Lough Currane

Mr Bumble · 01-09-2017 3:37pm #1

As a long time visitor to Currane with a boat on the lough, I've experienced a steady decline in catches over the last five or six years to a point now where I believe the lough is in crisis.
For the last three years at least, sea trout smolt have returned days after their run to sea covered in sea lice and there is pictorial eveidence of this.
Fish counter returns, while nothing better than a general indicator, have collapsed from a high point of 25,000 to 3,500 last year.
The lake is 2,500 acres. In crude terms, that's a bit more than one sea trout per acre. Think about it!
I've fished about 30 days this season but stopped in June. Had enough. Two sea-trout in total - small juners.
If you follow the Currane blog, you wil see how stark the collapse is. Compare August in 2010 to the month just gone by. I think there were 23 blank days. Ma, June and July were no better.

I've always accepted that Currane is a fickle lough and that only those with very refined local knowledge can speak with authority. The visiting angler, even with a boat there, can only hope to absorb some of what is important.

For the last three years in particular, nobody is catching, Salmon are still present in reasonable numbers but drifting for sea-trout is all but pointless.

If you have someone on the oars and can hammer known marks, you'll still catch a few.

My boat is in Coffey's Bay and in recent years, more and more boats are out of the water. People are voting with their feet.

Unfortunately, there is no appetite in Waterville to talk about this. The town is booming with the development of the second golf course and money pouring in from America.

But the lake is broken and because nobody wants to talk about it, specimen sea-trout (no more than a half dozen since the start of the year) are still being knocked on the head.
At the very least, Lough Currane should be catch and release. It was supposed to be for salmon too but the IFI changed their mind after local pressure.
For those who love Currane, these are very worrying days.

Rows Grower · 04-09-2017 7:39pm

Well said Mr. Bumble, I wasn't aware of the statistics as I'm only new to this computer lark and a technophobe if the truth be told.

I am however aware that the sea trout fishing is gone to the dogs over the last 10 years, the amount of seals in the bay has to be a factor but the salmon farming is deffo upsetting the natural balance.

The salmon farms should be renamed sea lice farms because that is literally what they are.

You are dead right when you say the locals are not noticing or willing to talk about the biggest natural asset the area has slowly slipping away, there is just as much money to be made from fishing as there is from golf in the long term. If both sports were marketed (and the fishing protected) properly it would be a huge boost to not only Waterville but the whole of south Kerry.

It's a crying shame to see what was once one of the top sea trout fisheries in Europe being left to decline so rapidly without so much as a whimper.

Fair play to you for highlighting what could soon be our lost heritage.

Mr Bumble · 05-09-2017 10:51am

It seems to be a combination of issues. This summer has created the perfect conditions for sea lice.....prolonged warm weather, no rain to flush through the bay so it is only likely to get worse. There seems to be a secondary issue of a disease called agp which impacts on gills. Fish weakened by lice predation are super-vulnerable. In recent years, I've caught several what I would describe as "soft" fish - they look like fresh fish just in until you handle them and they have no muscle tone. I'm told this is a different disease entirely but either way, it is possible that many young sea trout are simply dying at sea which would better explain the fact that numbers seem to have dropped off a cliff.
The bad winters in 2009/10 when bitter cold arrived as the sea-trout were spawning is also a factor in this but the system would have righted itself by now if there were not other influences on survival rate for young sea trout.
As things stand, the cohort of fish between 2 and 4 lbs have all but disappeared entirely and juners have not appeared in any decent numbers for the last three or four years.
Salmon still survive because smolt don't hang around in the bay. Currane's sea trout don't travel far to feed.
There is some suggestion that the IFI will invesitgate all of this but it is taking too long and vested interests have no appetite for a bad news story which is exactly what this is.
The fish farm owners intend expansion on all their sites in the area including Deenish which is the one in the firing line for Waterville.
The battle line at the moment is the Bantry Bay expansion and everyone who wants to fight for our sea trout and salmon is focused on that and the current and future threat to West Cork rivers.

But there is any even bigger calamity unfolding right now in what is supposed to be on of the best sea trout lakes in Europe and nobody is talking about it.

kildare lad · 05-09-2017 10:17pm

came across this on another forum, it might interest you

https://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/general-board/111930-waterville-lakes-rivers-trust-survey.html

Zzippy · 05-09-2017 11:10pm

Mr Bumble wrote: »

It seems to be a combination of issues. This summer has created the perfect conditions for sea lice.....prolonged warm weather, no rain to flush through the bay so it is only likely to get worse. There seems to be a secondary issue of a disease called agp which impacts on gills. Fish weakened by lice predation are super-vulnerable. In recent years, I've caught several what I would describe as "soft" fish - they look like fresh fish just in until you handle them and they have no muscle tone. I'm told this is a different disease entirely but either way, it is possible that many young sea trout are simply dying at sea which would better explain the fact that numbers seem to have dropped off a cliff.
The bad winters in 2009/10 when bitter cold arrived as the sea-trout were spawning is also a factor in this but the system would have righted itself by now if there were not other influences on survival rate for young sea trout.
As things stand, the cohort of fish between 2 and 4 lbs have all but disappeared entirely and juners have not appeared in any decent numbers for the last three or four years.
Salmon still survive because smolt don't hang around in the bay. Currane's sea trout don't travel far to feed.
There is some suggestion that the IFI will invesitgate all of this but it is taking too long and vested interests have no appetite for a bad news story which is exactly what this is.
The fish farm owners intend expansion on all their sites in the area including Deenish which is the one in the firing line for Waterville.
The battle line at the moment is the Bantry Bay expansion and everyone who wants to fight for our sea trout and salmon is focused on that and the current and future threat to West Cork rivers.

But there is any even bigger calamity unfolding right now in what is supposed to be on of the best sea trout lakes in Europe and nobody is talking about it.

It's actually the other way round. AGD = Amoebic Gill Disease. A naturally occurring phenomenon which has increased hugely in recent years, probably due to warmer sea temperatures. It basically irritates the fish's gills, and they stop feeding. The problem with that is the anti-lice pesticides are fed to the fish in their feed, so when they stop feeding they are even more badly hit by lice. Lice numbers go up, more lice larvae are released, wild fish are hit worse. Combine with increasing resistance to chemical treatments and you have a perfect storm...
Sad to see our flagship sea trout fishery go this way.

Mr Bumble · 06-09-2017 12:44am

kildare lad wrote: »

came across this on another forum, it might interest you

https://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/general-board/111930-waterville-lakes-rivers-trust-survey.html

There's a great deal of hand-wringing in the thread which is fair enough but won't help a great deal.
The one important post is the link to Frank and Anne Donnelly's guesthouse which is now up for sale, a fact which tells its own very stark story.

An issue mentioned is netting and I have no doubt that the lake and rivers in the system have been and are being netted. They can't be getting much these days but even small scale poaching has become a bigger and bigger issue as the stock reduces so dramatically. One pull of the net can take out what might be a very precious shoal of fresh run fish.
I have found and reported nets. I've cut them as have others.

Other practical measures coud be taken straight away by the local assocation to make the fishery entirely catch and release for sea trout for the rest of the season. It would be a small and thing but would send a message.
You can't solve a problem until you acknowledge that there is one.

Mr Bumble · 06-09-2017 1:00am

Zzippy...thanks for the clarification.....as I delve further into this I'm finding that it is deeply complex...ie different varities of lice, timing of drop off in fresh water and how this impacts on test results, siting of tests, the weather, the tides and probably a lot more I've not mentioned and don't know about yet.
You mentioned AGD in the pens.....there is a school of thought among some close to this that increased AGD in wild fish may have become a significant if not dominant part of the problem.

Zzippy · 06-09-2017 9:24pm

Mr Bumble wrote: »

Zzippy...thanks for the clarification.....as I delve further into this I'm finding that it is deeply complex...ie different varities of lice, timing of drop off in fresh water and how this impacts on test results, siting of tests, the weather, the tides and probably a lot more I've not mentioned and don't know about yet.
You mentioned AGD in the pens.....there is a school of thought among some close to this that increased AGD in wild fish may have become a significant if not dominant part of the problem.

I haven't heard that speculation about AGD and wild fish before, and there is no way to know for sure. I think it's possibly unlikely though - AGD peaks in late summer/autumn with increasing water temperatures. Smolts are migrating in spring when temps are much lower. Adult salmon are returning in summer and even if they get infected they soon enter freshwater which is an effective treatment. Farmed salmon can't go anywhere so they certainly get hit badly. The fish farming companies will get no sympathy from me, though. Get yer dirty industry out of our waters!

Rows Grower · 06-09-2017 10:51pm

Zzippy wrote: »

I haven't heard that speculation about AGD and wild fish before, and there is no way to know for sure. I think it's possibly unlikely though - AGD peaks in late summer/autumn with increasing water temperatures. Smolts are migrating in spring when temps are much lower. Adult salmon are returning in summer and even if they get infected they soon enter freshwater which is an effective treatment. Farmed salmon can't go anywhere so they certainly get hit badly. The fish farming companies will get no sympathy from me, though. Get yer dirty industry out of our waters!

Lest we forget, where did the 230,000 farmed salmon that escaped from the Bantry Bay farm after a storm a few years ago go to, and what was the knock on effect?

The silence on that particular elephant in the room is deafening.

Zzippy · 07-09-2017 8:52pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Lest we forget, where did the 230,000 farmed salmon that escaped from the Bantry Bay farm after a storm a few years ago go to, and what was the knock on effect?

The silence on that particular elephant in the room is deafening.

They didn't show up in angling catches in the region, so the farmer's claim that they died in the storm that smashed up the cages is possibly valid. Then again, we have no evidence there were that many fish on the farm beforehand, just the farmer's word for it. Which would have been what he told the insurance company too. Not making a connection there, mind...

Rows Grower · 07-09-2017 9:45pm

Zzippy wrote: »

They didn't show up in angling catches in the region, so the farmer's claim that they died in the storm that smashed up the cages is possibly valid. Then again, we have no evidence there were that many fish on the farm beforehand, just the farmer's word for it. Which would have been what he told the insurance company too. Not making a connection there, mind...

Right so Ted.

Mr Bumble · 08-09-2017 12:52am

Currane has a second run of smolt in October which would hit the sea at the time of highest temps.
The smolt that came back and have been photographed covered in lice came from the earlier run which can be anything from April through to June depending on weather, etc. Damage to the second run is impossible to quantify but the overall impact is a collapse.
Sea trout come and go all year round. I've caught fresh fish in January. What's needed is a serious study to try and pin down some accurate data about the system. There's plenty there already from the hatchery I would assume but it needs an investment of time and money. Not much of either around.

A few of the farm fish from the escape showed up but not many. I think that lad is getting out of salmon farming.

Rows Grower · 13-09-2017 3:37pm

Mr Bumble wrote: »

It seems to be a combination of issues. This summer has created the perfect conditions for sea lice.....prolonged warm weather, no rain to flush through the bay so it is only likely to get worse. There seems to be a secondary issue of a disease called agp which impacts on gills. Fish weakened by lice predation are super-vulnerable. In recent years, I've caught several what I would describe as "soft" fish - they look like fresh fish just in until you handle them and they have no muscle tone. I'm told this is a different disease entirely but either way, it is possible that many young sea trout are simply dying at sea which would better explain the fact that numbers seem to have dropped off a cliff.
The bad winters in 2009/10 when bitter cold arrived as the sea-trout were spawning is also a factor in this but the system would have righted itself by now if there were not other influences on survival rate for young sea trout.
As things stand, the cohort of fish between 2 and 4 lbs have all but disappeared entirely and juners have not appeared in any decent numbers for the last three or four years.
Salmon still survive because smolt don't hang around in the bay. Currane's sea trout don't travel far to feed.
There is some suggestion that the IFI will invesitgate all of this but it is taking too long and vested interests have no appetite for a bad news story which is exactly what this is.
The fish farm owners intend expansion on all their sites in the area including Deenish which is the one in the firing line for Waterville.
The battle line at the moment is the Bantry Bay expansion and everyone who wants to fight for our sea trout and salmon is focused on that and the current and future threat to West Cork rivers.

But there is any even bigger calamity unfolding right now in what is supposed to be on of the best sea trout lakes in Europe and nobody is talking about it.

On the ball again Mr. Bumble, currently advertising for full and part time operatives.

Mr Bumble · 14-09-2017 4:32pm

Anyone who follows the Currane blog will have seen anther dead specimen sea trout in the last few days. Madness.

Straffan1979 · 14-09-2017 9:41pm

Very worthwhile discussion. We are facing a huge crisis in our rivers and lakes in Co.Kerry. I have fished the Annascaul lake and river system since the early 1980s and it is now totally devastated and more ar less devoit of life; the last 6 weeks the river is actually dead to the extent that u might think there was a fish kill but it has been like this for years; the very odd grilse is still running thats it.
I have also heard reports of this phenomenon of smolts returning early and have heard it mentioned in the Owenmore system in Brandon. I walked a few miles of the Lispole/Milltown/Feoanach river in last fortnight with the polaroids and they too are in very poor shape with very few fish in evidence in the pools barring a scattering of grilse in the western spate rivers. It has crossed my mind that this collapse of sea trout could also be disease related. We had the massive collapse in the 90's with lice but there was still some few around; it seems total devastation last few years.
It appears to be somewhat in line with a collapse of whitefish stocks in our bays over the last 5-6 years. Trawling is now so poor that there has been no boats working whitefish for the last 3 -5 years in Dingle bay. There are now no whitefish( cod/haddock/ whiting) east of 70 fathoms in Dingle bay. To put this in context this would be from a line drawn from the Skellig to the Foze rock west of the Blasket Islands. This is repeated on the south coast to Galway bay. The total collapse of all our inshore herring stocks is not helping.
I was attacked for pointing out of a FB post that suely them big sea trout should be C&R-very difficult road ahead for the rivers!

Mr Bumble · 15-09-2017 1:22pm

I know Frank from the Owenmore and I've heard that smolt came back this year. It's still in reasonably good shape but every river will be under threat if Deenish expands.
I've hear Annascaul is poached to death as well as everything else but the small rivers on the other side, Scairt no mBo etc are still showing fish. The two rivers in Cahirciveen used to be full of sea trout but very few left.
The Inny is almost a dead river. Still legal nets on it as well as the illegal ones.
Sneem, Kerry Blackwater, Finnihy, Roughty, Sheen, Inchquin system and Clonee were all full of sea trout but the only one i hear is okay is Glanmore.
Capal Lake above Currane apparently had 22 sea trout last season. Nothing out of Derriana and Cloonaghlin.
If you read the Currane blog, you'll see the problem. There is no problem. A handful of Belgian and English anglers catch some fish under oars after paying €150 for the day and this proves that hundreds of others who have been catching nothing are fools. Complete denial and visiting anglers killing sea trout.
This has always been a problem and it's not just because visitors from other countries are not encouraged to release fish. They seem to think it's okay to be lawless in Ireland and of course, they are right. Every spring, visiting anglers go home from Kerry with more frozen salmon than they should have. One I heard of killed ten in a week in May 2016. This is not unusual. A lot of anglers restricted by C&R on their own rivers come here to kill fish but they don't seem to be happy to just catch their limit. This stuff needs to be called out now. Nod and wink destroys everything and only suits a few at the expense of all.
BTW I believe the collapse in the 90s coincided with the first fish farms in the area. They solved the problem by flushing the pens with chemicals. Not working so welll now.

Straffan1979 · 15-09-2017 9:22pm

Mr Bumble wrote: »

I know Frank from the Owenmore and I've heard that smolt came back this year. It's still in reasonably good shape but every river will be under threat if Deenish expands.
I've hear Annascaul is poached to death as well as everything else but the small rivers on the other side, Scairt no mBo etc are still showing fish. The two rivers in Cahirciveen used to be full of sea trout but very few left.
The Inny is almost a dead river. Still legal nets on it as well as the illegal ones.
Sneem, Kerry Blackwater, Finnihy, Roughty, Sheen, Inchquin system and Clonee were all full of sea trout but the only one i hear is okay is Glanmore.
Capal Lake above Currane apparently had 22 sea trout last season. Nothing out of Derriana and Cloonaghlin.
If you read the Currane blog, you'll see the problem. There is no problem. A handful of Belgian and English anglers catch some fish under oars after paying €150 for the day and this proves that hundreds of others who have been catching nothing are fools. Complete denial and visiting anglers killing sea trout.
This has always been a problem and it's not just because visitors from other countries are not encouraged to release fish. They seem to think it's okay to be lawless in Ireland and of course, they are right. Every spring, visiting anglers go home from Kerry with more frozen salmon than they should have. One I heard of killed ten in a week in May 2016. This is not unusual. A lot of anglers restricted by C&R on their own rivers come here to kill fish but they don't seem to be happy to just catch their limit. This stuff needs to be called out now. Nod and wink destroys everything and only suits a few at the expense of all.
BTW I believe the collapse in the 90s coincided with the first fish farms in the area. They solved the problem by flushing the pens with chemicals. Not working so welll now.

I really dont believe poaching is the problem in Annascaul or elsewhere.It may have a greater impact now that there are so few fish in the river- but the problems extend well beyond this now. Like alot of these spate systems they are impossible to net being so narrow and fast flowing if you get prolonged heavy rain and the fish would reach the lake quite easily if present.
Dont underestimate the impact of the collapse of the massive herring stock that once existed in all our bays. It largely was the basis of the entire ecosystem. At various times of the herring lifecyle all types of fish gorged on herring or on the vast amounts of roe that was deposited in the inshore grounds.On the back of this Dingle bay was probaly the finest bay for flatfish/ whitefish in the country. They used to catch them in the spring along with plentiful stocks of large whiting, haddock etc and when gutting them they would be full of herring roe- any of the older fishermen will tell u that. Obviously sea trout and everthing else were feeding on this roe and id imagine growing large and fat quite quickly. Under the large hill at Kells was a particularly well known spawning ground for herring. All these bays are now more or less devoid of any fish- pelagic/demersal, a sort of commercial extinction.Worse still there is a developing fishery for sprat for fishmeal that is sent to Killybegs to make Salmon feed (ironically enough) in Oct/Nov/Dec. This if it continues will likely be the final death knell of the bays IMO. Hard not to be too negative but its just reality of our fish stocks as they stand. The feed at the bottom of the ecosystem that sustained these bays is gone and unlikely to return.

Mr Bumble · 19-09-2017 12:26am

All very worrying. I wasn't aware that the inshore waters were as bad as that. As I said above, this is a very complex thing.

popsy09 · 27-09-2017 9:44pm

My friend has a holiday home below and we had a boat on the lake . You could count on one hand the good days we had on the lake trolling and on fly

Boat is out of water now and won't be going back I'n . If you can get the comeragh river on a flood it's productive but the lake is in trouble

SeaFields · 29-09-2017 11:14am

While I agree with the sentiment being expressed on the thread, just some good news I see online, a ten and a half pound seatrout on the fly released last week according to reports. What a fish!

Mr Bumble · 30-09-2017 10:00pm

Great fish alright. We may need them badly in the coming years.
I've been in Waterville for a few weeks now and will be here until the end of the season. In varying conditions (mostly quite good with sw/w/nw winds and mild. Lake is quite high) drifting, I've had one small sea trout and a lot of small brown trout (a lot!!). Also silvering smolt getting ready to leave in the next month and fish which are clearly smolt but have a strong yellow colour (early returns?).
Rolled one decent fish so far and had a couple of healthy looking browns to 2lbs. No sea trout. One of the most active ghillies has 29 sea trout to his boat for the season. If the lake was healthy, he would have brought hundreds to his boat.
There is now a quiet acknolwedgement of the problem but there is no focus which is desperately needed. I mentioned in another thread how effective the Oughterard campaign is. Perhaps it leans towards hysteria but nobody can deny how effective the message delivery has been.
There is nothing hysterical about my grave fear for Currane and no way to overstate the problem The fish farms at Deenish and around the corner in the Kenmare river are the root of the problem. Sea lice have been proven to travel 20k and beyond in currents and this may explain why the ownermore had sea liced smolt returning.
It may also be complicated by other factors as discussed above, specifically the collapse of inshore stocks but I've seen the video of small sea trout in the Butler Pool covered in lice returning weeks after they left and it cannot be denied.
AGD was raised at the Bantry oral hearing and the possibility that it is now a problem for wild fish appears to be a live one.
It's in the cleaner wrasse in the pens and apparently, only lungfish are immune.

Mr Bumble · 03-10-2017 1:44am

http://www.salmon.ie/2017/10/freedom-of-informationfriends-of-irish.html?spref=fb

This is outrageous. No wonder Currane is dying.

Mr Bumble · 06-10-2017 9:43am

Slightly better fishing in the last week. Got one decent sea trout to 3lbs (female and quite thin) and four juners plus several decent brownies to 2lb again. Very few fishing the lake. Perfect conditions on three of the days this week.

Mr Bumble · 07-10-2017 1:15pm

They're killing big sea trout and calling them brown trout now. Shameful
http://wwwsalmonandseatroutphotos.blogspot.ie/

popsy09 · 07-10-2017 2:11pm

Mr Bumble wrote: »

They're killing big sea trout and calling them brown trout now. Shameful
http://wwwsalmonandseatroutphotos.blogspot.ie/

I know the fish shouldn't of been killed regardless but it looks like a brown trout to me

My friend had one this year over 5lb from around black Rock

Mr Bumble · 07-10-2017 11:37pm

Impossible to tell from the snap. Too far to tell one way or other. I've caught browns to 5lb in Currane and I'm sure there must be fish over 6lb too and maybe even bigger. It's not a small lake but I've never heard of one caught over 5lb and it would be a remarkable fish if it was a brownie and possibly the lake record ( no idea if there even is one for brownies). Yet no claim made.
Either way, it's two or three weeks from spawning if it's a brownie and a month if it's a sea trout. Why would you kill it?
My own belief is it's a sea trout. It has the right shape for the deep, humpy male sea trout of that weight you get in Currane. People who know the lake better than me are of the same opinion.
I get the sense of a middle finger being shown here. There's almost a sense of wilfulness about it. Like a big child saying f**k you.

popsy09 · 08-10-2017 5:26am

Mr Bumble wrote: »

Impossible to tell from the snap. Too far to tell one way or other. I've caught browns to 5lb in Currane and I'm sure there must be fish over 6lb too and maybe even bigger. It's not a small lake but I've never heard of one caught over 5lb and it would be a remarkable fish if it was a brownie and possibly the lake record ( no idea if there even is one for brownies). Yet no claim made.
Either way, it's two or three weeks from spawning if it's a brownie and a month if it's a sea trout. Why would you kill it?
My own belief is it's a sea trout. It has the right shape for the deep, humpy male sea trout of that weight you get in Currane. People who know the lake better than me are of the same opinion.
I get the sense of a middle finger being shown here. There's almost a sense of wilfulness about it. Like a big child saying f**k you.

I'm sure I seen some one say they examined the fish and said it was a brown trout

Either way what would ya even do with that fish it wouldn't be good eating .. maybe he is planning on getting it stuffed and mounted on a plaque or something

I never mind anyone killing fish I'm not one of the catch and release fanatics but surely a bit of common sense should have been used with the time of year and the fact it's a once in a lifetime fish . He could of had a very similar photo with the fish alive and returned it .

There should be a law in place anyway to stop him doing such thing if it's a brown trout then no tag is needed so technically he didn't do anything wrong

Mr Bumble · 08-10-2017 8:44am

The only reference to scales is from an anonymous poster on the blog. If he put his name to it, I might put more credence in it. The only sure way to tell is under a microscope
The main point here is that the lake is in serious trouble, not that he killed a fish. It's the combination of both which makes it so stupid. As I said - a bit of a f**k you to everyone.

Copal · 01-03-2018 3:36pm

i paid a visit to Currane in 2017 and '16 and all the ghillies and locals i bumped into were telling me the same, that the lake was in big big decline. unfortunatley for many down there catch and kill is the standard done thing, and because of the lack of fish numbers a lot of travelling anglers cannot justify the expense for the trip down without taking a fish, if they even manage to get one.

Mr Bumble · 02-03-2018 4:02pm

I've talked to some who walked the spawning streams late last year and saw very few sea trout. The Finglas river at the Butler pool is a big spawning river for sea trout and again, only a handful spotted. No catch and release for and dead salmon on show in the blog again. Talk of a 14lb sea trout caught but that went quiet quickly. Wonder if it's dead.........

SeaFields · 03-03-2018 8:33am

Yes, nothing but tagged fish on any report I've seen from Currane so far. It's infuriating to be honest. In it for the money and nothing else.

Lough Currane

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