Cork Northern Distributor Road

Pete_Cavan · 22-11-2020 8:48pm

The Distributor Road is intended for local traffic movements and public transport, put it too far out and it no longer fulfills that intended purpose. HGVs will use the M8/NRR, particularly if the Distributor Road is that far out. It would just be a poor version of NRR.

22-11-2020 9:22pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The Distributor Road is intended for local traffic movements and public transport, put it too far out and it no longer fulfills that intended purpose. HGVs will use the M8/NRR, particularly if the Distributor Road is that far out. It would just be a poor version of NRR.

300 metres down the way will not put it too far out. I will remove a huge load going right through a residential area

Pete_Cavan · 22-11-2020 10:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

300 metres down the way will not put it too far out. I will remove a huge load going right through a residential area

300m would have it ploughing straight through estates and many houses which is not realistic. It would have to be much further east. Any HGV traffic coming from anywhere east of there, wanting to go to the north of the city, would almost certainly have passed Dunkettle, it should go via M8 and NRR (much of it will probably have come down the M8 already). You seem to want to have an inner NRR.

Most of the traffic in those residential areas likely originates from those residents themselves! Part of the goal of the distributor road is to also provide public transport, there is no point in doing that away from where people live.

23-11-2020 10:11am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

300m would have it ploughing straight through estates and many houses which is not realistic. It would have to be much further east. Any HGV traffic coming from anywhere east of there, wanting to go to the north of the city, would almost certainly have passed Dunkettle, it should go via M8 and NRR (much of it will probably have come down the M8 already). You seem to want to have an inner NRR.

Most of the traffic in those residential areas likely originates from those residents themselves! Part of the goal of the distributor road is to also provide public transport, there is no point in doing that away from where people live.

Where is the NRR in its process? We could be talking about that for the next 2 decades

hans aus dtschl · 23-11-2020 10:14am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The Distributor Road is intended for local traffic movements and public transport, put it too far out and it no longer fulfills that intended purpose. HGVs will use the M8/NRR, particularly if the Distributor Road is that far out. It would just be a poor version of NRR.

The biggest problem is probably that Lotabeg/Tinkers Cross is pretty constrained.
A reduced speed "shared street" is about all that could be achieved there.

What you really want on this route is: footpath, cycle lane, bus lane, road lane, on each side. You could certainly collect footpaths and cycle lanes to one side, but you're looking at 4 lanes (bus, private traffic) plus about 5m or 6m of active travel space. There's a few spots between Tivoli and Banduff Road where that will be a challenge.

hans aus dtschl · 23-11-2020 10:16am

Deleted User wrote: »

Where is the NRR in its process? We could be talking about that for the next 2 decades

TBF, we in our dream world here on boards, are expecting NRR and NDR simultaneously.
We're also expecting the port to go to Ringaskiddy, that's another thing that's not yet in place that affects traffic in the area. For instance, when the port moves, the traffic flows at Silversprings will all be a bit different. Is the Ringaskiddy HGV traffic going to start hauling up the M8, or via Tivoli?

23-11-2020 12:27pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

TBF, we in our dream world here on boards, are expecting NRR and NDR simultaneously.
We're also expecting the port to go to Ringaskiddy, that's another thing that's not yet in place that affects traffic in the area. For instance, when the port moves, the traffic flows at Silversprings will all be a bit different. Is the Ringaskiddy HGV traffic going to start hauling up the M8, or via Tivoli?

Until the NRR any traffic going there currently will continue to go up Silversprings, I imagine

hans aus dtschl · 23-11-2020 10:55pm

It would be possible to bring the NDR up through New Inn, by going behind the Glanmire grotto.
I don't know the maths on it though in terms of gradient versus available space, it could be too steep.

It would also be possible to go between Lotamore House and Cheshire Home.

I'm not sure either of these are any better than Tivoli.

I can't see any other options.

KrisW1001 · 24-11-2020 11:27am

By definition, a distributor is a local road, not a bypass: it connects neighbourhoods together and links them to the longer distance road network. Trying to find a route that avoids places where people live is defeating the purpose of this route.

The NDR is a single carriageway road, and while it is a wide road, about two-thirds of its total cross-section is devoted to pedestrians, public transport and cyclists. I don't think this is going to be a contentious project. (But then, I didn't think the M28 would have been so strongly opposed either - just shows what a small minority with money can do against the common good)

Cork Trucker · 10-12-2020 6:49pm

Fatal accident in Tinkers Cross this evening. A few people giving out about the amount of trucks going through the area on Facebook

https://twitter.com/corksafetyalert/status/1337078870948913153?s=21

marno21 · 10-12-2020 8:05pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Fatal accident in Tinkers Cross this evening. A few people giving out about the amount of trucks going through the area on Facebook

https://twitter.com/corksafetyalert/status/1337078870948913153?s=21

Unfortunately it remains the signposted route for HGVs between the N20 and the M8/N22/N25/N27/N28/N71 (as you know yourself) and will remain that way for some time. And the Northern Distributor Road won’t be suitable as a HGV bypass either. The only long term solution in this instance is the M40 North Ring

hans aus dtschl · 11-12-2020 12:03pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Fatal accident in Tinkers Cross this evening. A few people giving out about the amount of trucks going through the area on Facebook

https://twitter.com/corksafetyalert/status/1337078870948913153?s=21

Collision there on Tuesday morning too.

marno21 · 10-03-2021 3:57pm

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169216/0/1?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Route selection contract awarded to RPS. €349k.

annfield1978 · 11-03-2021 12:39am

marno21 wrote: »

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169216/0/1?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Route selection contract awarded to RPS. €349k.

Very cheap!

marno21 · 11-03-2021 1:08am

annfield1978 wrote: »

Very cheap!

Won't be long on the clock at that value. We should see it soon

NTA's PMGs must be less onerous than TIIs

hans aus dtschl · 11-03-2021 10:23am

marno21 wrote: »

Won't be long on the clock at that value. We should see it soon

NTA's PMGs must be less onerous than TIIs

I missed that it was actually awarded. I thought it was just the tender!

Pete_Cavan · 11-03-2021 10:27am

Probably not a huge amount of route selection to be done here, the options are limited. A bit of analysis of other routes to show they considered everything but they probably expect to be getting down to brass tacks fairly quickly.

AugustusMinimus · 11-03-2021 3:10pm

It looks like we’ll be getting a new bridge over the Lee about half way out the straight road? Has that been confirmed. In addition, will the new road likely have a junction with the Lee Road.

Chris_5339762 · 11-03-2021 3:52pm

Most of this Northern Distributor Road is aspirational anyway. Both this and the Southern equivalent will end up bogged down in the courts.

Theres no way Cork residents will accept a road bisecting the Lee Fields.

hans aus dtschl · 11-03-2021 4:35pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Most of this Northern Distributor Road is aspirational anyway. Both this and the Southern equivalent will end up bogged down in the courts.

Theres no way Cork residents will accept a road bisecting the Lee Fields.

You could be right.
How should a distributor and a bypass coexist? Do you keep them away from each other or bring them together? Are there any good international examples?

AugustusMinimus · 11-03-2021 4:48pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Most of this Northern Distributor Road is aspirational anyway. Both this and the Southern equivalent will end up bogged down in the courts.

Theres no way Cork residents will accept a road bisecting the Lee Fields.

It’ll be past the Park going through farmland if the guide map is anything to go by.

Chris_5339762 · 11-03-2021 4:53pm

I worry too that we'll have the same issue as they did in Limerick recently with that section of road through Moyross.

It'll get built piecemeal and various political interests will attempt to stymie bits of it. It has to be done in one section, or else it'll take an inordinate amount of time.

North Ring Road IMO is more important than this, but all should be progressed. I am aware the roads in this area are dreadful or nonexistant though.

AugustusMinimus · 11-03-2021 5:12pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I worry too that we'll have the same issue as they did in Limerick recently with that section of road through Moyross.

It'll get built piecemeal and various political interests will attempt to stymie bits of it. It has to be done in one section, or else it'll take an inordinate amount of time.

North Ring Road IMO is more important than this, but all should be progressed. I am aware the roads in this area are dreadful or nonexistant though.

Bishopstown to basically anywhere north of the Lee is beyond a disgrace.

marno21 · 12-03-2021 1:25am

The indicative routing of this in the CMATS has it terminating on the Carrigrohane Road beside the Lee Fields car park. Whilst useful, this routing would result in riots. It would be far more likely to escape issues to terminate it at the Wilton United field across the Lee onto the N22 at Grassland. Sharp turn right across the river and up the hill to the Blarney Road at the edge of the city, beside the Clogheen Business Park and at the junction for Blarney (this is effectively the current North Ring Road). Out the back of Apple and onto Killeens to the M20.

This road is an interesting one. Currently, getting from the N40 to the N20 via the western quadrant, or from Wilton/Bishopstown (which I do regularly, and AugustusMinimus referred to) to the N20 requries:

1. A trip via the city centre and Blackpool with 20+ sets of traffic lights
2. The routing via Shanakiel and ****** Hill (that's what my Kia car sat nav calls it anyway). Get stuck behind a truck from the Lee Road up Shanakiel and you won't be leaving first gear. The entire route is also 60km/h max and on narrow rural roads or narrow hilly twisty city streets.
3. Via Blarney/Kerry Pike/Tower/Carrigrohane (lengthy and crap roads).

The junction with the N22 for this scheme will be very busy. It'll also likely increase traffic at Dennehy's Cross and Victoria Cross.

The NRR is badly needed here too.

KrisW1001 · 12-03-2021 11:17am

marno21 wrote: »

F****t Hill (that's what my Kia car sat nav calls it anyway).

That is its name. Before the city stretched out that far, there used to be woodlands there, where people would collect sticks for firewood. The name comes from the word for a bundle of dry sticks used as firewood.

But yes, there are currently three lousy routes from Northwest Cork to the South and Southwest - this will replace those with one good one.

I don't see many complaints about this road from people who actually live in the North-western part of the city - it will make things much easier for them. Even landing a bridge near the Lee Fields car park could be possible if it's sympathetically designed: this isn't a motorway, it's regular a two-lane road with added bus-lanes and cycleways, and will be under a 50 or 60 km/h limit.

12-03-2021 11:31am

I imagine no one will miss Kerry Pike. Lots of wing mirrors lost over the years there, I'd say

12-03-2021 11:38am

Just copped that it runs right next to the office, in Northpoint.
Can avoid Dublin Hill and Blackpool, small benefit (to me) but imagine it'll be great for residents there

polaris68 · 14-10-2022 4:58pm

Progressed to first stage of planning.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40983443.html

marno21 · 18-10-2022 12:19pm

Was meant to reach that stage of planning by Q4 2021, now we are looking at Q2/3 2023. Not sure what the hold up is there the Covid card isn't really playable anymore and I don't think Vladimir Putin has had any reason to hold this up.

It'll be interesting to see how the reaction to this is. This is an absolute critical enabler for public transport and active travel on the northside, and also required to take substantial levels of traffic out of residential areas and perhaps reallocation of roadspace. There is currently no suitable route for traffic from the N22 to the N20 that's remotely up to standard. Sadly, our nearest city had their Northern Distributor Road shitcanned recently so I worry about the fate of this going forward. Regardless of what shite they come out with, there is no way to advance active travel/PT policy on the northside of Cork City, especially the northwestern side, without this project.

KrisW1001 · 18-10-2022 2:29pm

Limerick's NDR was reinstated, or rather the bit that improved PT and active travel was. The bit that was canned was primarily about creating distant car-dependent suburbs.

Cork Northern Distributor Road

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