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New tenants

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  • 18-04-2019 7:31pm
    #1
    The Polisher
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭


    New tenants in place less than a month have painted (if you could call it painting)without permission . They also now have a dog which I was unaware of. I've asked to to leave! What are my options? What should I do?


Comments

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    #2
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,231 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Tell them you expect both paint and dog removed. Then serve notice.


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    #3
    The Polisher
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭The Polisher


    endacl wrote: »
    Tell them you expect both paint and dig removed. Then serve notice.

    How much notice required a tenancy less than a month?


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    #4
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭Browney7


    The Polisher wrote: »
    New tenants in place less than a month have painted (if you could call it painting)without permission . They also now have a dog which I was unaware of. I've asked to to leave! What are my options? What should I do?

    Have you given them a fixed term lease?


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    #5
    The Polisher
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭The Polisher


    Browney7 wrote: »
    Have you given them a fixed term lease?

    No.... didn't get round to it ,....registered with rtb only


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    #6
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Follow the full legal route but don't be surprised if they stop payment, don't leave and you then stuck for months trying to get them out.


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    #7
    Roisin76
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 29 ✭Roisin76


    As there is no contract I guess they did not brake it by moving in with a dog? How was the interior? Recently painted or rather not? Any chance walls were in need of painting so they did the job?

    Also, why would they stop paying? Because they have a dog and painted the walls?


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    #8
    utmbuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭utmbuilder


    Make sure 6 months to a year without rent wouldn't ruin you

    They don't have rights yet but still has to go through a 2 months process of rtb adjudication , 1 month waiting for post of order determination , 2 months appeal, 1 month waiting for appeal order

    Then enforcement another 3 months at least, they will probally. Leg it at this point.

    If they just moved in and likely experiences the turmoil of the market they know the system and probally won't go and will stop paying to stock pile funds for next property


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    #9
    overkill602
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭overkill602


    U must issue a 28 day no reason immediately download from RTB only valid for the first 6 months of a tenancy where a lease is not in place, otherwise:
    they will fcuk u over big time do not talk with them be sure to give an extra day over the 28 day notice.
    They know they should have waited six till after the six months then they would be untouchable such as tenants rights are these days.


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    #10
    The Polisher
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭The Polisher


    overkill602 wrote: »
    U must issue a 28 day no reason immediately download from RTB only valid for the first 6 months of a tenancy where a lease is not in place, otherwise:
    they will fcuk u over big time do not talk with them be sure to give an extra day over the 28 day notice.
    They know they should have waited six till after the six months then they would be untouchable such as tenants rights are these days.

    Best way to deliver notice?.....by hand,post,registered post......??????


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    #11
    overkill602
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭overkill602


    by hand if possible is best alternatively registered post, important do not negotiate this is a legal and valid document.


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    #12
    GGTrek
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    The Polisher wrote: »
    Best way to deliver notice?.....by hand,post,registered post......??????


    I suggest to read these posts on a practical way to serve a notice that would be very difficult to challenge at the RTB:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//sho...14&postcount=4
    and relative case law at the High Court on how to serve notice:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...83&postcount=1


    And giving credit to poster 4ensic15, this is also very detailed case law on how to/not to serve termination notices:
    https://www.rtb.ie/documents/TR0317-002243/TR0317-002243-DR1216-31142%20Report.pdf


    The no-reason termination notice you will have to serve is the following one:
    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/general/Sample_Notice_of_Termination_-_terminating-in-first-six-months_(Nov_2017).docx


    You seem quite green on landlord issues and the law, my strong suggestion would be to contact a solicitor specializing in tenancy law to review all the paperwork and serve it in order to avoid great displeasures down the road.


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    #13
    overkill602
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭overkill602


    i have served 2 in the last year 1 by hand and another by post both successfully executed


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    #14
    utmbuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭utmbuilder


    I wouldnt serve them personally, your going to end up not getting rent for a year, and not being in a position to get a court eviction order, until you go through the rtb.

    If you can go a year without rent, chance your arm that they follow the rule of law, but if its going to bust you be cautious.

    Treshold will tell them this you can be assure of that.


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    #15
    The Polisher
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭The Polisher


    GGTrek wrote: »
    I suggest to read these posts on a practical way to serve a notice that would be very difficult to challenge at the RTB:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//sho...14&postcount=4
    and relative case law at the High Court on how to serve notice:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...83&postcount=1


    And giving credit to poster 4ensic15, this is also very detailed case law on how to/not to serve termination notices:
    https://www.rtb.ie/documents/TR0317-002243/TR0317-002243-DR1216-31142%20Report.pdf


    The no-reason termination notice you will have to serve is the following one:
    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/general/Sample_Notice_of_Termination_-_terminating-in-first-six-months_(Nov_2017).docx


    You seem quite green on landlord issues and the law, my strong suggestion would be to contact a solicitor specializing in tenancy law to review all the paperwork and serve it in order to avoid great displeasures down the road.

    Excellent advice....thank you


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    #16
    The Polisher
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭The Polisher


    The Polisher wrote: »
    Excellent advice....thank you

    Should I contact rtb re notice or do I wait?????


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    #17
    utmbuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭utmbuilder


    The Polisher wrote: »
    Should I contact rtb re notice or do I wait?????


    RTB takes months and months, you pray they leave on their own, if they dont then you go to the RTB for "overholding", while hoping they keep paying you rent.

    You issue a termination notice. If they don't leave after 28 days, you apply to the RTB for a adjudication, (takes 2 months to get) , then the result in your favor will take a month by post.

    If they still dont leave they will appeal it, then you go back to the RTB in another 3 months for a tribunal , a month later you get a determination order telling them to leave.

    If they still dont leave you have to beg the RTB to pay your court feeds to have the determination order enforced by a judge, another 4 months. Finally when a judge says the order is law binding they get 28 days to leave, if they don't , you have to employee sheriff's around 2000 euro and a wait of 6 weeks.

    Normally when people leave your house after such a long legal process its in bits. So make sure you have money for repairs to relist the property next year.

    If all the above plays out, and they decide not to pay rent from tomorrow, its next to impossible to chase them for damages, and extremely costly, unless they have assett's you know about like property, that a judge can put a lean on. Basically I dont know of any judgements where the landlord got paid back, a any rate other than a small 40 year repayment schedule after hiring a PI to chase down the tennents, judge scheduled 5 euro a week repayment to the landlord.


    you must of really liked the paint job beforehand.


    --

    if you loose the plot, shout at them, drag them out, do anything like that and they get it on their phones, in the current climate you will be fined thousands if you dont pay they can put lean on assets,




    -

    all the above is true, and thats why landlords are leaving the markets, extremely risky investment

    but you could be lucky and they just pack their bags and leave in 28 days!


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    #18
    The Polisher
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭The Polisher


    utmbuilder wrote: »
    RTB takes months and months, you pray they leave on their own, if they dont then you go to the RTB for "overholding", while hoping they keep paying you rent.

    You issue a termination notice. If they don't leave after 28 days, you apply to the RTB for a adjudication, (takes 2 months to get) , then the result in your favor will take a month by post.

    If they still dont leave they will appeal it, then you go back to the RTB in another 3 months for a tribunal , a month later you get a determination order telling them to leave.

    If they still dont leave you have to beg the RTB to pay your court feeds to have the determination order enforced by a judge, another 4 months. Finally when a judge says the order is law binding they get 28 days to leave, if they don't , you have to employee sheriff's around 2000 euro and a wait of 6 weeks.

    Normally when people leave your house after such a long legal process its in bits. So make sure you have money for repairs to relist the property next year.

    If all the above plays out, and they decide not to pay rent from tomorrow, its next to impossible to chase them for damages, and extremely costly, unless they have assett's you know about like property, that a judge can put a lean on. Basically I dont know of any judgements where the landlord got paid back, a any rate other than a small 40 year repayment schedule after hiring a PI to chase down the tennents, judge scheduled 5 euro a week repayment to the landlord.


    you must of really liked the paint job beforehand.


    --

    if you loose the plot, shout at them, drag them out, do anything like that and they get it on their phones, in the current climate you will be fined thousands if you dont pay they can put lean on assets,




    -

    all the above is true, and thats why landlords are leaving the markets, extremely risky investment

    but you could be lucky and they just pack their bags and leave in 28 days!

    Ok....thanks for reply....certainly doesn't encourage anyone to stay in the rental market!!


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    #19
    utmbuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭utmbuilder


    [HTML][/HTML]
    The Polisher wrote: »
    Ok....thanks for reply....certainly doesn't encourage anyone to stay in the rental market!!

    Between the 50% taxation side of it, and then the rent caps. Its a bad modern day investment. Unless your tax exile then irish property is a great investment.

    I know people begging Revenue to get straight with them for not paying tax on rentals when they get found out, Revenue just go straight to leaning the propertys after investigating and biastly estimating how long a property was rented for from day one, screwing up the peoples entire life's savings and credit.


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    #20
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,843 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Having a pet, their available options will be severely limited.
    Expect them to stay in your property!


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    #21
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Having a pet, their available options will be severely limited.
    Expect them to stay in your property!

    Tbh, they will more than likely do the same thing and not mention the pet and wing it until they get into the property in the hope that it wont be mentioned. Its actually one reason why i prefer apartments in Ireland for rentals. Your much less likely to have tenants looking for apartments that might sneak in a pet.


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    #22
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The Polisher wrote: »
    Should I contact rtb re notice or do I wait?????

    You have to serve or cause the notice to be served yourself before approaching the RTB. One of the cases linked above shows a landlord serving the notice 3 times by 3 different means. The two key things are to get the wording absolutely correct, get the notice period correct and be able to prove service.


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    #23
    The Polisher
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭The Polisher


    A big thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions. Thankfully tenants have left.
    Seriously considering whether to continue renting ........


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    #24
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    The Polisher wrote: »
    A big thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions. Thankfully tenants have left.
    Seriously considering whether to continue renting ........


    Wow you were steeped, glad they left. Think you need to do up a pro/con list of renting v selling etc. Are you in RPZ? Is there a mortgage on the property? Could you sell? My honest opinion would be to sell, its a huge gamble at the minute the way things are going with Government interference.


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    #25
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    That's a relief.

    Have they just recently gone? Much hassle?


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    #26
    The Polisher
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭The Polisher


    pc7 wrote: »
    Wow you were steeped, glad they left. Think you need to do up a pro/con list of renting v selling etc. Are you in RPZ? Is there a mortgage on the property? Could you sell? My honest opinion would be to sell, its a huge gamble at the minute the way things are going with Government interference.

    I'd be inclined to sell also...the continuous enforced legislation coming from the govt and the RTB offers no protection for single property landlords .


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    #27
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    If you don't need the money long term, and can manage the mortgage if you have one, without rent for a couple of years, then its not a bad investment.

    If you are tight on money, or might need the money back quickly, I'd think twice.


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    #28
    The Polisher
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭The Polisher


    theteal wrote: »
    That's a relief.

    Have they just recently gone? Much hassle?

    There's always a certain amount of hassle in these situations I imagine, but glad obviously to have property back and need to make decision re renting or selling...


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