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07-05-2019, 10:23   #31
ILoveYourVibes
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Oy.

You need to read the excellent book about Yiddish, called 'The jOYS of Yiddish' by Leo Rosten. It's very gemutlich.
Ashamed to say i know very little Yiddish
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11-05-2019, 11:21   #32
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I was first introduced to it be some non jewish german friends who sing some of their songs
"Bei Mir Bistu Shein" better known by the Germanized title Bei Mir Bist Du Schön became a smash hit in Germany in 1938 and hugely popular in the German expat community in the US as it was assumed to be an uncontroversial song in a southern German dialect, uproar occurred when its Jewish provenance was abruptly discovered, widely publicized by the press and promptly banned by the Nazis.
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13-05-2019, 09:18   #33
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Yiddish is basically a dialect of German, with a bunch of loan-words from Hebrew and various Slavic languages, written using the Hebrew alphabet. Most speakers of German can make some headway in understanding spoken Yiddish, but unless they are familiar with the the Hebrew alphabet the written language is not comprehensible to them.

Hebrew was chosen as the official language for Israel for two reasons. First, as already pointed out, Yiddish was largely unknown to Sephardic Jews, but both Ashkenazi and Sephardic communities had some familiarity with Hebrew from religious study and liturgical uses. Secondly, secular Zionists were keen to claim Hebrew as a daily vernacular, rather than having an important aspect of Jewish history and culture be the preserve only of religious Jews.
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13-05-2019, 12:55   #34
tac foley
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Ashamed to say i know very little Yiddish
It is written in English. The capitalising of the letters OY in joys is deliberate. I guess you don't be's around us Jews much, eh? Oy.
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13-05-2019, 23:31   #35
 
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I guess you don't be's around us Jews much, eh? Oy.
No big surprise there Tac. Although the Jewish population in Ireland has increased by more than one third since 2000, the total number is now about 2,500, more than half living in the Dublin area. That gives a national ratio of about one to 2500 non-Jews. We goyim rarely get to meet a mench!
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14-05-2019, 08:57   #36
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Gevalt.
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19-05-2019, 08:32   #37
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It is written in English. The capitalising of the letters OY in joys is deliberate. I guess you don't be's around us Jews much, eh? Oy.

I am Jewish. My mom's grandparents spoke yiddish. I haven't a word though except maybe yiddish slang etc.

Yes I gathered (the book ) it was written in English.

Last edited by ILoveYourVibes; 19-05-2019 at 08:43.
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19-05-2019, 08:35   #38
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No big surprise there Tac. Although the Jewish population in Ireland has increased by more than one third since 2000, the total number is now about 2,500, more than half living in the Dublin area. That gives a national ratio of about one to 2500 non-Jews. We goyim rarely get to meet a mench!

The increase was a lot of immigration of Jews from elsewhere. Israel (mostly IT people or finance) and eastern Europe.
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19-05-2019, 13:07   #39
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The increase was a lot of immigration of Jews from elsewhere. Israel (mostly IT people or finance) and eastern Europe.
What's that? Jews LEAVING Israel to work in Ireland? What next?
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19-05-2019, 23:31   #40
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What's that? Jews LEAVING Israel to work in Ireland? What next?
I know. They all seem to work in IT or finance. Also some poles.

I am not sure if they will stay it seems to be projects they come over for about 2 yrs and then back to Israel some stay obv.
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19-05-2019, 23:43   #41
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It would be interesting to know if Yiddish developed any distictive features in Ireland, such as borrowing local words etc. I'm sure it would be over the top to talk about an Irish dialect, given its relatively short life and the small number of speakers. Nonetheless.......
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20-05-2019, 01:05   #42
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It would be interesting to know if Yiddish developed any distictive features in Ireland, such as borrowing local words etc. I'm sure it would be over the top to talk about an Irish dialect, given its relatively short life and the small number of speakers. Nonetheless.......

It would be litvish ....it does have a lot of borrowed words. But not just from English. Some particular to wherever the person was from or their background.

So no not exactly an Irish dialect. Most hassidic communities use litvish chabad etc. Rabbi Zalman lent is a chabad rabbi.

My grandad used to call an umbrella a zont. That is not yiddish as far as i know its russian.
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20-05-2019, 01:18   #43
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Actually this is interesting James Connolly gave out his campaign leaflet in 1902 in a yiddish translation it says here.

https://comeheretome.com/tag/james-connolly/


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05-12-2019, 13:53   #44
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Considering the levels of immigration there are few Irish but many Yiddish loan words in American English in daily use.
You might be wrong there. There is a fascinating book called How the Irish Invented Slang which attempts to attribute many slang terms in modern English, both British and American, to Gaelic Irish roots.

Among these are familiar ones like "brogue" from bróg meaning a shoe and "dig", meaning to appreciate or to empathise with something from tuig, meaning to understand, both of which are I believe uncontroversially attributed to Irish roots.

However he claimed as Irish in origin many other familiar terms such as "spick and span" from spiaca 's bán meaning brilliant and white. And "putting the kybosh" meaning to put a stop to something as coming from an cap báis meaning the death cap that a judge used to wear when handing down a death sentence.

I say you "might" be wrong because the author was not a qualified linguist; he was merely an Irish American who was fascinated by some of the slang terms his Gaelic speaking grandfather had used and through gathering terms in English dictionaries for which the origin was unknown, he matched them to potential Gaelic expressions from which they might have been derived.

As a consequence he was roundly denounced by many academics in the linguistic field because, as you probably know , specialists HATE it when amateurs encroach on their patch and offer their own suggestions and explanations.

I have looked through his book and attempted to find alternative explanations for some of the terms he has studied and sure enough, my old OED has offered "origin unknown" in most if not all cases.

Some of his claims are far-fetched but he has convinced me in the majority of cases.
As one amateur to another

Last edited by Snickers Man; 05-12-2019 at 14:25.
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07-12-2019, 11:13   #45
 
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Some of his claims are far-fetched but he has convinced me in the majority of cases.
As one amateur to another
I am less convinced.

I have not read that book but heard the author being interviewed at the time of its publication. While some word roots appear obvious, many of the claims were a little ‘stretched’ and alternative derivations were ignored. For example the kibosh/ceap báis notion has been around for quite a while and much debated. Its original use, in the early 19th century, neant ‘to castigate, overwhelm (a person or political party such as the British Whigs, who were criticized for failing to outlaw flogging in the military), perhaps originally meaning simply "to flog," from kirbaj, a whip (Arabic) [American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition.]

I think the late Terry Dolan of UCD was one of the people I heard negatively criticizing the book, mainly on the grounds of poor timeline research. For e.g. I recall the book claims that ‘snazzy’ was an Irish loan word, from snas, meaning polished/ornamented. However ‘snazzy’ was first recorded in the 1930’s, which is very late for an Irish language import; also US lexicographers assert it is a combination of ‘snappy’ and ‘jazzy’, which fits the period accurately.

It’s easy to make specious claims on word origin. Why not claim that the African-American idiom to ‘diss’ someone derives from the lenition of the Irish dímheas (disrespect)? In fact it is from Jamaican English slang, being a shortening of either (or both) ‘to disparage’ or ‘to disrespect’.

I suggest the reason why Irish immigrants had little linguistic input in colloquial American English is due to culture. Most of the Famine-Irish who arrived in the US were rural, unskilled labourers; many were monoglot Irish speakers, but they were fast to learn and assimilate. Many of the Mittel-European Jewish arrivals often had trades (e.g. tailoring, retailing, jewellery) and ‘group work’ held them closer together socially/linguistically. Also, their language, used in religious ceremonies, was a binding factor, whereas the Irish had Latin.

Yiddish, along with German, Dutch, Flemish and Scandinavian languages are from one branch – Germanic, whereas Gaelic is from a distinctly separate branch, Protoceltic, which separated from the main ‘European’ branch at an earlier stage. Would it not be easier for the sounds of a loan word to transfer within the Germanic languages than for one to migrate across the linguistic barrier, from Celtic to Germanic?
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