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What do you do about Club Membership fees if courses are closed

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    #92
    Sultan_of_Ping
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Sultan_of_Ping


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I've already said that if you talk to your club they may be willing to help you out, I know mine has in the past.
    But if you just stop paying the club has to assume that you are done with them and want to leave.
    I certainly wouldnt expect the joining fee to be waived, why would the club ignore that income if there is someone else willing to pay it?

    +1 on this.

    I know our place has facilitated people when they've had to work away, or gone to uni or for whatever reason were looking like they were going to be away from the club for a year or more.

    I think if you just disappear, they'll assume you've gone elsewhere and probably within their rights to treat any future application as an application to join, rather than re-join.

    Plus if people are planning to let their memberships lapse can I suggest it might be good manners to let the club know? It probably helps with planning etc if they definitely know someone is not coming back, rather than them wondering.


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    #93
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭blue note


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I've already said that if you talk to your club they may be willing to help you out, I know mine has in the past.
    But if you just stop paying the club has to assume that you are done with them and want to leave.
    I certainly wouldnt expect the joining fee to be waived, why would the club ignore that income if there is someone else willing to pay it?

    Communication is key. Clubs will appreciate it and be more likely to help you out.

    Will the joining fee be waived? It depends. I'd certainly ask to freeze my membership rather than cancel it if I was taking a break from the club rather than leaving permanently. If you've a genuine reason such as illness or financial difficulty I'd hope clubs would be understanding and I suspect most would. That would be the most likely way to not have to pay now but get back into the club without paying a joining fee later.

    I expect we'll have a bit of a repeat of the financial crisis with clubs doing what they can to survive now. And joining fees will only remain in the top clubs and the ones in affluent highly populated areas like clontarf or the likes.


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    #94
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    blue note wrote: »
    Communication is key. Clubs will appreciate it and be more likely to help you out.

    Will the joining fee be waived? It depends. I'd certainly ask to freeze my membership rather than cancel it if I was taking a break from the club rather than leaving permanently. If you've a genuine reason such as illness or financial difficulty I'd hope clubs would be understanding and I suspect most would. That would be the most likely way to not have to pay now but get back into the club without paying a joining fee later.

    I expect we'll have a bit of a repeat of the financial crisis with clubs doing what they can to survive now. And joining fees will only remain in the top clubs and the ones in affluent highly populated areas like clontarf or the likes.

    I think the best approach for both sides is to temporarily downgrade your membership to lower your sub. Switch to distance or house member for example.


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    #95
    Glebee
    Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Glebee


    I suppose like the banks the best thing to do is talk to your club about membership payments. I usually pay mine and sons in parts over Jan, Feb and March. Club are only too happy to oblige. I knew this lock down was coming but paid the final part the week before last. Our club is in bother money wise and without these subs they would fold. A lot of clubs that have money issues or are just about staying above water will be in serious bother if this lock down continues for a long time. I dont know how many of my fellow club members are all paid up or intend too at this stage


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    #96
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,824 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    GolfNut33 wrote: »
    Hearing of lads stopping their DD. I'm thinking they mustn't be too attached to their club or its well being. I'm a club man through and through and would be happy to pay a little extra if they asked for some help. That's just me though.

    maybe you should keep thinking.

    maybe they have lost their job, or had their income dramatically reduced and just can't afford it.

    its not always about choice, sometimes life changes and your have to adapt accordingly.


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    #97
    morrga
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    Seve OB wrote: »
    maybe you should keep thinking.

    maybe they have lost their job, or had their income dramatically reduced and just can't afford it.

    its not always about choice, sometimes life changes and your have to adapt accordingly.

    Income subsidies have been provided by government to protect incomes. Most who play golf haven’t had their income too badly impacted. A golf sub is an annual contract not a monthly subscription that you can cancel on a whim.


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    #98
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    morrga wrote: »
    Income subsidies have been provided by government to protect incomes. Most who play golf haven’t had their income too badly impacted. A golf sub is an annual contract not a monthly subscription that you can cancel on a whim.

    How could you possibly know that?


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    #99
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,824 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    morrga wrote: »
    Income subsidies have been provided by government to protect incomes. Most who play golf haven’t had their income too badly impacted. A golf sub is an annual contract not a monthly subscription that you can cancel on a whim.

    im down to 30% of my regular wage so im gonna suggest you know nothing about anyone else business


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    #100
    GolfNut33
    Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭GolfNut33


    Seve OB wrote: »
    maybe you should keep thinking.

    maybe they have lost their job, or had their income dramatically reduced and just can't afford it.

    its not always about choice, sometimes life changes and your have to adapt accordingly.

    Was talking about members who were cancelling their DD just because the course is closed as per previous post.

    Obviously there are more important outgoing at home and if income drops then golf gets the chop.


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    #101
    Sultan_of_Ping
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Sultan_of_Ping


    morrga wrote: »
    Income subsidies have been provided by government to protect incomes. Most who play golf haven’t had their income too badly impacted. A golf sub is an annual contract not a monthly subscription that you can cancel on a whim.

    Nonsense.

    Two of the lads who I regularly play golf with are pretty well rewarded IT-type individuals - but they are independent contractors, so while they may pull down a generous hourly or daily rate, they're getting zero at the moment, and it's likely to be that way for some time.

    Likewise an awful lot of other people - we've a few taxi drivers who are members - can't imagine they're not suffering, likewise anyone else who is self-employed or works for any number of businesses. There's a reason we're heading 25%+ unemployment.

    In fact, I'd bet I'm one of the exceptions in our club in that I'm still getting a salary.

    Finally, I'd disagree with your characterisation of a golf sub as an annual contract - that may be legally correct, but at the end of the day the club is a collective, and the collective should (and in most cases will) go some way to helping it's members. But the club can only help if it knows what's going on, that's why I think it's important for people in difficulties to talk to their club.

    I'd say any club taking a legalistic approach to gathering membership fees won't have many fees to collect by next year.


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    #102
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    All members of golf clubs who are retired should continue paying their subs as their income hasn’t changed at all .


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    #103
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,652 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    hawkelady wrote: »
    All members of golf clubs who are retired should continue paying their subs as their income hasn’t changed at all .

    Yeah but their pensions could have taken a massive hit.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #104
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    Yeah but their pensions could have taken a massive hit.

    If you’re drawing your pension either state and or private , afaik it’s a set amount that’s already been paid into so it doesn’t change


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    #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »
    I'd say any club taking a legalistic approach to gathering membership fees won't have many fees to collect by next year.

    Equally if enough members stop paying then a lot of clubs will go out of business. So many clubs just about holding on as it is.


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    #106
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    hawkelady wrote: »
    If you’re drawing your pension either state and or private , afaik it’s a set amount that’s already been paid into so it doesn’t change

    Not necessarily true and in fact in these days of low interest rates then probably not true at all.

    There are tonnes of methods not to turn all your pension into an annuity like an ARF

    And if you dont know what an annuity is or an ARF is then I suggest not making comments like above


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    #107
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    Not necessarily true and in fact in these days of low interest rates then probably not true at all.

    There are tonnes of methods not to turn all your pension into an annuity like an ARF

    And if you dont know what an annuity is or an ARF is then I suggest not making comments like above

    Ah , a know it all !!
    No I wouldn’t know in intricacies of pension funds etc , that won’t stop me commenting though . If you have an annuity though ,AFAIK( this is the hint) you will have a set amount for the rest of your life ?
    Anyway , let’s get back on topic . You sound like a person that is wanting to stop your sub ?Please Correct me if I’m wrong .. I will continue paying my sub as I want my club to be there after this sorry tale is over .


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    #108
    Reganio 2
    Registered Users Posts: 3,732 ✭✭✭Reganio 2


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Ah , a know it all !!
    No I wouldn’t know in intricacies of pension funds etc , that won’t stop me commenting though . If you have an annuity though ,AFAIK( this is the hint) you will have a set amount for the rest of your life ?
    Anyway , let’s get back on topic . You sound like a person that is wanting to stop your sub ?Please Correct me if I’m wrong .. I will continue paying my sub as I want my club to be there after this sorry tale is over .
    I know nothing about Golf wont stop me commenting though.


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    #109
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Ah , a know it all !!
    No I wouldn’t know in intricacies of pension funds etc , that won’t stop me commenting though . If you have an annuity though ,AFAIK( this is the hint) you will have a set amount for the rest of your life ?

    Yes and my company usually charge 350 per hour for such advice from me!! :p:p

    Many private sector people will resist annuities now and for the foreseeable future due to low interest rates


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    #110
    morrga
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    Kellan Small Spaciousness wrote: »
    How could you possibly know that?

    The government has agreed to pay 70% of wages for those earning up to 38,000 per annum. The vast majority of incomes under 38k are protected.

    I haven't heard of many colleagues, family or friends earning above 38k who have had their income reduced either. Have you?

    Most who signed on to the dole were low income earners who have been compensated with 350 per week and not exactly a cohort of golfers who make up a large part of the golfing population. As harsh as that might sound I don't think its a million miles from the truth.

    This country loves to play the poor mouth but still expect sky sports, pints and 2 holidays a year to be a minimum standard of living. The entitlement of the country has us molly coddled.


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    #111
    morrga
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    Seve OB wrote: »
    im down to 30% of my regular wage so im gonna suggest you know nothing about anyone else business

    Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately one person's situation is not an adequate sample size reflective of all golfers situations.
    So when I am generalising of course certain individuals cannot be covered but my point is a significant majority of incomes are protected or close to protection. Those who's arent can avail of mortgage holidays etc etc.

    And back to my original point membership is an annual subscription not a monthly subscription. Like mortgage moratoriums I am sure golf clubs can accept a deferral of standing orders but on the agreement the full annual sub is still due payable.


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    #112
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭blue note


    The incomes of pretty much anyone self employed or who have performance based pay like commission or bonuses will be severely hit by this. There is a huge percentage of golfers who have been and will be hit financially from this.

    And to add, I don't fit into the above, but both mine and my wife's jobs are in jeopardy from this. I started a new job with the intention that I take on new business which has now vanished. I'm not sure there's a need for me now. And my wife works in the aviation industry, so God knows what will happen there.

    The effects of this will be severe and it will reach all types of people. Including golfers.


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    #113
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    My bonus is gone for many years.....I earn 6 figures for now...will i still be earning at that level in 6 months or a years time. We live month to month. My rent is 40% of my income. There are 3 (soon to be 4) people to look after on the remainder

    A couple in Dublin were both are earning in the 50-60k range with two kids were struggling to survive in the old world. If they both go to 38k they are screwed. Mortgage holidays are that they are holiday. Mortgages are accruing interest

    I was self employed till last October. I am blessed


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    #114
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,824 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    morrga wrote: »
    Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately one person's situation is not an adequate sample size reflective of all golfers situations.
    So when I am generalising of course certain individuals cannot be covered but my point is a significant majority of incomes are protected or close to protection. Those who's arent can avail of mortgage holidays etc etc.

    And back to my original point membership is an annual subscription not a monthly subscription. Like mortgage moratoriums I am sure golf clubs can accept a deferral of standing orders but on the agreement the full annual sub is still due payable.

    forget about me for a minute
    the point is, you haven't a clue what circumstance other golfers are finding themselves in.
    you made a general statement that most golfers haven't been to badly impacted and you have absolutely no backup to that assumption.


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    #115
    Ottoman_1000
    Registered Users Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭Ottoman_1000


    Since yesterday I have been put on 3 days a week and the wife had already been made temporary redundant for the foreseeable. With 2 kids and a mortgage I am afraid the golf club direct debit has to be cut. Along with a few other pastimes. Its just the way it it. Family and house will always come first. Some of the attitudes on here are unbelievable, people almost getting called out and shamed for prioritising their family and home over their golf sub....


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    #116
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    morrga wrote: »
    The government has agreed to pay 70% of wages for those earning up to 38,000 per annum. The vast majority of incomes under 38k are protected.

    I haven't heard of many colleagues, family or friends earning above 38k who have had their income reduced either. Have you?

    Most who signed on to the dole were low income earners who have been compensated with 350 per week and not exactly a cohort of golfers who make up a large part of the golfing population. As harsh as that might sound I don't think its a million miles from the truth.

    This country loves to play the poor mouth but still expect sky sports, pints and 2 holidays a year to be a minimum standard of living. The entitlement of the country has us molly coddled.

    You're doing the exact same thing again as highlighted above, another sweeping statement based upon zero facts.

    Do you have the income breakdown of the golfing population of ireland?

    No idea what the poor mouth stuff is related to, I'm assuming it's not directed towards me so no particular interest in engaging in that.


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    #117
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    To be fair, we cant on one hand be worried about the state of golf in Ireland due to the average age being 60+ and now suddenly worried that all these young golfers have no spare cash to pay their golf subs....its kinda either one or the other, at a macro level. Obviously individual members and clubs are all different, but in general golfers in Ireland should be least impacted by any wage cuts due to COVID-19.


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    #118
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    GreeBo wrote: »
    To be fair, we cant on one hand be worried about the state of golf in Ireland due to the average age being 60+ and now suddenly worried that all these young golfers have no spare cash to pay their golf subs....its kinda either one or the other, at a macro level. Obviously individual members and clubs are all different, but in general golfers in Ireland should be least impacted by any wage cuts due to COVID-19.

    It's not one or the other. Those people of an older vintage are not all flush with cash.

    They have commitments too, perhaps their children are out of work and instead of paying for the luxury of golf, they're supporting their family.

    There is some sense to what your saying but it's crazy to think it's a binary thing.

    Where are you getting 60+ as the average age of a golfer in Ireland?


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    #119
    DuckSlice
    Registered Users Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    I don't think there is any right or wrong here, if you want to pay it, pay and don't be giving out about the people that dont want to or cant pay it.


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    #120
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭blackbox


    etxp wrote: »
    I don't think there is any right or wrong here, if you want to pay it, pay and don't be giving out about the people that dont want to or cant pay it.

    I feel quite differently about those who don't want to compared to those who can't.


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    #121
    DuckSlice
    Registered Users Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    Maybe the people that don't want to are concerned about what could happen in the next few weeks with regard to their incomes. Few big companies in Galway are making major cuts this week where as last week they were full steam ahead.


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