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Rent Freeze - the mechanics of

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Comments

  • #392
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Zulu wrote: »
    Who's been "creaming it for years"? Or is that your own quote?

    Nope...
    Jo Satan wrote: »
    ...
    If you are mortgage free suck it up, you have been creaming it for years.
    Reduced income is a fact of life these days....

    At the risk being accused of miss-quoting. Granted some will be over leveraged. But they can't ALL be all highly profitable AND in crisis. Considering most have only one property and for a long time.


  • #393
    dogbert27
    Registered Users Posts: 4,893 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    Jo Satan wrote: »
    By the sounds of it most landlords expect their rent to be paid in full regardless of their tenants ability to pay.

    Nope, most of the landlords who have posted here over the last few days have said they are open to finding solutions for their tenants.

    What is unfair is calling your landlord the day before rent is due to say your not going to pay your rent tomorrow because you've moved home to your parents house who expect you to pay rent there and you want to pay them instead of the landlord with whom you have a contract with.

    Or asking your landlord on a Saturday if you can pay less. Landlord being stuck in the spot says okay and only receives a third of the rent leaving the landlord immediately stuck with finding the money from somewhere.

    Landlords are people too with bills to pay and families to feed and are struggling in these times.


  • #394
    Jo Satan
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭Jo Satan


    dogbert27 wrote: »
    Nope, most of the landlords who have posted here over the last few days have said they are open to finding solutions for their tenants.

    What is unfair is calling your landlord the day before rent is due to say your not going to pay your rent tomorrow because you've moved home to your parents house who expect you to pay rent there and you want to pay them instead of the landlord with whom you have a contract with.

    Or asking your landlord on a Saturday if you can pay less. Landlord being stuck in the spot says okay and only receives a third of the rent leaving the landlord immediately stuck with finding the money from somewhere.

    Landlords are people too with bills to pay and families to feed and are struggling in these times.

    Most Landlords, but not you.

    You have stated that your tenants should get the covid-19 payments of €350 per week and their total of €700 per week would almost cover the rent.
    Your tenants have financial problems forcing them to ask you for leniency and your reply was sufficiently firm to make them find your rent regardless.
    So assuming they have no other income they are surviving on savings whilst you use their emergency covid-19 payment to continue paying the mortgage on your investment.
    I imagine their savings would be paltry after paying €2800 plus per month in rent.


  • #395
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Jo Satan wrote: »
    You have stated that your tenants should get the covid-19 payments of €350 per week and their total of €700 per week would almost cover the rent.
    Jo Satan wrote: »
    I imagine their savings would be paltry after paying €2800 plus per month in rent.


    I read the post differently.

    i.e. €700 would almost cover the months rent.
    dogbert27 wrote: »
    Are they applying for the COVID-19 unemployment payment of €350 a week each which will give them €700 a week which is nearly the months rent.


  • #396
    dogbert27
    Registered Users Posts: 4,893 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    Jo Satan wrote: »
    Most Landlords, but not you.

    You have stated that your tenants should get the covid-19 payments of €350 per week and their total of €700 per week would almost cover the rent.
    Your tenants have financial problems forcing them to ask you for leniency and your reply was sufficiently firm to make them find your rent regardless.
    So assuming they have no other income they are surviving on savings whilst you use their emergency covid-19 payment to continue paying the mortgage on your investment.
    I imagine their savings would be paltry after paying €2800 plus per month in rent.

    You seem to believe every tenant in the country is paying big Dublin rents.

    The rent is €1000 which doesn't cover the full mortgage. I cover the rest myself. I also have my own mortgage and bills to pay.

    I was out of work for 5 weeks last year. I had to use my savings to pay my mortgage, loans, electricity bills, put food on the table, etc.


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  • #397
    serox_21
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭serox_21


    Jo Satan wrote: »
    Most Landlords, but not you.
    So assuming they have no other income they are surviving on savings whilst you use their emergency covid-19 payment to continue paying the mortgage on your investment.
    I imagine their savings would be paltry after paying €2800 plus per month in rent.


    This is what savings are? For hard times like this.

    You are paying for a service. When you are out of income you use your savings to pay for daily life expenses. Rent is one of this expenses. If you can't afford then don't use that service.


  • #398
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,434 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Jo Satan wrote: »
    Most Landlords, but not you.

    You have stated that your tenants should get the covid-19 payments of €350 per week and their total of €700 per week would almost cover the rent.
    Your tenants have financial problems forcing them to ask you for leniency and your reply was sufficiently firm to make them find your rent regardless.
    So assuming they have no other income they are surviving on savings whilst you use their emergency covid-19 payment to continue paying the mortgage on your investment.
    I imagine their savings would be paltry after paying €2800 plus per month in rent.

    I think you need to read posts properly before going on a rant and misquoting people in here.


  • #399
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    serox_21 wrote: »
    This is what savings are? For hard times like this.

    You are paying for a service. When you are out of income you use your savings to pay for daily life expenses. Rent is one of this expenses. If you can't afford then don't use that service.




    I would agree with you there, but some people are not good at saving. people have been given permission to not pay their rent for 3 months. They are going to use it.

    I think it will probably get extended too.


  • #400
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It pissed me off hearing that a landlord describe themselves as providing a service. Pat yourself on the back. In this day and age, its more like hoarding a scarce essential resource /rant


  • #401
    serox_21
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭serox_21


    They are using limited resources(houses) to provide a service at way to high prices(for average income) because there is demand.


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  • #402
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It pissed me off hearing that a landlord describe themselves as providing a service. Pat yourself on the back. In this day and age, its more like hoarding a scarce essential resource /rant


    My belief is that there will be mass sell offs in the next year or so by private landlords. People leaving, rents going down, rent freezes and now what amounts to rent forgiveness. As people exit their rental property their landlords will want out i think. And many will bail out now as soon as their tenant leaves.



    The only card left on the table at this point is to prevent evicting tenants for sale of property. When that comes in landlords will have no choice but to stay in the market and take whatever medicine is coming to them. So many will bail out before that is a reality. And that reality of having to only sellf with a tenant in the property is very close now imo.


  • #403
    Hubertj
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Hubertj


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    My belief is that there will be mass sell offs in the next year or so by private landlords. People leaving, rents going down, rent freezes and now what amounts to rent forgiveness. As people exit their rental property their landlords will want out i think. And many will bail out now as soon as their tenant leaves.



    The only card left on the table at this point is to prevent evicting tenants for sale of property. When that comes in landlords will have no choice but to stay in the market and take whatever medicine is coming to them. So many will bail out before that is a reality. And that reality of having to only sellf with a tenant in the property is very close now imo.

    how will someone buy an apartment with tenants in situ if banks wont grant mortgages on BTLs with tenants in situ? what do you mean whatever medicine is coming to them? Im not a landlord but you sounds very bitter about things. What about the constitutionality of what you propose about preventing someone exercise their rights over the property they own?


  • #404
    eleventh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    JimmyVik wrote:
    ..and now what amounts to rent forgiveness.
    It's not rent forgiveness though is it? It's allowing people to pay in arrears if they need to.


  • #405
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Hubertj wrote: »
    how will someone buy an apartment with tenants in situ if banks wont grant mortgages on BTLs with tenants in situ? what do you mean whatever medicine is coming to them? Im not a landlord but you sounds very bitter about things. What about the constitutionality of what you propose about preventing someone exercise their rights over the property they own?


    Im not your enemy here. Enough with the assumptions about me.

    OK, for a start I have no skin in the game.

    I am just pointing out the facts as I see them.

    Im not bitter at all.
    I actually see it from both the landlords POV and the tenants POV.
    I know what tenants would like. I know the government dont give a sh1t about landlords.

    I also know enough about business to know that being a landlord is not viable for the vast majority of them right now. And I also know that the more rules you put on them the more they will want to get out. And that the government are happy to put more and more hurt on residential landlords.



    Nobody will care about who can buy it with a tenant in it. That rule is the last one left in the arsenal. And it is coming very soon.

    Thats why any sane landlord will be getting out ASAP.


  • #406
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I would agree with you there, but some people are not good at saving. people have been given permission to not pay their rent for 3 months. They are going to use it.

    I think it will probably get extended too.

    Another entitled poster.

    What are you on about by, people have being given permission to not pay rent for 3 months, you haven't a clue what your on about.

    Just because some people blow their money every month doesn't mean that the landlord picks up the tap for them.


  • #407
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    My belief is that there will be mass sell offs in the next year or so by private landlords. People leaving, rents going down, rent freezes and now what amounts to rent forgiveness. As people exit their rental property their landlords will want out i think. And many will bail out now as soon as their tenant leaves.



    The only card left on the table at this point is to prevent evicting tenants for sale of property. When that comes in landlords will have no choice but to stay in the market and take whatever medicine is coming to them. So many will bail out before that is a reality. And that reality of having to only sellf with a tenant in the property is very close now imo.

    I suppose your a fully paid up member of the Eoin O'Broin fan club too.


  • #408
    accensi0n
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    mgn wrote: »
    I suppose your a fully paid up member of the Eoin O'Broin fan club too.

    I don't think you're comprehending that posters posts...
    I'm pretty sure he's not arguing for the points he's making, he's just pointing out facts and what will probably happen, he's not saying he wants those things.


  • #409
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    accensi0n wrote: »
    I don't think you're comprehending that posters posts...
    I'm pretty sure he's not arguing for the points he's making, he's just pointing out facts and what will probably happen, he's not saying he wants those things.




    Thankyou.
    Exactly what I am doing.
    Its like a constant assault on here from certain posters who dont even read the posts they are replying to. Its reactionary stuff like that that has totally ruined the rental market in Ireland. The only people benefiting are the REITS.
    Tenants AND ordinary landords are both losing.


  • #410
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    accensi0n wrote: »
    I don't think you're comprehending that posters posts...
    I'm pretty sure he's not arguing for the points he's making, he's just pointing out facts and what will probably happen, he's not saying he wants those things.

    Pointing out facts that people have being giving permission not to pay rent for 3 months, really.


  • #411
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    mgn wrote: »
    Pointing out facts that people have being giving permission not to pay rent for 3 months, really.

    I know its hard to climb down from an aggressive position, but please think about it.
    Reading and comprehension. Its important.


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  • #412
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    people have been given permission to not pay their rent for 3 months. They are going to use it.

    I don't see any such provision in the emergency legislation.

    Can you link to it if I've missed it.


  • #413
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I know its hard to climb down from an aggressive position, but please think about it.
    Reading and comprehension. Its important.

    Don't worry i have read your post, and its not to hard see what angle your coming from.


  • #414
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Does "rent freeze" not refer to a ban on increasing existing rents for three months? Where does it say it's a break from paying any rent for 3 months? Have I misunderstood the whole thing? I know there is a ban on evictions for 3 months, so indirectly I suppose that is like saying "you don't have to pay your rent because you can't get evicted over non-payment for this amount of time" - is that where the "no rent needs to be paid" thing is coming from?


  • #415
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Antares35 wrote: »
    Does "rent freeze" not refer to a ban on increasing existing rents for three months?

    That would be my understanding.

    There does appear to be a misconception that freeze = holiday.


  • #416
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Jo Satan wrote: »
    Most Landlords, but not you.

    You have stated that your tenants should get the covid-19 payments of €350 per week and their total of €700 per week would almost cover the rent.
    Your tenants have financial problems forcing them to ask you for leniency and your reply was sufficiently firm to make them find your rent regardless.
    So assuming they have no other income they are surviving on savings whilst you use their emergency covid-19 payment to continue paying the mortgage on your investment.
    I imagine their savings would be paltry after paying €2800 plus per month in rent.

    There is no automatic entitlement to retain savings at the expense of your contractual obligations. Plenty of people paying mortgages do not have savings. I read an article recently which said that almost a quarter of millennials have dipped into their savings which had been ear marked for buying their first home, so that they could meet their living expenses in the current crisis.

    I can understand a need for leniency where someone literally has nothing, but expecting to be able to retain savings while not paying your bills is a bit much. I can't imagine any utility provider, credit card company etc. accepting reduced or no payments because you want to keep your savings intact.


  • #417
    Roberto_gas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,932 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    Antares35 wrote: »
    Does "rent freeze" not refer to a ban on increasing existing rents for three months? Where does it say it's a break from paying any rent for 3 months? Have I misunderstood the whole thing? I know there is a ban on evictions for 3 months, so indirectly I suppose that is like saying "you don't have to pay your rent because you can't get evicted over non-payment for this amount of time" - is that where the "no rent needs to be paid" thing is coming from?

    I was told by PRTB that rent review is also put on hold until further notice....


  • #418
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Roberto_gas wrote: »
    I was told by PRTB that rent review is also put on hold until further notice....

    Is that not saying the same thing? i.e. upward rent reviews not permitted.


  • #419
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    There is no rent amendment meaning tenants dont have to pay rent for 3 months. There can be no evictions or rent increase for 3 months but thats all. Every tenant is still liable to pay their rent.


  • #420
    Saudades
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Saudades


    Antares35 wrote: »
    Does "rent freeze" not refer to a ban on increasing existing rents for three months?
    Roberto_gas wrote: »
    I was told by PRTB that rent review is also put on hold until further notice....
    Antares35 wrote: »
    Is that not saying the same thing?

    It might be ambiguous wording but I thought a 'rent review' is a notice period of increasing rents. So a rent review can happen in say January to give notice about the actual rent increase in say April.
    Antares35 wrote: »
    I read an article recently which said that almost a quarter of millennials have dipped into their savings which had been ear marked for buying their first home, so that they could meet their living expenses in the current crisis.

    I'm surprised it's only a quarter!


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  • #421
    Pete123456
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Pete123456


    “Prohibition on rent increases under Act of 2004

    6. Notwithstanding the Act of 2004, an increase in the rent under the tenancy of a dwelling—

    (a) that, but for this section, would take effect during the emergency period shall not take effect during that period, and

    (b) shall not be payable in respect of any period falling during the emergency period.”

    Meaning a rent increase as a result of a rent review due to take effect during the emergency period will not, and the difference in rent during the emergency period of the reviewed rent is not owed.

    I’m glad my landlord decided to go 25 months instead of 24, otherwise I would be paying the increased amount!!


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