BE Services to Go-Ahead and Resulting Fleet Changes

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

GM228 wrote: »

GAI are only getting 10 buses from BE, initially suggested to be LDs from my contact in the NTA, however he recently indicated this may change to 10 LFs transferring instead. No SCs are to transfer are all services by GAI are to be low floor wheelchair accessible hence either the LDs or LFs.

It's been a while since I saw the publication but the publication did say most definitely they would be getting 2012 SCs from us (this sticks because we like these buses and we were slightly giving out about giving them to Go-Ahead)

And they would be getting some LDs and LFs from us also

I most definitely saw this in an official document, just trying to recall where I saw this. I could've been online but I think for some reason it was in one of the documents issued by the company to staff, a bit like the one above.

Just an update on this, I'm told that it is indeed the LFs which are transferring (13 now instead of 10) to GA with the rest of their fleet being the new build. Surprisingly LF313 and 314 are in the process of transferring to GA despite BE having a fleet shortage and the Kildare routes not due to start until August at least.

KSL will be pleased to hear no SCs are transferring and their will be a few less VDLs on the books.

Irish Busman wrote: »

Have it on good stead the new low entry coach has a 320hp engine.
The B8RLE is a crossover chassis that can be set up for a city bus with normal city bus suspension and tyres, smaller power unit etc or can be produced with coach tyres and beefed up drivetrain to handle intercity coach work.
A lot of these things have been built in left hand drive, been on them on holidays in Italy and Spain along the coastlines.
As far as i know these will be low entry coaches with no standing, all seated and a permanent wheelchair space!!......diffinitely different and sounds like the Plaxton low entry thing Stagecoach have. Not an ounce of luggage space on them tho.

Indeed it will be a 320hp engine, I posted the specs in post 52.

Irish Busman wrote: »

Yep, see that now.
The new unit will be 13.5m on 2 axles and will be based on SB3, not SB5. Sunsun haven't produced a LE version of SB5 to date.
Livery expected to be TFI blue for both BE and GA.
AFAIK BE fleet engineers working with NTA on vehicle development project.

They havn't made any version of the SB5 to date because it has not existed LE or otherwise up to now.

There is a bit of uncertainty on both other points, some are suggesting 12.2m including two prominent sources, one of which is Route One who are considered the top when it comes to the industry information, they quoted Volvo Bus UKs Commercial Sales Director:-

Although the first batch of SB5s will be two-axle vehicles, the chassis layout is flexible and we could offer the product in tri-axle layout if a customer wished,” says Commercial Sales Director Phil Owen. “It’s possible to add coach elements to a bus body up to a point, but this is a coach built on a low-entry chassis.”

Even Buses Magazine has picked up on the SB5 comparing to the old Bedfords:-

Plaxton hopes to conclude at least two other orders for this model, its first double deck coach in nearly 30 years.

It also bid to supply the Panter LE on two-axle B8RLEs to Bus Éireann, as did Wrightbus with a modified Eclipse 3 body, but that order for 52 vehicles has gone instead to Sunsundegui with a body it calls the SB5, a designation many Buses readers might associate more readily with a rather basic Bedford of 50 years ago.

One thing is for certain, if it is 13.5m on two axles turning will be a bitch.

But another thing to consider is, this build required a new prototype body, why would a prototype be required for an already existing SB3? BE themselves said there was a prototype developed in association with their engineers and Volvo/Sunsndegui which was based on the SB3, so one assumes this and the two sources quoted above are correct and the SB5 is a new model based on the SB3.

One of the tri-axles was in ballymount this afternoon

First new Volvo low floor coaches for BE (VB class) and GAI side by side.



Turns out they are indeed SB3.

Just noticed this thread. So does anyone know for sure what buses they’ll be using for the 126 route once go-ahead takes over? Will they still all be gigantic coaches with unnecessarily large cargo holds with no wheelchair access and a stairs or will they be buses?

Tomrota, the hint is in the picture......these new buses are for both Go-Ahead and Bus Eireann, so you can expect some of these on the Kildare routes that Go-Ahead are taking over.
On the double deck coaches, some of the Bus Eireann LF's are soon to be transferred over to GoAhead for Kildare routes. They are being repainted into the same colour as the ones in the picture above. If you're passing by Daf on the N7 you can see some of them inside the gates in blue NTA paint scheme. Much prefer the BE livery.
So definitely a mixture of the two on GAI's Kildare services whenever they take over.
Not sure why you think they have no wheelchair access! All BE fleet they've bought since around 2007 are wheelchair accessible. On the LF, the wheelchair space is inside the centre door. They have to remove four seats and the plinth they are sitting on to uncover the wheelchair space so it's a prebooked service.
I think BE leave the seats and plinth out on some of them working routes where they have regular wheelchair passengers.

I understand these ones won't quite be as straightforward as DB or BE citybuses because of their speed and certification, so likely the wheelchair will have to be restrained in any event. Be interesting for the passengers waiting on the bus while the driver sorts all that out at the bus stop.....tick tock....:)

Lol ok thanks for sharing the pics. Laughing reading the posts on the link site, good lord yer a sensitive lot lol.
Have taken a good look at the pics and the comparisons with the Plaxton and here's my tuppence worth for what its worth.

Starting underneath, both are built on Volvo B8RLE, Sunsun on 2-axle at 13.5m, Plaxton on 3-axle at 14.6m
NTA were aiming for around 49 seats on these, Plaxton has 53 seats.
53 seats is the general capacity on a 12m coach but that's without a permanent wheelchair space. Both the Sunsun and Plax have a permanent wheelchair space, so the equivalent capacity would be 53 on the Sunsundegui and 57 on the Plaxton, if they had removeable seats in w/c space.
So the penalty for low entry is 1.5m for the same capacity or 2.5m for the same capacity and a permanent wheelchair space.
And the penalty for having the perm w/c space on the Sunsundegui is the loss of 4 seats bringing capacity down to 49.
Now knowing Bus Eireanns drivers penchant for hammering the rear ends of the 14m SE's, LE's, LF's etc, I would take the shortest option before giving them a 14.6m coach to batter.
If these buses are to be used on regional routes out west I would definitely avoid using a 14.6m coach, purely in terms of regional roads, negotiating tight towns/villages and maneuvering. Even at 13.5 the Sunsun will be challenged. Even moreso as a low entry vehicle on those kind of routes.

Moving up from the chassis, the Plaxton is based on a pure mid-range coach product, listed on their brochure at 3.44m high. What they've done is used the LE platform of B8R, retained the same window structure as the high floor coach and added a few windows underneath where the side linings and luggage bay doors would normally be.
On the other hand, the Sunsundegui is a pure inter-urban bus product , not an urban bus product and not a coach product. Because it is lower height 3.3m than the Plaxton, the structure allows for deeper windows towards the front, without the coach structure you can see on the Plaxton brochure. But it's still based on the same LE platform as the Plax.
On the interior, the Plaxton brochure shows three steps into the rear saloon, with the Sunsun having two. From an accessibility perspective for older passengers, in pubic transport terms, two steps is better/safer than three!
The Plaxton brochure shows the seats trimmed in red leather with what looks like a flatweave centre panel. Flatweave looks great but is incredibly difficult to keep clean from stains, spill, gum. Totally impractical for pubic transport service.
Personally, I prefer the look and hygiene of full real leather. While its costlier, it wipes clean and doesn't absorb the everyday woes of the wide spectrum of public transport users!
But NTA probably see the cost of leather as exorbitant and standard trim cloth as a more basic cheaper to re-trim option.
Looking at the seat trim, it looks like a standard trim cloth but there seems to be some elements of green and white mixed into it, probably to pick up on the green and white in the livery. I'd guess the navy colour is to hide the ingrained dirt that's more obvious on lighter trims. Again a facet of public transport more so than the style and panache of core coach products.
The seats themselves look okay, probably a mid range seat. Not a low end, cos there's too much cushioning in them from the pics but not a full blooded coach seat either. Again typical public transport distances don't need a full touring coach seat with reclines and armrests et al.
I've been on similar Sunsundeguis and others in southern Spain running similar distances with low back plastic bucket seats...which were remarkably comfortable given what they were.
I've seen worse seats than what I can see in the pics of the NTA buses.d
I'm also pretty sure there's an NMI wheelchair seatpad thing just behind the spare wheel in the pic and what looks like a partition behinit. That's the same system as Plaxton have used on their LE coach.
So there's a lot of commonalty in the execution but the main difference is the Plax is a coach trying to be a bus (they pretty much say that in their brochure) and the Sunsun is a bus trying to be a coach!
In reality, one shouldn't try to be the other lol.
On the luggage racks, there wouldn't be a hope in hell of reaching normal coach parcel racks from a floor standing position if they were fitted in that pic. I would guess the option then is no racks or low racks.
As they have the low racks, they've also included the horizontal yellow grab rails along the edge to hold onto when the bus is moving. the yellow handles on the seats are probably there for anyone who may not be able to reach the overhead poles, kids and elderly etc.
It's a bit difficult to see in the pic above, but it looks like they have built up a shelved rack over the nearside wheelarch and possibly more behind the two offside seats. Would guess they've gone for the low racks to try to provide as much space for storing bags on a bus that probably has zero external luggage compartments.
May not be pretty but definitely functional. As per earlier comment, the substance over style of public transport.
I think the comment on the other link about the silver handpoles was interesting. Personally I hate the garish yellow poles but again it's a public transport thing for people with vision difficulties, which I get.
However, the bugbear I have is the over use of yellow on every handle and pole on buses these days. It's lost its effect in terms of highlighting the ones you really need to see if you are trying to make your way through the bus with poor vision.
If you look at the picture above and imagine all the aluminium bars and poles on the luggage racks and overhead racks in bright yellow, you might get what I mean. it's only the horizontal poles on the overhead racks and the nearside luggage rack that are yellow, along with the vertical handpole on the offside wheelarch. I think they may have tried to tone down the unnecessary use of yellow on these which to me is a good thing. Saying that I wish they had also made the partition poles further back silver with only the step side poles yellow.
Also found the spare wheel comment funny on the other link. Most coaches come with a spare wheel, so that's only temporarily in there for shipping.
I hear what you're saying about the coach comparisons but it's not a coach, it's a bus....but its not a city bus either....they've aimed for a commuter bus and that seems to be what they've got.
I'm going to keep an open mind on these until I see them in the flesh and get the oppo to travel on them......safe in the knowledge not to expect a coach lol