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Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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Comments

  • #122
    KildareP
    Registered Users Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Berserker wrote: »
    That's a short term view. If Brexit is a success the EU will fall apart. You need to look to the future not the present. The deals with the likes of the US are the important deals. The others will follow suit from there. The US trade deals is pretty much done, I suspect. The media stories regarding the NHS being on the table a while back were released for a reason.

    The US trade deal might well be written on paper but it has a long way to go from being just a paper agreement to formally being signed off and accepted. Same as how the Canada FTA was days away from being signed on the lead up to March 29th but not only was it not signed at any stage in the three months since then but it has been completely shredded by the Canadian side in the last 24 hours.

    Many of those people on the US side whose signatures and/or authorisation will be required along the way of getting it from that on-paper stage to actually trading with it have very clearly stated thay any FTA will simply not be passed through to the final stages by the USA if Britain does not stand over it's obligations surrounding the border.


  • #123
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭source


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Honestly, it is hard to find specific examples without having been sat at the negotiation table and I know better that to try reason with a Europhile like yourself. Look, all you have to do is look at the actions of the people in charge. They publicly state that they do not want Britian to leave (both the EU and British PM) and surprise surprise they have not left. Neither of them done what their constituents democratically told them to do. It is essential that this authoritarian regime crumbles. You know they want an army dont you?

    If you can't point to something because you weren't at the negotiation then how can you be so sure it exists?

    The UK have not left because they can't come to a united position. 27 countries came together, agreed a position and stuck with that position. 1 country cannot even come to an agreement internally as to how to leave the EU.

    The only one responsible for the UK not leaving the EU is the UK due to their indecision, lack of foresight and internal backstabbing.


  • #124
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    The EU are a disgrace, if it wasnt for them stalling, the Brits would be gone now and another nail would be in the EU's coffin. Roll on Oct 31's here's hoping for a hard Brexit, screw the border, the EU must crumble quicky at any cost.

    Absolutely. Hopefully Italy will be next to follow the UK out the door.


  • #125
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    Absolutely. Hopefully Italy will be next to follow the UK out the door.

    I know yeah, could you imagine the basket case Italy would be if it was not in the EU.


  • #126
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,266 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    Absolutely. Hopefully Italy will be next to follow the UK out the door.

    Well as it stands public opinion in Italy is strongly against such self destructive idiocy


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  • #127
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    A US trade deal simply cannot fill the hole left behind from leaving the EU. Surely you know this is a nonsensical argument.

    In the context of the EU as is today, it is. You are forgetting about the consequences that a successful Brexit will have on the EU and its member states.


  • #128
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Its not complicated at all. The people voted to leave so leave in March and deal with the fallout (if any) after.

    We voted no to Lisbon so the answer is no, end of. It is the EU who drags their feet on this stuff, there are plenty of examples

    Lisbon and Nice actually but the EU didn't like the answer so told our weak minded political class to go again.


  • #129
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    Absolutely. Hopefully Italy will be next to follow the UK out the door.

    You might have to wait a while. Excluding don't knows, 72% of Italians would vote Remain whereas 28% would vote Leave. In fact, in Italy, the Remain vote increased by 5% in the six months to April 2019.


  • #130
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    They are waiting for someone to push the real "Red Button" of a referendum, on the WA Vs Remain.

    And nobody will push it. A no deal exit is the only way out and neither side will push the button when the time comes. This extension charade will continue for a while yet.


  • #131
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Wrong, it's the end of the Tory/DUP stranglehold.

    The DUP are tiny bit players in this in reality. They happen to have an uncertain position of influence at the moment but their concerns would be steamrollered in a moment if opportunity allowed.


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  • #132
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,502 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I'm sure the majority of people in Britain who voted for Brexit ie the majority are thinking we voted for Brexit why are the immigrants still here scrounging off our system.

    That's because most of them are thick cúnts.

    The majority of inward migration are by Non Eu citizens, which the UK have full control over, a white paper prepared by the home office states this will have to drastically increase to meet job demands over the coming years.

    But trying to explain that to your average Brexit voter is akin to trying to fúck a door nob, utterly pointless.


  • #133
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Berserker wrote: »
    In the context of the EU as is today, it is. You are forgetting about the consequences that a successful Brexit will have on the EU and its member states.

    Can you tell me how Brexit is going to be successful?

    Just saying it's going to be a success doesn't make it true. If that was the case, I would spend my days telling everyone I have a 14 inch dong.


  • #134
    Dytalus
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Dytalus


    Berserker wrote: »
    In the context of the EU as is today, it is. You are forgetting about the consequences that a successful Brexit will have on the EU and its member states.

    But...wait....

    For the US (and any other long distance trading party) to successfully fill the gap left by EU trade, the EU will need to pretty much fall apart. You're saying this wil happen after a successful Brexit.

    But a successful Brexit requires these trade deals to be more valuable than EU membership. Which requires the EU to collapse. Which will happen because Brexit will be successful. Which can only happen if they get better trade deals. Which they can only get if....

    Where do we actually enter this loop of supposition?


  • #135
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    May was put in charge by the UK establishment because she was a remainer in the hope she'd stop Brexit. Unfortunately for the EU the UK isn't Ireland and their democracy means something and hand on heart i'd say if there ever is a second Brexit vote the leave vote will increase.


  • #136
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    This debate (not just here) is unnecessarily black and white.

    It is not necessary to believe that the EU is "good" to consider it better to be in, nor to believe that the EU is "bad" to consider it better to be out.

    However, we live in a broadly multi-lateral world. To get stuff done you need allies who share most of your cultural values and the ability to compromise with people who disagree or have different interests.

    The Brexiteers seem to believe either that the UK can act unilaterally in the world, which is complete fantasy, or that it has more in common with states outside the EU, which is simply a misjudgement.

    I'm split between the vengeful part of my brain that feels "they" deserve a hard Brexit so they can learn their place in the world the hard way, and sympathy for the Remainers who never wanted any of this.


  • #137
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,129 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    May was put in charge by the UK establishment because she was a remainer in the hope she'd stop Brexit. Unfortunately for the EU the UK isn't Ireland and their democracy means something and hand on heart i'd say if there ever is a second Brexit vote the leave vote will increase.

    Proof for any of this?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #138
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    May was put in charge by the UK establishment because she was a remainer in the hope she'd stop Brexit. Unfortunately for the EU the UK isn't Ireland and their democracy means something and hand on heart i'd say if there ever is a second Brexit vote the leave vote will increase.

    Opinion polling says you're wrong.


  • #139
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    source wrote: »
    If you can't point to something because you weren't at the negotiation then how can you be so sure it exists?

    The UK have not left because they can't come to a united position. 27 countries came together, agreed a position and stuck with that position. 1 country cannot even come to an agreement internally as to how to leave the EU.

    The only one responsible for the UK not leaving the EU is the UK due to their indecision, lack of foresight and internal backstabbing.

    Teresa May is the main person responsible but are you saying the EU just said sure go on lads close the door on your way out? I know Junker said something of the sort early on but his actions since contradict that.


  • #140
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,502 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Opinion polling says you're wrong.

    TBF, they wrong the first time too.


  • #141
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Opinion polling says you're wrong.

    Opinion polling said Brexit would not pass, it also said Hilldog would win.


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  • #142
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Putin is a legend and would wipe the floor with Teresa May. She should not be crying like a baby when she was put in charge of negotiating with the EU. It shows that they just walked all over her.


  • #143
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Opinion polling said Brexit would not pass, it also said Hilldog would win.

    What's a Hilldog?


  • #144
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Boggles wrote: »
    TBF, they wrong the first time too.

    Indeed. But they are usually a good straw in the wind.


  • #145
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭source


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Teresa May is the main person responsible but are you saying the EU just said sure go on lads close the door on your way out? I know Junker said something of the sort early on but his actions since contradict that.

    Did the 27 remaining countries come to a decision and stick to it?

    Has the UK's approach been full of infighting and back stabbing?

    Of course the EU is going to facilitate the UK staying in the union, its the preferred position and makes the most economic sense.
    The UK have come to the EU twice looking for extensions because they can't make a decision. The EU has not forced the extensions on the UK.

    But let's not let facts get in the way of your narrative.


  • #146
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Putin is a legend and would wipe the floor with Teresa May. She should not be crying like a baby when she was put in charge of negotiating with the EU. It shows that they just walked all over her.

    Is Putin up for EU President?


  • #147
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,107 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Putin is a legend and would wipe the floor with Teresa May. She should not be crying like a baby when she was put in charge of negotiating with the EU. It shows that they just walked all over her.

    Ah.
    This explains a great deal.


  • #148
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Opinion polling says you're wrong.

    I spend a lot of time on the road driving a coach in the UK over the last 25 years and from talking to people and friends i have over there in the last year or so positions have become more entrenched. The polls where wrong the first time so i wouldn't put any credence in them at all.

    Also this constant narrative that everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist or other vile abuse thrown at them hasn't helped the remainers in the slightest with their campaign to over throw the democratic will of the people.


  • #149
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    Also this constant narrative that everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist or other vile abuse thrown at them hasn't helped the remainers in the slightest with their campaign to over throw the democratic will of the people.

    They're not talking about overthrowing anything.
    They're talking about letting people vote again given the 3 years since the referendum, the realisation that promises beforehand were just lies, the shambles in the HoC since and the absence of a workable plan from anyone in the UK.

    Having a 2nd vote within the next year would be democracy in action.


  • #150
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,502 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    Also this constant narrative that everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist or other vile abuse thrown at them

    A lot of them were though, and a lot of them were just simpletons who would believe anything as long as it was written on the side of a bus.

    Not strictly all their fault, the red tops and the populist inbred rich politicians poked the hive as well. Of course none of them will suffer.

    But the proof is in the pudding, Brexit was going to be "easy", well no. They were sold a pup.


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  • #151
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,129 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    I spend a lot of time on the road driving a coach in the UK over the last 25 years and from talking to people and friends i have over there in the last year or so positions have become more entrenched. The polls where wrong the first time so i wouldn't put any credence in them at all.

    Anecdote =/= data.
    InTheShadows wrote: »
    Also this constant narrative that everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist or other vile abuse thrown at them hasn't helped the remainers in the slightest with their campaign to over throw the democratic will of the people.

    It might help if Brexiters actually made their own arguments instead of lying, taking foreign capital dishonestly and spouting meaningless soundbytes. The hypocrisy helps none either.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



This discussion has been closed.
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