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The great big "Ask about Islam" thread

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123578

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    #122
    Not G.R
    Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Not G.R


    looksee wrote: »
    That is a very counter-productive attitude. He is not 'threatening legal action against anyone exercising free speech', he is objecting to something he finds offensive. If he feels he has a case, or even if he doesn't, he is entitled to get a legal opinion on something he feels strongly about (though it could be expensive if the court does not agree). Would you prefer if he just lost it and started shooting people to make a point?

    I'd prefer they keep their religious values and practices to themselves and other members of that religion. Not to dictate what the rest of society can and can't do based on their version of a holy book.


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    #123
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    A reminder folks that this is not a discussion thread, it's a forum for asking questions and getting answers. If you want to take the discussion further, start a thread.


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    #124
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Not G.R wrote: »
    Right. So then why try stop people publishing whatever cartoons they want. If you dont want to or are provented drawing certain cartoons, fine. Limiting others capacity to do so is a HUGE no no. If you're offended, so what.

    The guy threating leagal action against anyone exercising free speech is an out and out scumbag. He should be ridiculed by every section of Irish society.

    Please do not refer to anyone as a scumbag. If you cannot engage in civil debate without resorting to such pettiness, then please do not post on this forum.


    As a side note, you do know that the Catholic Church in France has taken legal action against the Charlie Hedbro magazine on 14 different occasions? This was one little nugget of information that emerged from the coverage of the tragedy in France yesterday.

    So religious figures threatening (or taking) legal action against those perceived as insulting them is not limited to Muslims.


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    #125
    Not G.R
    Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Not G.R


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    As a side note, you do know that the Catholic Church in France has taken legal action against the Charlie Hedbro magazine on 14 different occasions? This was one little nugget of information that emerged from the coverage of the tragedy in France yesterday.

    So religious figures threatening (or taking) legal action against those perceived as insulting them is not limited to Muslims.

    Smacks of "I know this guy is wrong but look at the CC. Look how bad they are!"
    As an aside I'm not Christian.

    Can you point me to where I've said otherwise?


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    #126
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Not G.R wrote: »
    Smacks of "I know this guy is wrong but look at the CC. Look how bad they are!"
    As an aside I'm not Christian.

    No, I was merely pointing out that other denominations have taken legal action. There was no assumption, nor implication that you were a member of the Catholic Church.
    Not G.R wrote: »
    Can you point me to where I've said otherwise?

    Can you point out where I suggested otherwise? I was merely stating fact. It was you who jumped to conclusions.


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    #127
    Not G.R
    Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Not G.R


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    No, I was merely pointing out that other denominations have taken legal action. There was no assumption, nor implication that you were a member of the Catholic Church.



    Can you point out where I suggested otherwise? I was merely stating fact. It was you who jumped to conclusions.

    Sure, here; "So religious figures threatening (or taking) legal action against those perceived as insulting them is not limited to Muslims."

    Implying I've said something along the lines of only Muslims retaliate against insults to their religion.

    And actually here as well; "No, I was merely pointing out that other denominations have taken legal action."

    Implying I said other denominations don't take or haven't took legal action.

    I was talking about this one Muslim man on Irish TV. You reminded me that it not just Muslims.


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    #128
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    How can it be that there is no thread here on the shooting and marches in France ?

    It is actually a bit unsettling .


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    #129
    Defender OF Faith
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Defender OF Faith


    marienbad wrote: »
    How can it be that there is no thread here on the shooting and marches in France ?

    It is actually a bit unsettling .

    There are already plenty around in other sub-forums, I myself have contributed to one; what makes you think that their should be another thread here, or in other words what do you find unsettling about not finding a thread here?

    If you feel that the absence of a thread here means we are not condemning the attack then you are wrong, more then 200000 Syrians have died in the Civil war, 33 people were killed in Yemen car bomb & dozen more in another suicide attack,2000 people have died in Nigeria, the majority were Muslims killed by Islamic extremists and corrupt regimes, not finding a thread here for these tragic incidents does not mean we do not mourn them.
    In Islam the killing of any innocent soul is unlawful those people killed else where in the world are just as precious as those 12 & we are not obliged to open a thread to show our condemnation or condolences~

    whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. [5:32]


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    #130
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Defender OF Faith wrote: »
    There are already plenty around in other sub-forums, I myself have contributed to one; what makes you think that their should be another thread here, or in other words what do you find unsettling about not finding a thread here?

    I find the silence deafening. Can you imagine on the Christianity forum if there was no discussion on the scandals in that church ?


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    #131
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,227 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    marienbad wrote: »
    I find the silence deafening. Can you imagine on the Christianity forum if there was no discussion on the scandals in that church ?
    I think you're reading too much into it, this forum is not as active as the Christianity forum nor are there many Muslims posting here.


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    #132
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Frank Grimes wrote: »
    I think you're reading too much into it, this forum is not as active as the Christianity forum nor are there many Muslims posting here.

    No I don't think I am , if a mosque was attacked would the reaction be the same ?


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    #133
    Defender OF Faith
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Defender OF Faith


    Frank Grimes wrote: »
    I think you're reading too much into it, this forum is not as active as the Christianity forum nor are there many Muslims posting here.

    There are only 2 Muslims that are frequently active out of the 3 I know here


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    #134
    from_atozinc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭from_atozinc


    why are Muslim's such pure and utter gob****es and sh1te on about Mohamed so much. can they not just relax and take a chill pill ?


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    #135
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,227 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    marienbad wrote: »
    No I don't think I am , if a mosque was attacked would the reaction be the same ?
    I have no idea but I still think you're reading far too much into it - why do you think there is no thread out of interest?


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    #136
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,227 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Defender OF Faith wrote: »
    There are only 2 Muslims that are frequently active out of the 3 I know here
    Yeah, it's always been around that sort of number on average in all the time I've been reading this forum.


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    #137
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Frank Grimes wrote: »
    I have no idea but I still think you're reading far too much into it - why do you think there is no thread out of interest?


    I don't know why there is no thread , fear of a ****storm maybe , but if you truly believe this is the very time you need to stand up and take the crap if necessary .


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    #138
    Defender OF Faith
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Defender OF Faith


    from_atozinc wrote: »
    why are Muslim's such {......}on about Mohamed so much. can they not just relax and take a chill pill ?

    http://www.catholicleague.org/muslims-right-angry/

    The killing have been condemned by even HAMAS which is listed as a terrorist organisation by many countries today, however as Bill have said the vulgar manner in which Muhammad (pbuh) was depicted will anger and offend any Muslim. http://avantblargh.tumblr.com/post/107422672105

    If you want to prove someone ideology is false you do not offend them as common sense dictate if you offend somebody he will just become defensive and you will get nowhere like this.

    Stifling of serious debate is unacceptable in Islam, critique of any ideas or belief is allowed but insult of any belief or people is not. Critique Islam all you want, write using intellectual tones about why it's not the truth or why the prophet is not a true prophet, books such as Scientific errors in the Qur'an by William campbell or "Is the Qur'an infallible" by abd al-fadi and many like them are found in many book stores across the west and have not resulted in any riots or demonstrations. But resulted in the creation of intellectual debates between each side to defend and support his argument such as the Zakir Nike & William Campbell debate discussing and refuting his book.


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    #139
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Defender OF Faith wrote: »
    http://www.catholicleague.org/muslims-right-angry/

    The killing have been condemned by eve HAMAS which is listed as a terrorist organisation by many countries today, however as Bill have said the vulgar manner in which Muhammad (pbuh) was depicted will anger and offend every Muslim without an exception.

    If you want to prove someone ideology is false you do not offend them as common sense dictate if you offend somebody he will just become defensive and you will get nowhere like this.

    Stifling of serious debate is unacceptable in Islam, critique of any ideas or belief is allowed but insult of any belief or people is not. Critique Islam all you want, write using intellectual tones about why it's not the truth or why the prophet is not a true prophet, books such as Scientific errors in the Qur'an by William campbell or "Is the Qur'an infallible" by abd al-fadi and many like them are found in many book stores across the west and have not resulted in any riots or demonstrations. But resulted in the creation of intellectual debates between each side to defend and support his argument such as the Zakir Nike & William Campbell debate discussing and refuting his book.

    killing people because you disagree with them is never an option.


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    #140
    Defender OF Faith
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Defender OF Faith


    marienbad wrote: »
    killing people because you disagree with them is never an option.

    Indeed it's not, never did I say it's. The following verses are taken from the Qur'an and I believe that every individual Muslim should adhere to them when insulted or mocked.

    41:34
     Good deeds and evil deeds can never be equal.
     Repel evil with good,
     then you will see
     that even one with whom you had enmity
    will become as though he were an intimate friend

    And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace,. 25:63


    "Am not Charlie Hebdo, nor am I a terrorist.
    On one hand, I have never insulted anyones religion, prophet, or holy book nor do I approve of others doing so. I do not believe free speech should be used as a cover to insult the most beloved human being to me that's ever lived or any prophet or holy figure. I do not approve of the vile racist cartoons drawn by Charlie Hedbo or any magazine (See: http://avantblargh.tumblr.com/post/107422672105). And if that means I'm not a "mod...erate Muslim" according to the bigot Bill Maher, then so be it.
    On the other hand, I believe in principle and value life. I do not sanction vigilantes murdering people indiscriminately. I believe in responding to these evil insults against my Prophet (peace be upon him) with education and mercy. I have seen Arnoud Van Doorn change his life and say "I am sorry oh Prophet of God" and that is far more beloved to me than if someone would've murdered him 2 years ago.
    I am not Charlie, nor am I a terrorist. I am a follower of the man who was sent as a mercy to the worlds." Omar Suleiman -Muslim scholar

    As I said there has been extensive condemnation from Muslims of this attack even HAMAS condemned the attack if Muslims feared "****storm" I don't think any would have voiced their words, the condemnation as of millions of Muslims in the real world is more important when compared to an internet platform.


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    #141
    from_atozinc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭from_atozinc


    why do yee quote and follow rubbish written thousands of years ago by some imaginary gobsh1te who is in no way in touch with what's going on in the world today


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    #142
    Whosthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Whosthis


    from_atozinc wrote: »
    why do yee quote and follow rubbish written thousands of years ago by some imaginary gobsh1te who is in no way in touch with what's going on in the world today

    If he was imaginary then how did he write it?


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    #143
    Defender OF Faith
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Defender OF Faith


    from_atozinc wrote: »
    why do yee quote and follow rubbish written thousands of years ago by[..] who is in no way in touch with what's going on in the world today
    If that's your opinion you are entitled to it & I welcome it, but if you want me to view it with any credibility you need to back it up with evidence ~

    Keep to forgiveness (O Muhammad), and enjoin kindness, and turn away from the ignorant.[7:199]


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    #144
    from_atozinc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭from_atozinc


    Whosthis wrote: »
    If he was imaginary then how did he write it?

    because it was not written by mohamed at all.


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    #145
    Whosthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Whosthis


    from_atozinc wrote: »
    because it was not written by mohamed at all.

    I never said it was, my question was how a piece of literature came to be written by an imaginary being, those were your words.


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    #146
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Defender OF Faith wrote: »
    Indeed it's not, never did I say it's. The following verses are taken from the Qur'an and I believe that every individual Muslim should adhere to them when insulted or mocked.

    41:34
     Good deeds and evil deeds can never be equal.
     Repel evil with good,
     then you will see
     that even one with whom you had enmity
    will become as though he were an intimate friend

    And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace,. 25:63





    "Am not Charlie Hebdo, nor am I a terrorist.
    On one hand, I have never insulted anyones religion, prophet, or holy book nor do I approve of others doing so. I do not believe free speech should be used as a cover to insult the most beloved human being to me that's ever lived or any prophet or holy figure. I do not approve of the vile racist cartoons drawn by Charlie Hedbo or any magazine (See: http://avantblargh.tumblr.com/post/107422672105). And if that means I'm not a "mod...erate Muslim" according to the bigot Bill Maher, then so be it.
    On the other hand, I believe in principle and value life. I do not sanction vigilantes murdering people indiscriminately. I believe in responding to these evil insults against my Prophet (peace be upon him) with education and mercy. I have seen Arnoud Van Doorn change his life and say "I am sorry oh Prophet of God" and that is far more beloved to me than if someone would've murdered him 2 years ago.
    I am not Charlie, nor am I a terrorist. I am a follower of the man who was sent as a mercy to the worlds." Omar Suleiman -Muslim scholar

    As I said there has been extensive condemnation from Muslims of this attack even HAMAS condemned the attack if Muslims feared "****storm" I don't think any would have voiced their words, the condemnation as of millions of Muslims in the real world is more important when compared to an internet platform.

    Do you agree with the right of Charlie Hebdo to publish those cartoons ?


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    #147
    from_atozinc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭from_atozinc


    Whosthis wrote: »
    I never said it was, my question was how a piece of literature came to be written by an imaginary being, those were your words.


    cause other spanners just wrote it and then picked a random name as the author.


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    #148
    Defender OF Faith
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Defender OF Faith


    marienbad wrote: »
    Do you agree with the right of Charlie Hebdo to publish those cartoons ?

    France is a secular Liberal state and liberal values include both the freedom of speech and freedom of insult/blasphemy, therefore within the laws of France Hebdo had the full rights to publish these cartoons.

    I also believe that the latter is not truly a benefit to society, insults offers nothing to society except hate & divisiveness, it's not require for the pursuit of truth,open inquiry or accounting governments.


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    #149
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Defender OF Faith wrote: »
    France is a secular Liberal state and liberal values include both the freedom of speech and freedom of insult/blasphemy, therefore within the laws of France Hebdo had the full rights to publish these cartoons.

    I also believe that the latter is not truly a benefit to society, insults offers nothing to society except hate & divisiveness, it's not require for the pursuit of truth,open inquiry or accounting governments.

    Who and how decides what is insulting ?


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    #150
    Defender OF Faith
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Defender OF Faith


    marienbad wrote: »
    Who and how decides what is insulting ?

    Don't you think the pictures in this link taken from Hebdo at all insulting? http://avantblargh.tumblr.com/post/107422672105


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    #151
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Defender OF Faith wrote: »
    Don't you think the pictures in this link taken from Hebdo at all insulting? http://avantblargh.tumblr.com/post/107422672105

    Some are some aren't , that is not what I asked though . I asked who decides and how


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