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Year Head and Posts

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  • 20-08-2019 11:57am
    #1
    Moody_mona
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭


    Looking for what's the done thing on other schools please. Principal is quoting 03/2018 as the reason for removing three AP1 teachers from their Year Head positions to fulfil other leadership duties around the school. I'm not sure what these are yet. Three teachers are now taking on the Year Head role; they have a reduced timetable as a result. I presume these teachers have been selected and asked because it certainly wasn't advertised to the staff. They do not have an AP1 or 2 post. Do the ASTI still have a directive on engaging with posts like this? Don't know what to make of it.


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    #2
    linguist
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭linguist


    Seems very wrong indeed. My only advice would be to discuss immediately with the school steward. If you feel you can't, such as where the school steward is involved and your grievance would appear to concern him/her, then contact ASTI head office directly.

    Even with regard to reassigning AP1s, my understanding has been this:

    - AP1s appointed before the new circular continue with pre-existing terms and conditions based on the post as advertised. So they could only be reassigned to a post appropriate to their level. Generally, AP1s serve as year heads although some may be exam secretaries etc.
    - New appointments subsequent to the review of posts of responsibility under the circular can be reviewed but again the terms of the post as advertised would have to apply. If the advert specifically stated that the post-holder would take responsibility for a year group then any unilateral move away from that would surely be a breach of contract.
    - I'm less clear about acting up but in recent times in my own school this has been done by existing post-holders at the same level to avoid conferring an unfair advantage when the post was advertised. So in the event of an AP1 year head being out sick for a period of time, one of the other AP1s or the principal/deputy principal would temporarily take responsibility for the year group.

    Please don't take the above as gospel. It's based on my own observations/experience of how things are done. You need to refer this to the union. Don't let a precedent be set here.


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    #3
    ccazza
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭ccazza


    Moody_mona wrote: »
    Looking for what's the done thing on other schools please. Principal is quoting 03/2018 as the reason for removing three AP1 teachers from their Year Head positions to fulfil other leadership duties around the school. I'm not sure what these are yet. Three teachers are now taking on the Year Head role; they have a reduced timetable as a result. I presume these teachers have been selected and asked because it certainly wasn't advertised to the staff. They do not have an AP1 or 2 post. Do the ASTI still have a directive on engaging with posts like this? Don't know what to make of it.

    I asked the union this last year and if the year heads have been posts in the school previously as has been the case in your school then the year heads position cannot be taken over by non post holders.


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    #4
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,555 ✭✭✭Treppen


    So the AP1s AND 3 teachers all have reduced timetables?
    Maybe it's more to do with managing excess hours (school over quota?) than it has to do with posts.


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    #5
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭solerina


    Treppen wrote: »
    So the AP1s AND 3 teachers all have reduced timetables?
    Maybe it's more to do with managing excess hours (school over quota?) than it has to do with posts.

    AP1 post holders in ETB schools are on 18 hours, in secondary schools there is no time reduction


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    #6
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Anyone with a post can be reallocated duties, regardless of when they appointed.


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    #7
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,555 ✭✭✭Treppen


    doc_17 wrote: »
    Anyone with a post can be reallocated duties, regardless of when they appointed.

    I thought union says you can't be asked to take up a role that has duties which were previously paid.


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    #8
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,555 ✭✭✭Treppen


    doc_17 wrote: »
    Anyone with a post can be reallocated duties, regardless of when they appointed.

    True but can a teacher without any post be reallocated these duties unpaid?


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    #9
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭amacca


    Treppen wrote: »
    True but can a teacher without any post be reallocated these duties unpaid?

    Id imagine they shouldn't be but will be if

    1) they are new and desperate for a contract or easily browbeaten

    2) they want nothing more than climb the greasy pole and are prepared to do anything to climb it - regardless of how it might affect colleagues conditions longterm.

    .....there may be other reasons


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    #10
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Treppen wrote: »
    I thought union says you can't be asked to take up a role that has duties which were previously paid.

    Yes. But I was referring to another comment that said a postholder can’t be allocated other duties. They can. There is no more of this thing where your post stays the same for your whole career.


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    #11
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Treppen wrote: »
    True but can a teacher without any post be reallocated these duties unpaid?

    No. They would have to agree to take them on.


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    #12
    Moody_mona
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭Moody_mona


    Thanks for the replies guys!!

    Issue isn't with ap1s being assigned other roles. I understand that. Although I really hope there was a consultation process with them.

    Three teachers have been asked to take on the role of year head in an unpaid capacity. So the problems that are going to arise tomorrow when we go back are, why these people, why is year head no longer a prioritised role for ap1s and where did the hours come from since they have the time reduction on their timetable. Fun and games!!


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    #13
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,555 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Moody_mona wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies guys!!

    Issue isn't with ap1s being assigned other roles. I understand that. Although I really hope there was a consultation process with them.

    Three teachers have been asked to take on the role of year head in an unpaid capacity. So the problems that are going to arise tomorrow when we go back are, why these people, why is year head no longer a prioritised role for ap1s and where did the hours come from since they have the time reduction on their timetable. Fun and games!!

    Three teachers need a representative and can't be left to be singled out. It does't have to be a person from the school but can be a simple letter from Union stating that the role was previously paid.
    But if the 3 teachers want to do it then very difficult, especially as students are coming back and they want to know who their yearhead is.

    It's happening a lot with the changing of roles, a letter to all staff and management from the Unions outlining the position might give support.


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    #14
    ccazza
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭ccazza


    I think the school steward needs to go to the Principal and say that this cannot happen as per union guidelines. The AP1 post holders might be delighted to be relieved of the Year Head position as it can be quite a difficult position. The teachers who have been asked to do it might have felt pressurized to do it or might be delighted to do it. Either way it isn't right. If AP1 posts come up again in the school they could have an unfair advantage over other teachers longer there who were not asked to do the position. That could lead to a terrible atmosphere among the staff.... You need a strong union representative here.


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    #15
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    This principal is really taking the pi$$.
    There are so many issues with this I don't know where to start.
    One huge issue is that the handpicked teachers will believe they have a huge advantage in any future interviews for posts. However, if they were appointed and someone appealed they would win hands down.
    I have heard this happened when the TUI appealed an appointment in such a case. The ruling was that those who did not gain an opportunity to build up their experience were unfairly disadvantaged. New interview took place, complete new panel without principal let near it and guess what....a completely different result.


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    #16
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    What amazes me with the rush to posts is this -most teachers can earn the money easier outside.
    Yes I know there is the extra amount in pension but if you invested in an AVC you'd get a fair amount of that extra pension bump.
    I think the way posts are going it won't be worth it in the end.


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