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Whistleblower: Maurice McCabe

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Comments

  • #692
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    blanch152 wrote: »
    A couple of facts.

    Two other whistleblowers - Harrison and Taylor - have been completely discredited by the Tribunals.

    In McCabe's case, while most of what he claimed was upheld, some was found to be exaggerated by the Tribunal.

    So two and a bit out of three were wrong. Whistleblowing has some way to go before it is proven.

    This is a depressingly sad and pathetic response to the whole Maurice McCabe saga. AGS tried their best to viciously destroy M McCabe when he was trying to prove the truth of what goes on behind the scenes. It's not whistleblowing that has been discredited but rather the Gardaí's, from top to bottom, allergic reaction to it. When AGS responses to whistleblowing is to crush the whistleblower I think you might look to that when considering whether "Whistleblowing has some way to go before it is proven". What is a fact and what has been proven is they surely don't like info getting into the public eye that is unflattering to themselves and will go to extreme lengths to curtail that happening.


  • #693
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    blanch152 wrote:
    In McCabe's case, while most of what he claimed was upheld, some was found to be exaggerated by the Tribunal.


    What was exaggerated and from what tribunal is this being drawn from?


  • #694
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    blanch152 wrote: »
    A couple of facts.

    Two other whistleblowers - Harrison and Taylor - have been completely discredited by the Tribunals.

    In McCabe's case, while most of what he claimed was upheld, some was found to be exaggerated by the Tribunal.

    So two and a bit out of three were wrong. Whistleblowing has some way to go before it is proven.

    Upheld?? Jesus Blanch, you're better than that. I think. It was described as a campaign of calumny. They tried to destroy him at every opportunity.

    What is your honest opinion about McCabe? Do you consider him a national hero?


  • #695
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,527 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    NIMAN wrote: »
    It might initially, but once it all blew over, we would hopefully have a more honest and better run state.

    People with nothing to hide would have nothing to fear, and we'd catch the chancers, cheats, criminals etc and get them off the payroll.

    Its a Win/Win from what I can see.

    It would be nice if it did happen. For me alot of the institutions of the state do need to be brought down and rebuilt. It should have happened during the banking collapse but due to the incestuous relationship between the state and the institutions it never happened.

    Not Until there is separation and not until we grow up as country that change will happen.

    It is disgusting and disappointing to see posters on here refer to McCabe as a snitch or a rat, would they say the same about Vicky Phelan who exposed what was going on with smear tests? Some folks need to take a good hard look at themselves.


  • #696
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,748 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    The man should have a statue erected outside Garda HQ to remind everyone what he did for the country.


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  • #697
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,748 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    What was exaggerated and from what tribunal is this being drawn from?

    The findings in the Disclosures tribunal mentioned he was prone to exaggeration, not for anything specific. Its a minor note that people will use against him whilst ignoring the rest of the findings.


  • #698
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Deebles McBeebles wrote:
    The findings in the Disclosures tribunal mentioned he was prone to exaggeration, not for anything specific. Its a minor note that people will use against him whilst ignoring the rest of the findings.


    Thanks for the reply, glaring tactic from some quarters.overall McCabe was right and honourable.


  • #699
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    The findings in the Disclosures tribunal mentioned he was prone to exaggeration, not for anything specific. Its a minor note that people will use against him whilst ignoring the rest of the findings.

    Yes. Desperately clutching at straws. It's all they've got.


  • #700
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    The man should have a statue erected outside Garda HQ to remind everyone what he did for the country.

    And, what was that exactly?
    I mean people seem to jump on the hero bandwagon a bit too eagerly.
    Yes the man had a hard time, his superiors treated him badly.
    But what did he do to make him a hero?

    He told the world that superintendents were cancelling tickets for friends & acquaintances, but why would the whole country think that made him a hero? Since when did the majority of public think tickets were so important? The amount of posts I see in here where people complain about gardai doing check points or seizing vehicles etc.....

    Yes, it was right to show wrong doing, there should have been a better reaction by garda management. But, a hero? Seems a bit much.


  • #701
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bubblypop wrote: »
    And, what was that exactly?
    I mean people seem to jump on the hero bandwagon a bit too eagerly.
    Yes the man had a hard time, his superiors treated him badly.
    But what did he do to make him a hero?

    He told the world that superintendents were cancelling tickets for friends & acquaintances, but why would the whole country think that made him a hero? Since when did the majority of public think tickets were so important? The amount of posts I see in here where people complain about gardai doing check points or seizing vehicles etc.....

    Yes, it was right to show wrong doing, there should have been a better reaction by garda management. But, a hero? Seems a bit much.




    a better reaction? come on. They did their best to destroy the man because he had the cheek to expose what senior members were doing.


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  • #702
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    bubblypop wrote:
    And, what was that exactly? I mean people seem to jump on the hero bandwagon a bit too eagerly. Yes the man had a hard time, his superiors treated him badly. But what did he do to make him a hero?


    So what is your honest opinion of McCabe and do you disagree with Justice Charleston description of McCabe?
    I'm don't think his actions make him a hero, I do however think he is a man of integrity , decency and honour. Who put the ideals of his oath above loyalty to a disfunctional and somewhat odious organisation. I would be interested in your opinion. I will tell you connection to the AGS, my son is a member coming up to the end of his probation. My sister in law is a member of 20 years standing. I have 3 other extended family members serving in the force. Have you a connection?


  • #703
    upthepoll
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭upthepoll


    mattser wrote: »
    Plus boats, exhaust pipes, dogs, crows, cats, more crows, etc etc.

    Can they not concentrate on the subject matter.

    Absolute amateur TV.

    there was a heck of a lot of crows alright and lingering shots of fields and upstreet bailieborough, pity they didnt put katie hannon on screen, shes hot..
    anyhow, a very sad story, there were no winners here really, fair dues to him and all but if it was me i would have just left it alone and not put my family through all that, all for what? will anything change? no, has anything changed? no, are those baililborough gardai still on duty? yes....


  • #704
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    a better reaction? come on. They did their best to destroy the man because he had the cheek to expose what senior members were doing.

    I will agree, but I just find the hero worship thing a bit overboard.
    If his issues had of been dealt with correctly in the first place, if there were mechanisms in place in AGS , so he could bring these things to someone outside of his chain of command, it wouldn't make him a hero.
    It would make him correct & right but not a hero!

    Or so people just believe he is a hero because of the treatment from management? I'm honestly interested.


  • #705
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I will agree, but I just find the hero worship thing a bit overboard.
    If his issues had of been dealt with correctly in the first place, if there were mechanisms in place in AGS , so he could bring these things to someone outside of his chain of command, it wouldn't make him a hero.
    It would make him correct & right but not a hero!

    Or so people just believe he is a hero because of the treatment from management? I'm honestly interested.


    the fact that he kept going despite the way he was treated. It was only his own foresight to record certain conversations that prevented him from being completely destroyed. Despite the way he was treated none of the people who acted against him suffered one bit. They were allowed to retire with their pensions. No sanctions at all. Hopefully the state will refuse to cover callinans legal fees and he is sued into bankruptcy.


  • #706
    upthepoll
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭upthepoll


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I will agree, but I just find the hero worship thing a bit overboard.
    If his issues had of been dealt with correctly in the first place, if there were mechanisms in place in AGS , so he could bring these things to someone outside of his chain of command, it wouldn't make him a hero.
    It would make him correct & right but not a hero!

    Or so people just believe he is a hero because of the treatment from management? I'm honestly interested.

    i think people probably see him as a hero not necessarily for what he did but the fact that he never gave up and even got more involved when he went to mullingar, despite what it was doing to his family and his reputation not to mention how it may affect his kids in the future, his old man did the same when they were polluting the lake beside his hotel


  • #707
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,748 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    bubblypop wrote: »
    And, what was that exactly?

    Exposed corruption in an organisation that should be beyond corruption.


  • #708
    upthepoll
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭upthepoll


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    Exposed corruption in an organisation that should be beyond corruption.

    problem is, as i see it, absolutely nothing has or will change and the mccabe family will never really recover from all of it
    i presume there will be a movie made of this?


  • #709
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    bubblypop wrote: »
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    a better reaction? come on. They did their best to destroy the man because he had the cheek to expose what senior members were doing.

    I will agree, but I just find the hero worship thing a bit overboard.
    If his issues had of been dealt with correctly in the first place, if there were mechanisms in place in AGS , so he could bring these things to someone outside of his chain of command, it wouldn't make him a hero.
    It would make him correct & right but not a hero!

    Or so people just believe he is a hero because of the treatment from management? I'm honestly interested.

    Cause he got many a scumbag fired and their reputation left in tatters and got the wheels set in motion for future whistle blowers.the message is clear now,no one is above the law from ordinary gardai to justice ministers. We have seen the way gardai behave if left unchecked and we have said enough is enough.we are watching.


  • #710
    Ceist_Beag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭Ceist_Beag


    Of course he is a hero.
    The reason imv that he is a hero is that he kept doing the right thing, not the easy thing. He had so many opportunities to walk away, turn the other cheek, pretend he didn't see something, etc.
    But he didn't, he kept at it and not only that, he was smart enough to keep evidence where needed in order to protect himself at a later point.
    How many people would have taken the easy option? How many would have said it's not worth fighting this.
    His moral compass was right all along, he had the strength of his convictions to keep going (not to mention his equally heroic wife) and despite every dirty trick thrown at him and the overwhelming inequality in the battle, he came out the winner in the end ... if that's not worthy of being a hero then I don't know what definition you have for it!


  • #711
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I will agree, but I just find the hero worship thing a bit overboard.
    If his issues had of been dealt with correctly in the first place, if there were mechanisms in place in AGS , so he could bring these things to someone outside of his chain of command, it wouldn't make him a hero.
    It would make him correct & right but not a hero!

    Or so people just believe he is a hero because of the treatment from management? I'm honestly interested.

    It was far more than just management though wasn't it.You are desperately trying to minimise it.

    He stood up to them all alone for a decade enduring the worst campaign of vicious slander, character assassination and intimidation I have ever heard of...and he won in the end and in so doing did the nation an outstanding service.
    And indeed probably saved lives on the roads by ensuring dangerous drivers couldn't continue posing a risk to the public and getting away with it like they were.

    So yes he is a hero in every sense of the word, the only people he is not a hero to is those he exposed..but hey that's to be expected and shows what a great job he done.


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  • #712
    upthepoll
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭upthepoll


    archer22 wrote: »
    It was far more than just management though wasn't it.You are desperately trying to minimise it.
    He stood up to them all alone for a decade enduring the worst campaign of vicious slander, character assassination and intimidation I have ever heard of...and he won in the end and in so doing did the nation an outstanding service.
    And indeed probably saved lives on the roads by ensuring dangerous drivers couldn't continue posing a risk to the public and getting away with it like they were.

    So yes he is a hero in every sense of the word, the only people he is not a hero to is those he exposed..but hey that's to be expected and shows what a great job he done.

    but what about the guards he exposed in bailieborough? to my knowledge nothing happened to any of them...callanan got to retire on a full pension as did the press officer, not mccabes fault but it was all for nothing sadly


  • #713
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    upthepoll wrote: »
    but what about the guards he exposed in bailieborough? to my knowledge nothing happened to any of them...callanan got to retire on a full pension as did the press officer, not mccabes fault but it was all for nothing sadly

    So he's not a hero as the bag guys didnt get ruined?

    He waded through a river of ****e and shone a light on all that the gardai were up to. They threw child abuse accusations and theft accusations at him. The boss called his actions disgusting.

    If others still do not step up and punish the perpetrators he can do no more.

    Hero


  • #714
    upthepoll
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭upthepoll


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    So he's not a hero as the bag guys didnt get ruined?

    He waded through a river of ****e and shone a light on all that the gardai were up to. They threw child abuse accusations and theft accusations at him. The boss called his actions disgusting.

    If others still do not step up and punish the perpetrators he can do no more.

    Hero

    no i'm not denying that at all, what i am saying is that he went through hell absolute hell and at the end of it all nothing has changed which is disappointing after all he went through


  • #715
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    upthepoll wrote: »
    but what about the guards he exposed in bailieborough? to my knowledge nothing happened to any of them...callanan got to retire on a full pension as did the press officer, not mccabes fault but it was all for nothing sadly

    Sadly that's to be expected..it's Ireland!.

    But at least the public are no longer naive about the institutions of the State and what they are capable of, and that see change alone leaves an outstanding legacy.


  • #716
    upthepoll
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭upthepoll


    archer22 wrote: »
    Sadly that's to be expected..it's Ireland!.

    But at least the public are no longer naive about the institutions of the State and what they are capable of, and that see change alone leaves an outstanding legacy.

    true, but with the priests you can just keep away from them and tell them to feck off, with the guards its different, they can cause a lot of harm and difficulty to people


  • #717
    MIN2511
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭MIN2511


    Maurice McCabe and his family have been robbed of so much and for too long. I'm sad to see him retire, and I don't know anyone who would have put up with this.
    The impact on his mental health, family life, his marriage, and even his children and their futures.

    Call him what you want, it takes determination to stick to what you believe and fight for what you know is right.


  • #718
    coolbeans
    Registered Users Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    bubblypop wrote: »
    And, what was that exactly?
    I mean people seem to jump on the hero bandwagon a bit too eagerly.
    Yes the man had a hard time, his superiors treated him badly.
    But what did he do to make him a hero?

    He told the world that superintendents were cancelling tickets for friends & acquaintances, but why would the whole country think that made him a hero? Since when did the majority of public think tickets were so important? The amount of posts I see in here where people complain about gardai doing check points or seizing vehicles etc.....

    Yes, it was right to show wrong doing, there should have been a better reaction by garda management. But, a hero? Seems a bit much.

    ...and this is what we're up against. No wonder standards in public life are so low.

    You fail completely to show any empathy for him and the fact that most would not have stood up at all thereby letting let the cancer fester. Of course he's a hero. Your attitude enables corruption.


  • #719
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,551 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    bubblypop wrote: »
    And, what was that exactly?
    I mean people seem to jump on the hero bandwagon a bit too eagerly.
    Yes the man had a hard time, his superiors treated him badly.
    But what did he do to make him a hero?

    He told the world that superintendents were cancelling tickets for friends & acquaintances, but why would the whole country think that made him a hero? Since when did the majority of public think tickets were so important? The amount of posts I see in here where people complain about gardai doing check points or seizing vehicles etc.....

    Yes, it was right to show wrong doing, there should have been a better reaction by garda management. But, a hero? Seems a bit much.

    He didn't just report abuse of Pulse.

    That wasnt what precipitated the vile pictures and comments on social media; the disgusting attempt to accuse him of child molesting (aside from Tusla, Callinan referring to him and saying he 'fiddles with kids'); the comments about his marriage.

    It began with reporting of guards turning up at the scene of a suicide drunk, interfering with it and having driven to and from there while under the influence.

    This was what began the disgusting behaviour from some rank and file and the people at the top. Yet he stood up to it because he had the courage of his convictions.

    Holding members of the AGS to the standard they should be held to is a pretty noble thing to do even if its not popular, given how well it was received.

    You don't think 'hero' is appropriate, which is fine. But don't misrepresent it as being nothing more than objecting to tickets being cancelled.


  • #720
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    blanch152 wrote: »
    A couple of facts.

    Two other whistleblowers - Harrison and Taylor - have been completely discredited by the Tribunals.

    In McCabe's case, while most of what he claimed was upheld, some was found to be exaggerated by the Tribunal.

    So two and a bit out of three were wrong. Whistleblowing has some way to go before it is proven.

    Or maybe it shows that the Garda tactic of discredting anyone who speaks out about the organisation works successfully in two and a bit times out of three. Let's face it they have form for that sort of thing.

    According to Judge Peter Smithwick,


    Judge Peter Smithwick has unleashed a blistering attack on the Garda - accusing it of prizing loyalty over honesty.

    The tribunal chairman said he was depressed and disheartened that a culture still exists in the force where its reputation takes priority over everything else.



    "Loyalty is prized above honesty," he said.
    Judge Smithwick said the Garda Commissioner's lawyers set out to cast doubt over Mr Curran's credibility "on the basis that the Garda Commissioner did not like what Mr Curran had to say."

    The tribunal chairman said the legal team were there to protect all ranks of the force, but they did not give any advice or protection to Mr Curran.



    "I would have thought he is as deserving of the support of the Garda Commissioner as any other former officer," he states.



    "However, it seems to me that because he was giving evidence of which An Garda Siochana did not approve, such support was not forthcoming."


    Sound familiar?


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  • #721
    lillycakes2
    Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭lillycakes2


    Such a powerful documentary. Cant believe how much he was bullied.It opens up your eyes to how horrible people can be ! I hope all those nasty people got punished for tormenting him and his family for so long, and how that garda commissioner gets to enjoy his pension after his rotten corrpuption is beyond me.

    This documentary would put off anyone blowing the whistle in their workplace which is very sad. Not many people would or could put themselves through that. He was right and very brave , but a lot of people wont want to go through that !


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