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Dublin GAA Discussion Thread - Capital Punishment

12467…334

Comments

  • #92
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,698 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    12 weeks for Dermo is fair enough in my book as long as the GAA are consistent throughout the summer. What we have now is that any time someone touches (in any manner whatsoever) a ref or one of those planks on the sidelines then it's 12 weeks, end of.

    If course what will happen, as always does, is that the inconsistency rules within the GAA. We'll see people pulling and dragging out of refs all summer and not a peep about it.

    If he gets the full 12 weeks then he'd be better off tipping over to the states for the summer and forgetting about this year.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #93
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,698 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    mountgomery burns wrote: »
    I dunno what the linesman has to do with players getting off the ball treatment? Shove the player then, not the linesman. The rule is clear, until its changed it should be enforced.

    I don't think the referee not implementing it at the time is a good excuse for it not being enforced retrospectively. All the examples of players getting off the ball treatment notably here by those defending Connollys actions are from counties outside of Dublin. There can be no doubt that Dublins principal markers are just as guilty as anyone of dishing out said rough treatment though.

    Fair enough if you think its an issue, but it should be a point separate to whether Connolly is banned or not. In light of Comerfords ban for Tipp, I think the GAA have no choice but to enforce the same ban or I would think justifiably we are not dealing with a level playing field.

    The GAA undoubtedly have made plenty of mistakes and bad calls when dealing with punishments in the past, but that's completely irrelevant to current cases. Enforce the rules, and in this instance the rule is clear. I would acknowledge though it is a harsh rule for somebody to be missing an entire summer for something that was minor, depending of course on what was said to the linesman.

    What's very clear from going to games is that there is a referee, 2 linesmen and 4 umpires at every game and between them they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. The ref has a lot on his plate in fairness but the others are worse than useless and couldn't make a decision between them if their lives depended on it. I mean how many times do you see an incident from the stands as clear as day and one of those tulips could be 10 yards from it and they look like a rabbit in the headlights.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #94
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    JRant wrote: »
    12 weeks for Dermo is fair enough in my book as long as the GAA are consistent throughout the summer. What we have now is that any time someone touches (in any manner whatsoever) a ref or one of those planks on the sidelines then it's 12 weeks, end of.

    No we don't and no it isn't.

    If someone approaches a linesman/ref aggressively, while shouting and pointing their finger at them, then pushes them away dismissively in the chest, then we will have the same situation again. If someone is daft enough to do that then they deserve to be banned and that will be 12 weeks.

    If someone leaves a hand on the refs arm while speaking to him, or tips him on the arm to get his attention, we 100% do not have the same situation again, and it 100% will not be a 12 week ban, or a ban of any description, be that Diarmuid Connolly or anyone else.

    Your attitude seems to be that you want to now ruin the game for everyone else, because you had a player rightly banned. Were you one of those kids that took his football in home when he didn't get a free kick?


  • #95
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    The rule states "minor physical interference" not aggression or anything of the sort


  • #96
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    The rule states "minor physical interference" not aggression or anything of the sort

    Ah come on now. Next you're going to say that every player that shakes hands with a referee at the start of the game deserves to get 12 weeks.


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  • #97
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Ah come on now. Next you're going to say that every player that shakes hands with a referee at the start of the game deserves to get 12 weeks.

    No, but thats what the rule says. If a referee is running past you and you grab his arm that is interference.

    I would like to see more black cards given for abuse of referees and for them to really use this as a spur to clamp down on that ****e


  • #98
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    The rule states "minor physical interference" not aggression or anything of the sort

    Yes it does. But tipping a guy on the shoulder/arm is not physical interference, it is getting the guys attention in a recognised fashion. The same way if a player turned quickly and accidentally crossed paths with the ref, and instinctively put out their arm to prevent a collision, they wouldnt get 12 weeks either.
    Mcmahon is forever plamausing refs with the old hand on the arm technique. Should i assume that if and when he does so again you will be calling for a 12 week ban?


  • #99
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,698 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    No we don't and no it isn't.

    If someone approaches a linesman/ref aggressively, while shouting and pointing their finger at them, then pushes them away dismissively in the chest, then we will have the same situation again. If someone is daft enough to do that then they deserve to be banned and that will be 12 weeks.

    If someone leaves a hand on the refs arm while speaking to him, or tips him on the arm to get his attention, we 100% do not have the same situation again, and it 100% will not be a 12 week ban, or a ban of any description, be that Diarmuid Connolly or anyone else.

    Your attitude seems to be that you want to now ruin the game for everyone else, because you had a player rightly banned. Were you one of those kids that took his football in home when he didn't get a free kick?

    Nonsense. I don't want to ruin the game or anything of the sort, I want consistency.

    What does the rule book say about tipping a ref exactly? The GAA have now made a rod for their own back that they either see through or do what they invariably do a fudge the issue. The rules clearly state any physical contact, be that grabbing an arm or grabbing their face ala O'Connor style should be an automatic 12 week ban and I'm including all counties in that, the Dubs included.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #100
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,153 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    JRant wrote: »
    Nonsense. I don't want to ruin the game or anything of the sort, I want consistency.

    What does the rule book say about tipping a ref exactly? The GAA have now made a rod for their own back that they either see through or do what they invariably do a fudge the issue. The rules clearly state any physical contact, be that grabbing an arm or grabbing their face ala O'Connor style should be an automatic 12 week ban and I'm including all counties in that, the Dubs included.

    I agree, there most certainly will be more high-profile incidents where there is "minor physical interference" with the referee later in the summer. A 12-week ban at that stage could rule a player out of the latter stages of the All-Ireland and the his county's club championship. You will certainly hear complaints about the severity then.


  • #101
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,698 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I agree, there most certainly will be more high-profile incidents where there is "minor physical interference" with the referee later in the summer. A 12-week ban at that stage could rule a player out of the latter stages of the All-Ireland and the his county's club championship. You will certainly hear complaints about the severity then.

    Oh no doubt about it. Then we'll get the usual "he's not that type of player" "it's an amateur game" etc etc. To be honest I hope they do follow it through and the refs get more respect but I also want to see incompetent refs gone from the game as well. There are too many yahoos reffing games these days pretty much making it up as they go along.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • #102
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,698 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Ah come on now. Next you're going to say that every player that shakes hands with a referee at the start of the game deserves to get 12 weeks.

    Shaking hands with someone is a voluntary motion carried out by both parties, grabbing an arm is interfering with the other person in a physical manner so the 2 are completely different scenarios.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #103
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    JRant wrote: »
    Nonsense. I don't want to ruin the game or anything of the sort, I want consistency.

    What does the rule book say about tipping a ref exactly? The GAA have now made a rod for their own back that they either see through or do what they invariably do a fudge the issue. The rules clearly state any physical contact, be that grabbing an arm or grabbing their face ala O'Connor style should be an automatic 12 week ban and I'm including all counties in that, the Dubs included.

    No actually you are trying to make a rod for the gaa's back, mainly down to the noticeable level of b*tt-hurt in your posts on the subject, ultimately because it is an important Dublin player who has gotten banned, regardless of the fact that is was for something he deserves to be banned for.

    If a player politely tips a ref on the arm to get his attention, like McMahon so often does, there should not, and will not be any 12 week bans. The rules do not state 'any physical contact'. That would be ridiculous. If you cannot see the difference between the two, that's your problem.

    Also, I get it that the Dubs tow the party line on such things - it undermines their objectivity completely but they don't seem to mind; fair enough, that is their business. But if you honestly believe that O'Connor should be banned for what is happening in that picture, then genuinely, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.


  • #104
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,698 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    No actually you are trying to make a rod for the gaa's back, mainly down to the noticeable level of b*tt-hurt in your posts on the subject, ultimately because it is an important Dublin player who has gotten banned, regardless of the fact that is was for something he deserves to be banned for.

    If a player politely tips a ref on the arm to get his attention, like McMahon so often does, there should not, and will not be any 12 week bans. The rules do not state 'any physical contact'. That would be ridiculous. If you cannot see the difference between the two, that's your problem.

    Also, I get it that the Dubs tow the party line on such things - it undermines their objectivity completely but they don't seem to mind; fair enough, that is their business. But if you honestly believe that O'Connor should be banned for what is happening in that picture, then genuinely, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

    Every year the GAA start out the summer with a clamp down of one sort or another and after a few weeks it's completely forgotten about. They have previous on this front and for once I'd like to see them follow through on something. If they are serious about this 12 week layoff then yes O'Connor should most definitely get the full ban if he does it again. Grabbing a ref by the face is completely unacceptable as is a Dublin player grabbing a ref by the arm.

    You see, my only issue with this is consistency. I couldn't care less if Dermo sits on his arse for 12 weeks. He's been walking a tightrope for long enough now and quite frankly I'm fed up of hearing about him running foul of the rules. What the game is crying out for is a consistent approach by all refs but sadly we are nowhere near that, not even close.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #105
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    JRant wrote: »
    Every year the GAA start out the summer with a clamp down of one sort or another and after a few weeks it's completely forgotten about. They have previous on this front and for once I'd like to see them follow through on something. If they are serious about this 12 week layoff then yes O'Connor should most definitely get the full ban if he does it again. Grabbing a ref by the face is completely unacceptable as is a Dublin player grabbing a ref by the arm.

    You see, my only issue with this is consistency. I couldn't care less if Dermo sits on his arse for 12 weeks. He's been walking a tightrope for long enough now and quite frankly I'm fed up of hearing about him running foul of the rules. What the game is crying out for is a consistent approach by all refs but sadly we are nowhere near that, not even close.

    He didn't grab him by the face though. Obviously he didn't, because if he had, he would have gotten in serious trouble for an act like that - probably more than 12 weeks. Repeat it all you want, it didn't happen.

    In fact all you can see for sure in this famous photo is that the ref has oconnor by the back of the neck. You cant actually see if o'connors hand is even touching the refs face, or is just in front of it, due to the angle of the photo. However, what is obvious is there is no grabbing action anywhere in the photo. Again, keep saying it all you want, it doesn't make it true, and anyone with any bit of objectivity can see that. It is just a shame that there is no Dublin fan willing to put their head above the parapet and call out this photo in all it's painful cringiness.


  • #106
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,153 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    He didn't grab him by the face though. Obviously he didn't, because if he had, he would have gotten in serious trouble for an act like that - probably more than 12 weeks. Repeat it all you want, it didn't happen.

    In fact all you can see for sure in this famous photo is that the ref has oconnor by the back of the neck. You cant actually see if o'connors hand is even touching the refs face, or is just in front of it, due to the angle of the photo. However, what is obvious is there is no grabbing action anywhere in the photo. Again, keep saying it all you want, it doesn't make it true, and anyone with any bit of objectivity can see that. It is just a shame that there is no Dublin fan willing to put their head above the parapet and call out this photo in all it's painful cringiness.

    If you had some counter-evidence that would be useful. Saying a photo doesn't mean what it looks like doesn't get you very far without some alternative evidence.


  • #107
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    JRant wrote: »
    Every year the GAA start out the summer with a clamp down of one sort or another and after a few weeks it's completely forgotten about. They have previous on this front and for once I'd like to see them follow through on something. If they are serious about this 12 week layoff then yes O'Connor should most definitely get the full ban if he does it again. Grabbing a ref by the face is completely unacceptable as is a Dublin player grabbing a ref by the arm.
    Have a look at the incident:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a_2-tERtd8#t=115m49s
    Deegan puts his arm around O'Connor before O'Connor does the same to Deegan. And he doesn't grab him by the face at all. Trying to make it seem like this is anywhere remotely close to what Connolly did is ludicrous quite frankly.


  • #108
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Have a look at the incident:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a_2-tERtd8#t=115m49s
    Deegan puts his arm around O'Connor before O'Connor does the same to Deegan. And he doesn't grab him by the face at all. Trying to make it seem like this is anywhere remotely close to what Connolly did is ludicrous quite frankly.

    Connolly didn't actually do all that much either of we are all honest, 12 weeks is OTT


  • #109
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If you had some counter-evidence that would be useful. Saying a photo doesn't mean what it looks like doesn't get you very far without some alternative evidence.

    Well Id like to see some actual evidence first before I need to produce counter evidence. The picture in question shows contact on oconnors neck from the refs hand - a bit weird but fair enough, contact between both of their forearms - which could be completely accidental - and oconnors' hand in front of the ref's face, with no contact apparent. There is no indent in the skin on the refs face from where oconnor's hand is supposedly grabbing it and he doesn't seem to be uncomfortable in any way in the photo. His only concern appears to be hearing what the player is trying to tell him. So get me the actual proof that he has a hold of the guy's face first, or even touching his face, before I have to counter it...

    Edit: What hammer archer has posted has in fact confirmed what I have stated - he doesn't touch his face at all. Funny enough, Philly McMahon sticks his finger into the refs face accusingly in the middle of it. Black card at least - consistency, right?


  • #110
    DoctaDee
    Registered Users Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭DoctaDee


    giphy.gif


  • #111
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    Connolly didn't actually do all that much either of we are all honest, 12 weeks is OTT

    I actually disagree man, players cant be allowed to carry on like that regardless of how good they are. Right or wrong, the officials have to be shown respect. Officials aren't going to get everything right and it sets a really bad precedent if he were to be let go. As paidi o'se said, 'like you would catch a loaf of bread and f* it over the line', that is the kind of attitude that Connolly showed towards the linesman and it is just nasty. There is no need for it.
    We hear about good players needing protection, well the officials need it first and foremost.


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  • #112
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,698 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Have a look at the incident:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a_2-tERtd8#t=115m49s
    Deegan puts his arm around O'Connor before O'Connor does the same to Deegan. And he doesn't grab him by the face at all. Trying to make it seem like this is anywhere remotely close to what Connolly did is ludicrous quite frankly.

    I'll boil it down to its simplest form as I'm obviously losing some of you. Any altercation that involves, grabbing, holding etc of a ref or lineman has to be a 12 week ban if there is to be any consistency. That's it. I couldn't give a flying shïte about O'Connor or Dermo for that matter. I don't care if an arm around the shoulder, the GAA have laid down this marker so lets see if they hold firm. And for the record, one more time, I agree with it as long as they are consistent.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #113
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,698 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    I actually disagree man, players cant be allowed to carry on like that regardless of how good they are. Right or wrong, the officials have to be shown respect. Officials aren't going to get everything right and it sets a really bad precedent if he were to be let go. As paidi o'se said, 'like you would catch a loaf of bread and f* it over the line', that is the kind of attitude that Connolly showed towards the linesman and it is just nasty. There is no need for it.
    We hear about good players needing protection, well the officials need it first and foremost.

    The officials need a kick up the jacksee if you ask me.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #114
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    JRant wrote: »
    I'll boil it down to its simplest form as I'm obviously losing some of you. Any altercation that involves, grabbing, holding etc of a ref or lineman has to be a 12 week ban if there is to be any consistency. That's it. I couldn't give a flying shïte about O'Connor or Dermo for that matter. I don't care if an arm around the shoulder, the GAA have laid down this marker so lets see if they hold firm. And for the record, one more time, I agree with it as long as they are consistent.

    I think we should just leave things as they already are. Therefore what Connolly done is a 12 week ban and what O'connor did is nothing. That's the common sense approach. Sorry but I think the only side issue is the referee not sending off Connolly. I think beyond that this case is cut and dried.


  • #115
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    I actually disagree man, players cant be allowed to carry on like that regardless of how good they are. Right or wrong, the officials have to be shown respect. Officials aren't going to get everything right and it sets a really bad precedent if he were to be let go. As paidi o'se said, 'like you would catch a loaf of bread and f* it over the line', that is the kind of attitude that Connolly showed towards the linesman and it is just nasty. There is no need for it.
    We hear about good players needing protection, well the officials need it first and foremost.

    So bad he wasn't sent off for it at the time.

    It's not good and I don't really care about the ban, but I hope it leads to a zero tolerance approach to intimidation of referees


  • #116
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,698 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    I think we should just leave things as they already are. Therefore what Connolly done is a 12 week ban and what O'connor did is nothing. That's the common sense approach. Sorry but I think the only side issue is the referee not sending off Connolly. I think beyond that this case is cut and dried.

    I agree, he should have walked at the time. This shows the level of incompetence that is in the game.

    Well you know what they say about common sense, it's not that common at all. The line has been drawn and needs to be continued.

    The problem with allowing a common sense approach is that we end up with ridiculous things happening like in the Galway/Dublin game a few weeks ago. Canning clearly struck a player in the head accidentally but the rules make no allowances for that and he should have got the line but the ref applied common sense and just booked him after clearly seeing it. Then a few minutes later he gives O'Callighan the line for a second yellow when he couldn't have seen what happened as it was a ruck ball and the forward just tripped over his own feet, so no common sense was applied there.

    It's bloody infuriating and it's happening up and down the country on a regular basis.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #117
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    So bad he wasn't sent off for it at the time.

    It's not good and I don't really care about the ban, but I hope it leads to a zero tolerance approach to intimidation of referees

    So what if he wasnt sent off at the time? Refs get things wrong or miss them altogether. Hence the need for the cccc and the various other appeals committees in the first place...

    I agree on the zero tolerance approach. Its a real lowpoint of our game. Connolly waving the card in the refs face in last years final made for poor viewing. Rightly he should have gotten a black along with his playmate and be done with the two of them. Who knows, if he had maybe he wouldnt have reacted like he did this time..


  • #118
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,447 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    JRant wrote: »
    The officials need a kick up the jacksee if you ask me.

    Referees aren't stupid. If they took on board the sort of advice given out here they would be sending off 10 players in every game. And I have seen games where they would have been justified in sending off 10 players for just one mass brawl.

    But they know if they took that approach they would be targeted for even more abuse by the fans. And especially by the pundits armed with their camera replays to condemn the officials for not seeing something which is so obvious when slowed down and viewed from three different angles on TV.

    Instances of physical interference with officials are rare because the players know they will get a minimum 12 weeks suspension. They indulge in all the other nonsense because safety in numbers means that only a small number will be sanctioned in any game, and the worst that will happen is a short suspension.


  • #119
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    So what if he wasnt sent off at the time? Refs get things wrong or miss them altogether. Hence the need for the cccc and the various other appeals committees in the first place...

    I agree on the zero tolerance approach. Its a real lowpoint of our game. Connolly waving the card in the refs face in last years final made for poor viewing. Rightly he should have gotten a black along with his playmate and be done with the two of them. Who knows, if he had maybe he wouldnt have reacted like he did this time..

    The linesman cannot miss getting pushed to be fair, he obviously didn't think it warranted a sending off or bringing it to the referees attention

    Anyways ban has been given and he will serve it


  • #120
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    The linesman cannot miss getting pushed to be fair, he obviously didn't think it warranted a sending off or bringing it to the referees attention

    Anyways ban has been given and he will serve it

    True he cant miss it. But it isn't the same as spotting a double hop or something mundane like that, when the incident is actually a physical altercation involving himself. He is no longer a viewer of proceedings, but rather thrown into the middle of them. It is understandable that he was probably a bit thrown by the whole thing.

    Brolly was going on like he should be a robot about the whole thing, when in reality he was probably thinking 'christ almighty what the f*ck am i going to do now!'


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  • #121
    DoctaDee
    Registered Users Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭DoctaDee


    No appeal from DC, confirmed by RTE.. nothing to see here..


This discussion has been closed.
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