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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,161 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    Still no update on next years squad!
    I think we'll plateau next year. The turnover of quality players is astounding. The influx of youngsters is fine, but the experience factor could be damning.
    Whilst I agree that lads should move between provinces I think Leinster have suffered. The depth is not as good and will only take time to become as good.
    I reckon Ulster have really stepped up and their squad is looking strong.
    Thank God, the academy is still turning out quality lads.

    A good preseason for Tomane and a bit more game time for some of the younger fringe players could hugely benefit the team. I'd agree though that the loss of SOB, McGrath, Kearney (likely) a year after we lost Heaslip, Jordi and and Isa is a huge blow experience wise. It's about 1000 Leinster caps between six players.

    I think it's a gap that can be somewhat plugged with the right exposure of certain young players and the continued development of others but there are a few moving parts we need to get right.

    JGP being Irish qualified next year will be a huge boost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    I'm very disappointed for Ross Molony missing the business end of the season (they're also being very quiet about what exactly is the issue)

    He was having a very positive season this year and would have backed him to get some decent big game minutes. He was at a very impressive 800 minutes at the start of March


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,161 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    I'm very disappointed for Ross Molony missing the business end of the season (they're also being very quiet about what exactly is the issue)

    He was having a very positive season this year and would have backed him to get some decent big game minutes. He was at a very impressive 800 minutes at the start of March

    He has a back injury.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    He has a back injury.

    Well aware, but he was included in 1 injury update since March and there was no explanation as to how it occurred etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Well aware, but he was included in 1 injury update since March and there was no explanation as to how it occurred etc

    My memory, which is not great, didn’t he get a knock in a game?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    awec wrote: »

    Claim: Still comfortably the top side in the Pro14 by quite a distance,

    Escape clause: also I think beatable on any given day in knockout rugby.

    Certainly covering your bets there!

    Only if we can get to the final and then beat Glasgow in Glasgow, will I agree with your claim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    My memory, which is not great, didn’t he get a knock in a game?

    He played the full 80.

    It's strange.

    Either way. Injuries happen and I am sure there is nothing untoward.

    Just disappointed for him as there was high standard minutes up for grabs


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    I'm very disappointed for Ross Molony missing the business end of the season (they're also being very quiet about what exactly is the issue)

    He was having a very positive season this year and would have backed him to get some decent big game minutes. He was at a very impressive 800 minutes at the start of March

    He seemed to be training with the squad in Newcastle, maybe he's back fit now.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Squatter wrote: »
    Certainly covering your bets there!

    Only if we can get to the final and then beat Glasgow in Glasgow, will I agree with your claim.

    He's right tho. If the Pro14 was a strict league format, who do you think would be favourites for the competition? It's specifically why awec included "knock-out rugby".


  • Administrators Posts: 53,126 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Squatter wrote: »
    Certainly covering your bets there!

    Only if we can get to the final and then beat Glasgow in Glasgow, will I agree with your claim.

    Over the course of an entire league, your superior squad will comfortably see you through.

    In any single game though you can only pick 23 players, and I don’t think your first 23 is as strong as it was.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Leinster will do well to soak up the loss of Kearney and sob, who I feel based on the evidence that they continue to start when available and are test players still, is at least as bad as last year's losses and also compounds it obviously. I also think the loss of McGrath and Noel Reid are unfortunate, I can see McGrath getting match fit and returning to his old form and I can see reids passing game being useful against the increasingly stifling rush defense, that no doubt every team will emulate next year.

    But we will still be a top 4 team next year and regenerating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭yerrahbah


    Has it been confirmed that Kearney is leaving/retiring? Seems a bit up in the air.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,161 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    yerrahbah wrote: »
    Has it been confirmed that Kearney is leaving/retiring? Seems a bit up in the air.

    Nope. Nothing confirmed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,601 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    yerrahbah wrote: »
    Has it been confirmed that Kearney is leaving/retiring? Seems a bit up in the air.

    No, just rumours. He's out of contract after the RWC so it's all sort of speculative at the moment as to whether he'll re-sign, or look for a money deal in France or hang up his boots.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,248 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    You’d have to think RK knows what his plans are at this stage so I would think if he was staying on that would have been announced a while ago, I’d say he might have a couple of offers elsewhere and is deciding between them, possibly waiting to see a clubs situation for next season as in promoted or relegated. Or possibly I’m reading too much into nothing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,601 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    salmocab wrote: »
    You’d have to think RK knows what his plans are at this stage so I would think if he was staying on that would have been announced a while ago, I’d say he might have a couple of offers elsewhere and is deciding between them, possibly waiting to see a clubs situation for next season as in promoted or relegated. Or possibly I’m reading too much into nothing.

    Could also just be dragging the arse out of it in negotiations with the IRFU/Leinster.

    There's been little to no "insider sources" saying he's going to other teams in the media, and with a player who would be likely looking for the money RK you'd expect his agent to be putting out that narrative by now to whip up a bidding frenzy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭Serbian


    I'm nervous for next season. I think we've shed an awful lot of talent over the last two seasons and have brought in two players in return.

    Jordi Murphy, Jack McGrath, Sean O'Brien, Joey Carbery, Noel Reid, Nick McCarthy, Isa Nacewa confirmed gone. Rob Kearney, Mick Kearney, Dave Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Ross Molony all doubts for next season. Dan Leavy already injured for the entirety of next season. I'm probably forgetting some.

    Tomane and Kelleher the only arrivals so far.

    Our first 15, when fit, will still be strong, though we have a number of issues:
    1. We have no obvious successor for Rob Kearney if he does end up leaving. Carbery was the man lined up for the position, seems like Larmour is the only candidate now.
    2. Our depth past the first man is questionable in a lot of places. Notably loosehead, hooker, lock, openside, outside centre, wing, and fullback.
    3. We've struggled to keep key positions fit, openside and centre in particular
    We'll obviously be in transition next season. We have the potential in our academy pack prospects to possibly plug the gaps, but I think we massively lack depth past 10. Henshaw to Tomane / Conor O'Brien, Ringrose to O'Loughlin, even our likely first choice back three of Lowe, Byrne and Larmour is defensively suspect at least, potentially only Tomane or Kelleher to plug the gaps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    We might see Lowe at 15 next year. Larmour and Tomane on the wings?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    clsmooth wrote: »
    We might see Lowe at 15 next year. Larmour and Tomane on the wings?


    All the indications coming out of Leinster is that Larmour is a 15. He needs practise under high ball but in the final he done well so his training seems to be working.....


    He has not got a run of 4-5 games yet at 15....at least give the guy a chance before writing him off....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    All the indications coming out of Leinster is that Larmour is a 15. He needs practise under high ball but in the final he done well so his training seems to be working.....


    He has not got a run of 4-5 games yet at 15....at least give the guy a chance before writing him off....

    Not writing him off at all. But think Lowe at 15 could give us an extra playmaking option hitting the line from deep or coming in at first receiver.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,161 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    clsmooth wrote: »
    Not writing him off at all. But think Lowe at 15 could give us an extra playmaking option hitting the line from deep or coming in at first receiver.

    Lowe is an incredible attacker but his defence varies between very competent and poor.

    He's a lot more dangerous on the fringes and I think he'd be wasted as a 15. I think the 11 jersey is his


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Serbian wrote: »
    I'm nervous for next season. I think we've shed an awful lot of talent over the last two seasons and have brought in two players in return.

    Jordi Murphy, Jack McGrath, Sean O'Brien, Joey Carbery, Noel Reid, Nick McCarthy confirmed gone. Rob Kearney, Mick Kearney, Dave Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Ross Molony all doubts for next season. Dan Leavy already injured for the entirety of next season. I'm probably forgetting some.

    Tomane and Kelleher the only arrivals so far.

    Our first 15, when fit, will still be strong, though we have a number of issues:
    1. We have no obvious successor for Rob Kearney if he does end up leaving. Carbery was the man lined up for the position, seems like Larmour is the only candidate now.
    2. Our depth past the first man is questionable in a lot of places. Notably loosehead, hooker, lock, openside, outside centre, wing, and fullback.
    3. We've struggled to keep key positions fit, openside and centre in particular
    We'll obviously be in transition next season. We have the potential in our academy pack prospects to possibly plug the gaps, but I think we massively lack depth past 10. Henshaw to Tomane / Conor O'Brien, Ringrose to O'Loughlin, even our likely first choice back three of Lowe, Byrne and Larmour is defensively suspect at least, potentially only Tomane or Kelleher to plug the gaps.


    Where did you see this?

    Also, everyone lamenting about the perceived lack of imports is just completely disregarding the players we have in situ.

    Conor O'Brien is a European standard player now

    Ed Byrne is likely to get a cap this summer and will be first choice for all of the start of next season having gotten knock out rugby experience this season.

    We can play JGP, Fardy and Lowe in the same team next season.

    Frawley has another year of Pro14 rugby under his belt and will push on.

    We have a super star in the making in Scott Penny who at 19 has already shown he's up to pro14 standard at least.

    Jack Dunne looks ready to sieze his chance with Nagle and Kearney gone.

    Doris and Deegan are another year older with both of them clearly up to it at mid European level

    Yes we've lost some experience. But look at what is coming through. Any other club would absolutely murder to have these fellas knocking at the door.

    If I had to choose between parachuting in a marquee because they've a few European caps or a young person whose grown up in the Leinster winning culture I know who'd I'd back 10 times out of 10


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,161 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Where did you see this?

    Also, everyone lamenting about the perceived lack of imports is just completely disregarding the players we have in situ.

    Conor O'Brien is a European standard player now

    Ed Byrne is likely to get a cap this summer and will be first choice for all of the start of next season having gotten knock out rugby experience this season.

    We can play JGP, Fardy and Lowe in the same team next season.

    Frawley has another year of Pro14 rugby under his belt and will push on.

    We have a super star in the making in Scott Penny who at 19 has already shown he's up to pro14 standard at least.

    Jack Dunne looks ready to sieze his chance with Nagle and Kearney gone.

    Doris and Deegan are another year older with both of them clearly up to it at mid European level

    Yes we've lost some experience. But look at what is coming through. Any other club would absolutely murder to have these fellas knocking at the door.

    If I had to choose between parachuting in a marquee because they've a few European caps or a young person whose grown up in the Leinster winning culture I know who'd I'd back 10 times out of 10

    Ryan Baird is looking like a machine too. Some serious talent coming through alright.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,267 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Larmour is the obvious 15 replacement. Hes played there in any big game RK hasn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Serbian wrote: »
    I'm nervous for next season. I think we've shed an awful lot of talent over the last two seasons and have brought in two players in return.

    Jordi Murphy, Jack McGrath, Sean O'Brien, Joey Carbery, Noel Reid, Nick McCarthy confirmed gone. Rob Kearney, Mick Kearney, Dave Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Ross Molony all doubts for next season. Dan Leavy already injured for the entirety of next season. I'm probably forgetting some.

    Tomane and Kelleher the only arrivals so far.

    Our first 15, when fit, will still be strong, though we have a number of issues:
    1. We have no obvious successor for Rob Kearney if he does end up leaving. Carbery was the man lined up for the position, seems like Larmour is the only candidate now.
    2. Our depth past the first man is questionable in a lot of places. Notably loosehead, hooker, lock, openside, outside centre, wing, and fullback.
    3. We've struggled to keep key positions fit, openside and centre in particular
    We'll obviously be in transition next season. We have the potential in our academy pack prospects to possibly plug the gaps, but I think we massively lack depth past 10. Henshaw to Tomane / Conor O'Brien, Ringrose to O'Loughlin, even our likely first choice back three of Lowe, Byrne and Larmour is defensively suspect at least, potentially only Tomane or Kelleher to plug the gaps.

    This is just not true and stinks of someone just determined to see all the negatives.

    You need to be realistic about the class of depth that is practical to keep.

    Loosehead: Healy, Byrne, Dooley. All 3 have played in a Champs Cup semi final. Our riches here are less with McGrath gone but still incredible.

    Hooker: Cronin, Tracy, Byrne, Kelleher. First 2 are knockout rugby class and the remaining 2 pro14 standard. What more do you want?

    Lock: Toner, Fardy, Ryan, Molony, Dunne, Baird. . First 3 speak for themselves. Molony and excellent player (especially as 4th choice) and Dunne looks to have all the tools needed

    Openside: VDF, Connors, Penny. Don't forget how good a player Connors is just because he missed the season. Leinster fought tooth and nail to keep him from Connacht for a reason. Penny already Pro14 class less than a year after doing his Leaving Cert...

    Centre: Ringrose, Henshaw, ROL, Tomane, COB. 5 centres who can play to a European standard. Not sure what else you want really. That's before we include the likes of JOB, TOB, Mullin etc who'd be well up for the Pro14.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Serbian wrote: »
    Jordi Murphy, Jack McGrath, Sean O'Brien, Joey Carbery, Noel Reid, Nick McCarthy confirmed gone. Rob Kearney, Mick Kearney, Dave Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Ross Molony all doubts for next season. Dan Leavy already injured for the entirety of next season. I'm probably forgetting some.

    Mick Kearney is a confirmed departure. Don't think there's any question over DK, McFadden or Molony though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kingofthekong


    With Baird, Ryan, Dowling, Dunne, Josh.M, Fardy I wouldnt be too worried about losing Molony


  • Administrators Posts: 53,126 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It could be that Leinster are now reverting to a more normal team, with normal depth levels, and what you've enjoyed the past number of years is a freakish, exceptional period, rather than being the norm.

    You'll still have more depth than pretty much every other team.

    Be like Jeff Bezos losing 50 billion behind the couch, wondering if the 100 billion he is left with will be enough to see him through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭troyzer


    awec wrote: »
    It could be that Leinster are now reverting to a more normal team, with normal depth levels, and what you've enjoyed the past number of years is a freakish, exceptional period, rather than being the norm.

    You'll still have more depth than pretty much every other team.

    Be like Jeff Bezos losing 50 billion behind the couch, wondering if the 100 billion he is left with will be enough to see him through.

    Being just like every other team isn't enough to win Europe. That's the problem.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    awec wrote: »
    It could be that Leinster are now reverting to a more normal team, with normal depth levels, and what you've enjoyed the past number of years is a freakish, exceptional period, rather than being the norm.

    You'll still have more depth than pretty much every other team.

    This.

    People are harping on like we're entitled to have a Champions cup standard second 15.

    And to be fair, our second 15 next season would make a pretty decent fist of it.

    But our front line team is still incredible.

    People need to understand that the better the people are who don't get first team rugby, the more likely they are to leave.


This discussion has been closed.
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