Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Yeah Madigan won't weaken our squad, he will strengthen it

Backs next season

Scrum Half
John Cooney
Alby Mathewson
Dave Shanahan
Jonny Stewart

Outhalf
Billy Burns
Bill Johnston
Ian Madigan*
Mike Lowry*
Angus Curtis*

Centre
Stewart McCloskey
James Hume
Stewart Moore
Angus Curtis*
Ian Madigan*
Luke Marshall
Will Addison*
Matt Faddes*
Louis Ludik*

Wings
Jacob Stockdale*
Rob Balacoune
Craig Gilroy
Matt Faddes*
Louis Ludik*

Full Back
Will Addison*
Jacob Stockdale*
Matt Faddes*
Louis Ludik*
Ian Madigan*

There is so much versatility in our back options.

I didn't include Academy players.

Dog Botherer wrote: »

if nothing else an 85%+ international standard kicker that can cover 3 positions is just about the best bench option a coach could ask for.

assuming his goal kicking is still as good as it was a few years back anyway.

This was actually my first thought on the signing. Remember not too long ago we had big Stu taking the place kicks for us.
He actually wasn't too shabby neither!!

Madigan played 12 earlier this season in a European Challenge Cup game. First time wearing 12 since he was at Leinster. He hasn't played 15 in about 6 or 7 years but I'm sure he could cover there from the bench. I'd imagine he's coming with the aim of getting time at 10 though. That was one of the reasons he left Leinster.

I'd say he's very optimistic if he's thinks he'll add to his Irish caps though. When he left, he was 3rd choice behind Sexton and Jackson. Munster had Keatley and Holland (Keatley having been selected ahead of Madigan for the 2015 6N). Not a lot of depth there.

Now we have literally 4 lads who have been capped against tier one nations in the past 12 months and all of whom have looked capable of playing there and improving. Billy Burns is also there and deserves a cap at some point now too. We might not have a world class outhalf in the making but we're probably better stocked at 10 than we have been at any point since Ollie Campbell, Tony Ward, Paul Dean and Mick Quinn were all playing (I don't remember that, I'm just throwing that in there for Jaco).

And, of course, Ulster don't want him being involved in the Irish squad. They didn't sign him to lose him for several games a season.

Buer wrote: »

Madigan played 12 earlier this season in a European Challenge Cup game. First time wearing 12 since he was at Leinster. He hasn't played 15 in about 6 or 7 years but I'm sure he could cover there from the bench. I'd imagine he's coming with the aim of getting time at 10 though. That was one of the reasons he left Leinster.

I'd say he's very optimistic if he's thinks he'll add to his Irish caps though. When he left, he was 3rd choice behind Sexton and Jackson. Munster had Keatley and Holland (Keatley having been selected ahead of Madigan for the 2015 6N). Not a lot of depth there.

Now we have literally 4 lads who have been capped against tier one nations in the past 12 months and all of whom have looked capable of playing there and improving. Billy Burns is also there and deserves a cap at some point now too. We might not have a world class outhalf in the making but we're probably better stocked at 10 than we have been at any point since Ollie Campbell, Tony Ward, Paul Dean and Mick Quinn were all playing (I don't remember that, I'm just throwing that in there for Jaco).

And, of course, Ulster don't want him being involved in the Irish squad. They didn't sign him to lose him for several games a season.

I agree. Of the newbies, Harry Byrne looks the real deal.....and I have to say I think Ross is a top notch player. If only he had a bit more acceleration / top end speed. WE probably have the best collection of aspiring 10s in Ireland ....well, ever. And it's not unusual for a player to appear 'out of nowhere' who takes the place by storm.

Kingspan Stadium: Ulster offer facility to Department of Health

Interesting.

http://https//www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/how-ulster-became-the-first-irish-side-to-match-the-mighty-all-blacks-39082520.html



While Ravenhill lies dormant amidst rugby's shutdown, those missing the action are naturally drawn back through history, reflecting on some of the titanic tussles the ground has witnessed since opening in 1919.

For most, 1999 will always be king, the day a highly talented and highly confident Stade Francais arrived in Belfast for a European Cup semi-final as champions-elect only to be beaten by spirited hosts and some David Humphreys magic.

For those with longer memories, it's the night the Grand Slam Wallabies came in 1984 only for Campese and co to lose out to the kicking boots of Philip Rainey. An achievement that is arguably the equal of both, however, has been lost somewhat to time - the day in 1935 that the province became the first Irish side to match the All Blacks.

Ulster had not featured on the schedule of the 1905 All Blacks - 'The Originals' who began the aura of mystique that persists to this day - although were at least connected to the tour with the Donegal native Davy Gallaher captaining one of the most famous rugby sides of all time.

The Second All Blacks did stop off in Belfast, Ulster suffering the same fate as every other challenger on another tour that would go down in lore. 'The Invincibles' returned with contrasting memories of Ulster hospitality, Read Masters remembering both the "very cordial welcome" given by a 16,000 crowd the day of the game only after the visitors had their luggage searched for firearms when crossing the recently-established border by "Belfast police wearing heavy colt revolvers in their belts".

Even in such early days, rugby fans knew what awaited Ulster was a tall order, while their side's form in the build-up to the eagerly-awaited encounter was further cause for concern.


If a journalist writing under the pen name Criticus could describe the side's margin of victory in an 8-3 win over Munster as "humiliating" given that the hosts in Cork had lost a forward to injury, then perhaps the hand-wringing over a ninth consecutive loss to Leinster in Belfast should have been expected.

"As one of the many disgusted spectators who were present at Ravenhill on Saturday, I wish to make a suggestion regarding the match to be played against the All Blacks," read a letter to the editor published by The Northern Whig in the build-up to the team announcement for the All Blacks' visit.

"In view of the dearth of first-class three-quarters in Ulster, I think the selectors should invite one or two capable players from outside the province who would give some stability to the back division and prevent the game becoming a debacle as would undoubtedly be the case were last Saturday's team to take the field against New Zealand.

"After all, the purpose of the game is to give the people of the North of Ireland an opportunity of seeing this splendid combination from overseas playing at its best. This is only possible if the opposition we provide is worthy. We do not want to see a massacre."

The tourists, not considered of the same vintage as those classes of 1905 and '24, had their own travails in the build-up. The meeting with Ulster was to be their 22nd of a 30-game tour, one that had begun with a 34-day boat journey. Upon arrival, tour manager Vincent Meredith - a stern chap who dismissed the haka as 'dancing' - had his mood worsened, his men losing to a club side for the first time when beaten by Swansea, although they had still comfortably overcome Scotland in the first Test of the trip with Pat Caughey grabbing attention with a hat-trick.

No armed customs checks this time around, the All Blacks took the ferry from Stranraer to Larne and were the biggest story in town, their arrival and subsequent reception with James Craig at Stormont considered front-page news.

Feted whenever they left the doors of the grand surroundings of the Imperial Hotel that once stood on the corner of Donegal Place and Castle Lane, a highlight of the visit reportedly came with a visit to the Royal Hippodrome, the theatre that has since been demolished to become the Fitzwilliam hotel.

Like any Kiwi panel, though, rugby was at the forefront of their thoughts. Training at the Ormeau pitches, there were some concerns with Jim 'Rusty' Page and Bill Hadley out injured, but the side named to take the field at Ravenhill were no dirt-trackers. Indeed, 11 of their 15 would be a part of the side that beat Ireland at Lansdowne Road a week later.

Ulster, meanwhile, knew that their strength lay up front.

Prop Douglas Kendrew - or to give him his full title Major General Sir Douglas Kendrew - was an English captain who had toured with the Lions in 1930, was to wed a girl from Donegal and, although a Leicester Tiger, had been turning out for Derry.

Belfast-born No.8 Sam Walker - who remarkably would feature at four different forward positions over the course of his 18 caps - would end his Test career captaining the Lions in South Africa, while Collegians back-rower Jack Siggins was Ireland skipper.

For a team so slanted towards forward play, they got exactly what they would have wanted when waking up that November morning - filthy weather.

As supporters and curious onlookers alike - a large number on special trains from Derry costing the princely sum of seven pennies - made their way to the ground, the rain came down in floods. Those in the press box wrote of having to "shake the water from our hats" and "notebooks turned to pulp" - some things never change - but one who certainly enjoyed what he saw was Howard Marshall of the Daily Telegraph.

"What a headlong, roaring fury of a game," he began his match report for Monday morning's papers.

The All Blacks took the lead when co-author of the tour diary Eric Tindall - a dual international who once caught Don Bradman for 11 - broke through the midfield and kicked ahead for Jack Hart to score a try worth three points. Ulster were level only three minutes later when Tom Dunn - who would have a strong showing in his sole Test cap a week later - dribbled over from a wheeled scrum.

Low-scoring, it had been the battle of attrition that so beguiled Marshall, the efforts of "the whole (Ulster) pack, those mud-plastered heroes" drawing particular praise, though there was one more moment of drama when a drop goal attempt from Mike Gilbert sailed between the posts, appearing to offer redemption for the kicker who had missed six shots at goal only for the ref to decree it had been touched by Victor Hewitt in flight, negating the effort under the laws of the day.

The final whistle and draw was greeted by cheers from Ulster fans and neutrals alike, a result given substantially greater weight by the decades that followed. Ulster would remarkably repeat the feat in 1954 but it would be 1973 before any other Irish side avoided defeat against the fearsome All Blacks.

Fading in the years since, it's a piece of history that has since been eclipsed. Munster's win in 1978 is the stuff of legend while Ireland got their own first victory in 111 years of trying in 2016.

But at the time, it was the quality of the game as much as the size of the achievement that resonated.

"As stirring a game as I ever wish to see," concluded Howard.

Certainly one worth remembering, even 85 years on.

Belfast Telegraph

jacothelad wrote: »

Interesting.

http://https//www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/how-ulster-became-the-first-irish-side-to-match-the-mighty-all-blacks-39082520.html



While Ravenhill lies dormant amidst rugby's shutdown, those missing the action are naturally drawn back through history, reflecting on some of the titanic tussles the ground has witnessed since opening in 1919.

For most, 1999 will always be king, the day a highly talented and highly confident Stade Francais arrived in Belfast for a European Cup semi-final as champions-elect only to be beaten by spirited hosts and some David Humphreys magic.

For those with longer memories, it's the night the Grand Slam Wallabies came in 1984 only for Campese and co to lose out to the kicking boots of Philip Rainey. An achievement that is arguably the equal of both, however, has been lost somewhat to time - the day in 1935 that the province became the first Irish side to match the All Blacks.

Ulster had not featured on the schedule of the 1905 All Blacks - 'The Originals' who began the aura of mystique that persists to this day - although were at least connected to the tour with the Donegal native Davy Gallaher captaining one of the most famous rugby sides of all time.

The Second All Blacks did stop off in Belfast, Ulster suffering the same fate as every other challenger on another tour that would go down in lore. 'The Invincibles' returned with contrasting memories of Ulster hospitality, Read Masters remembering both the "very cordial welcome" given by a 16,000 crowd the day of the game only after the visitors had their luggage searched for firearms when crossing the recently-established border by "Belfast police wearing heavy colt revolvers in their belts".

Even in such early days, rugby fans knew what awaited Ulster was a tall order, while their side's form in the build-up to the eagerly-awaited encounter was further cause for concern.


If a journalist writing under the pen name Criticus could describe the side's margin of victory in an 8-3 win over Munster as "humiliating" given that the hosts in Cork had lost a forward to injury, then perhaps the hand-wringing over a ninth consecutive loss to Leinster in Belfast should have been expected.

"As one of the many disgusted spectators who were present at Ravenhill on Saturday, I wish to make a suggestion regarding the match to be played against the All Blacks," read a letter to the editor published by The Northern Whig in the build-up to the team announcement for the All Blacks' visit.

"In view of the dearth of first-class three-quarters in Ulster, I think the selectors should invite one or two capable players from outside the province who would give some stability to the back division and prevent the game becoming a debacle as would undoubtedly be the case were last Saturday's team to take the field against New Zealand.

"After all, the purpose of the game is to give the people of the North of Ireland an opportunity of seeing this splendid combination from overseas playing at its best. This is only possible if the opposition we provide is worthy. We do not want to see a massacre."

The tourists, not considered of the same vintage as those classes of 1905 and '24, had their own travails in the build-up. The meeting with Ulster was to be their 22nd of a 30-game tour, one that had begun with a 34-day boat journey. Upon arrival, tour manager Vincent Meredith - a stern chap who dismissed the haka as 'dancing' - had his mood worsened, his men losing to a club side for the first time when beaten by Swansea, although they had still comfortably overcome Scotland in the first Test of the trip with Pat Caughey grabbing attention with a hat-trick.

No armed customs checks this time around, the All Blacks took the ferry from Stranraer to Larne and were the biggest story in town, their arrival and subsequent reception with James Craig at Stormont considered front-page news.

Feted whenever they left the doors of the grand surroundings of the Imperial Hotel that once stood on the corner of Donegal Place and Castle Lane, a highlight of the visit reportedly came with a visit to the Royal Hippodrome, the theatre that has since been demolished to become the Fitzwilliam hotel.

Like any Kiwi panel, though, rugby was at the forefront of their thoughts. Training at the Ormeau pitches, there were some concerns with Jim 'Rusty' Page and Bill Hadley out injured, but the side named to take the field at Ravenhill were no dirt-trackers. Indeed, 11 of their 15 would be a part of the side that beat Ireland at Lansdowne Road a week later.

Ulster, meanwhile, knew that their strength lay up front.

Prop Douglas Kendrew - or to give him his full title Major General Sir Douglas Kendrew - was an English captain who had toured with the Lions in 1930, was to wed a girl from Donegal and, although a Leicester Tiger, had been turning out for Derry.

Belfast-born No.8 Sam Walker - who remarkably would feature at four different forward positions over the course of his 18 caps - would end his Test career captaining the Lions in South Africa, while Collegians back-rower Jack Siggins was Ireland skipper.

For a team so slanted towards forward play, they got exactly what they would have wanted when waking up that November morning - filthy weather.

As supporters and curious onlookers alike - a large number on special trains from Derry costing the princely sum of seven pennies - made their way to the ground, the rain came down in floods. Those in the press box wrote of having to "shake the water from our hats" and "notebooks turned to pulp" - some things never change - but one who certainly enjoyed what he saw was Howard Marshall of the Daily Telegraph.

"What a headlong, roaring fury of a game," he began his match report for Monday morning's papers.

The All Blacks took the lead when co-author of the tour diary Eric Tindall - a dual international who once caught Don Bradman for 11 - broke through the midfield and kicked ahead for Jack Hart to score a try worth three points. Ulster were level only three minutes later when Tom Dunn - who would have a strong showing in his sole Test cap a week later - dribbled over from a wheeled scrum.

Low-scoring, it had been the battle of attrition that so beguiled Marshall, the efforts of "the whole (Ulster) pack, those mud-plastered heroes" drawing particular praise, though there was one more moment of drama when a drop goal attempt from Mike Gilbert sailed between the posts, appearing to offer redemption for the kicker who had missed six shots at goal only for the ref to decree it had been touched by Victor Hewitt in flight, negating the effort under the laws of the day.

The final whistle and draw was greeted by cheers from Ulster fans and neutrals alike, a result given substantially greater weight by the decades that followed. Ulster would remarkably repeat the feat in 1954 but it would be 1973 before any other Irish side avoided defeat against the fearsome All Blacks.

Fading in the years since, it's a piece of history that has since been eclipsed. Munster's win in 1978 is the stuff of legend while Ireland got their own first victory in 111 years of trying in 2016.

But at the time, it was the quality of the game as much as the size of the achievement that resonated.

"As stirring a game as I ever wish to see," concluded Howard.

Certainly one worth remembering, even 85 years on.

Belfast Telegraph

I love reading stuff like that. Great read Jaco.

Were you at the game yourself Jaco?😄

1967 Tour of NZ to these islands led by Brian Lochore did not include games in Ireland due to foot and mouth disease. It would have been interesting to see if the All Blacks could have completed what would have been their first Grand Slam as they beat the other 3 home countries as well as France. Their only blemish was a 3-3 draw against East Wales who were primarily made up of Cardiff players including a 20 year old Gareth Edwards who was at the beginning of his rugby career.

1972/3 All Blacks led by Ian Kirkpatrick came to security conscious Belfast in mid November to play Ulster. Unfortunately for the home team Mike Gibson had injured his back and was unavailable. The Ulster pack included such players as Roger Clegg, WJ McBride (Captain), Jimmy Davidson and Harry Steele. This was my first ever time to see the All Blacks 'in the flesh' and I still have the match programme in my collection. NZ included the great Joe Karam, Brian Williams Sid Going in the back line as well as Andy Haden, Ian Kirkpatrick and the ferocious Alex Wylie in the pack. My memory of the game consists mainly of Ulster having a fair share of territory and possession but unable to turn that into points while the visitors were clinical. So Ulster went down 19-6 but brought the crowd to its feet with a late try in the corner from Harry Steel superbly converted by Brian Marshall from the touchline. I was allowed onto the pitch at the end and patted Andy Haden on the back. Such memories!

1974 All Blacks made a short 8 game tour to Ireland, Wales and England primarily to celebrate the centenary of the IRFU. Having seen off Combined Irish Universities, Munster and Leinster they came to Ravenhill on 16th November to take on Ulster who were again without the mercurial Mike Gibson due to injury. The Ulster pack was largely the same that had faced the tourists just 2 years earlier with Willie John McBride again captaining the team. Billy McCombe at outhalf kicked Ulster into a 12-9 lead at HT but NZ pulled away in the second half with 3 tries and won comfortably in the end 30-15. My lasting memory of this game is that it was played in near perfect conditions and but for Billy McCombe's kicking NZ would have won by an even bigger margin.

1978 All Blacks led by Graham Mourie won their first ever Grand slam but famously lost their unbeaten record in Ireland to Munster. They played Ulster midweek on 7 November 3 days after narrowly defeating Ireland. This meant they took to the field with a largely second string side and they faced an Ulster team who were at the time in a bit of a decline. Mike Gibson was available this time and despite being deprived of possession still stood out making a searing break in the second half. A young Willie Anderson played in the second row and Stuart McKinney captained the team. My memory of this game is that it was dull compared to the previous 2 encounters and Ulster had been largely playing second best to their opponents.

More later.

It was a full 11 years before Ulster faced the All Blacks again when in 1989 Buck Shelford's tourists undertook a tour of Canada, Ireland and Wales with one match in England against the Barbarians to conclude. This was a very strong NZ squad, many of whom had taken part in the inaugural World Cup a couple of years earlier. They breezed through the Welsh leg of the tour and saw off the other 3 Irish provinces before comfortably defeating ireland 23 - 6. Three days later they again faced Ulster midweek, this time under the lights at Ravenhill with a side that included Viaga Tuigamala (later of Wigan RL fame) Frano Botica (also later joined Wigan RL) and up front Ian Jones and Gary Whetton as well as Zinzan Brooke. Ulster was the leading Irish province at the time and included 7 players who had played for Ireland 3 days earlier. Philip Rainey, David Irwin and Keith Crossan in the backs as well as Jimmy McCoy, Willie Anderson and Philip Matthews had also been in the team that defeated the Wallabies 5 years earlier. Although there was only 6 points between the teams at HT, NZ dominated the second half winning 21-3. One of my memories of this occasion is of Ian Kirkpatrick being interviewed on the pitch by BBC NI before the game.
This was the last time Ulster played the All Blacks although the tourists did visit Belfast again in 2001 to take on Ireland A in a short tour which included Test wins over Ireland, Scotland and Argentina. Andy Oliver captained the squad. Due to other commitments I was unable to go to the match at Ulster HQ but for the record NZ won a very open game 43-30 with James Topping, Paddy Wallace, Simon Best all in the starting lineup and both Andy Ward and Justin Fitzpatrick coming off the bench as did a certain Paul O'Connell.

Anyone think it is a pity that the Southern Hemisphere sides no longer play matches against provincial/district/club sides when they tour these islands?

bilston wrote: »

I love reading stuff like that. Great read Jaco.

Were you at the game yourself Jaco?��

I was 16th man......:D

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It also was the day when Stockdale's form started to slide. Has he ever recovered from that dropped ball?



Hopefully when this is over he is back playing some great rugby again!!!

He was playing very well at FB in the European Cup around Christmas. But yeah there's no doubt you can go back to that day and say that's where his form started to dip.

Even in the 2019 6Ns he was going well enough (not at 2018 level), I remember the game in Rome that year Italy couldn't handle him.

thomond2006 wrote: »

They did midweek games in tours in the early part of the last decade. Then they seemed to be quietly retired. I imagine it didn't financially add up for the travelling test team to bring 10-15 extra players in the squad.

Yes I remember Australia losing to Ospreys and at long last beating Cardiff in midweek games but it is some time iirc that NZ has played a club/provincial team on these islands. Wasn't Munster in 2008 the last time?
Yet some of their most memorable matches in the past have been against these non test sides. Apart from Munster's famous win in 1978, there was Llanell's triumph in 1972, the Northern Division's victory in 1979 (watched this recently on Youtube) and the Midland Division's win in 1983. Scotland remains the only part of these islands where NZ have never been beaten.