates to new builds and not part of the standard BER evaluation. I am assuming this thread is about existing properties and not bew builds. Older buildings need to breath and making them airtight would be damaging.

    Georgian buildings can really be messed up by using modern materials. Modern plasters on these building causes major damp issues as the buildings were designed for lime plaster. It isn't even building that old. Houses from the 80s would get condensation in the cavity walls and soak insulation there if made airtight. Same applies to joists and roof spaces where ventilation is required to keep the timber healthy.

    I agree with your point on the older lime mortar / render structures needing special consideration but your comment on buildings from the 80's is inaccurate. Yes, they will suffer internally if appropriate ventilation is not supplied post air tightening works but to say that damp cavities are caused by air tightening the building is not correct.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Could you link to more efficient vent covers please?

    I think these are the ones: https://www.aereco.ie/products/air-inlets-ie/eht/ but I've yet to find them available to purchase online


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I think these are the ones: https://www.aereco.ie/products/air-inlets-ie/eht/ but I've yet to find them available to purchase online

    I have bought all mine through heat merchants but had to call them


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Alkers wrote: »
    I have bought all mine through heat merchants but had to call them

    Can you remember what they cost?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Can you remember what they cost?

    About 110e each I think and then I got one more individually and they had to charge me 25e extra on top of the price which had gone up so cost me nearly 150e for that one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Yikes, that's pricey for what they are!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,344 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Yikes, that's pricey for what they are!

    It certainly is as it is just a convenient way to skip proper construction of an air vent that just needs a cover.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Yikes, that's pricey for what they are!

    Yes, and on reflection - an vent that can be opened and closed is all that's needed for a bedroom IF you have the discipline to close it when unoccupied and open it again when you get back. We have gone with standard vents in the high occupancy rooms e,g, kitchen


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I really thought a vent cover with a good seal that opened and closed based on the humidity would be about €30 a pop. It seems a very simple thing!

    Personally, I'm looking to replace the crap "hit and miss" vent covers we have that do nothing to block draughts even if they're closed with some that will only open as and when required (i.e. when humidity levels are high in the room).


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I really thought a vent cover with a good seal that opened and closed based on the humidity would be about €30 a pop. It seems a very simple thing!

    Personally, I'm looking to replace the crap "hit and miss" vent covers we have that do nothing to block draughts even if they're closed with some that will only open as and when required (i.e. when humidity levels are high in the room).

    The aereco units don't seal fully either so if it's very draughty, they might not solve your problem. Although they do "diffuse" the airflow before the section that opens and closes - my terminology :o

    Also, they are not designed to be passive vents, they are intended to be used with continuously running extracts (at variable speeds) in high humidity rooms. These fans reduce the air pressure inside the house so air is sucked in through the vent. This is supposed to be achieved by the centrally ducted aereco extractors but we have just gone for humidity controlled stand alone extractors in those rooms.


Advertisement