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Bus Eireann N3/M3 Corridor Route & Timetable Changes - Phase 3

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭tom23


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Well what they need right now is for the new bus schedule to be delivered upon.

    If the schedules as designed were actually operated, this week would have seen a big improvement in services. Yet there has been chaos.

    I'm amazed that no one from BE management has been taken to task on this yet.

    In theory you could have rostering issues with railway staff too. This is an operational issue that needs sorting and fast.

    For pig iron sake I got the bus on Monday. Driver went up the Ken'stown road and then straight down the Navan road after blanch it didnt go near the M50 but thank god he didn't as it looked like something out of a disaster movie it was that jammed. What ever operational issues BE are having they need to get sorted quickly if they want people to buy in. Unlike horsebuger most folk using it don't have an unconditional love for it and will gravitate to other ways of getting to work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭tom23


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    I don't think anyone would consider this kind of performance by Bus Eireann or indeed any other operator be they bus or rail acceptable.

    I'm not sure who you mean by "bus/NTA people here"?

    Well I think who is referring to is obivious! 😜


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    tom23 wrote: »
    For pig iron sake I got the bus on Monday. Driver went up the Ken'stown road and then straight down the Navan road after blanch it didnt go near the M50 but thank god he didn't as it looked like something out of a disaster movie it was that jammed. What ever operational issues BE are having they need to get sorted quickly if they want people to buy in. Unlike horsebuger most folk using it don't have an unconditional love for it and will gravitate to other ways of getting to work.

    It's not just Navan & M3 services (109/109A/109X and NX) though.

    There have been serious problems on the 111, 115/115A and 126 as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    tom23 wrote: »
    Well I think who is referring to is obivious! ��

    I think he may need to spell it out.

    Bear in mind that some of us have various people on "ignore" for sanity reasons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭Norrie Thomas


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    It's not just Navan & M3 services (109/109A/109X and NX) though.

    There have been serious problems on the 111, 115/115A and 126 as well.

    All of this shows how truly wrongheaded the NTA were to suggest that express buses were the way forward for the Navan/M3 corridor route. The damage done to the credibility of the Navan Express service is immense but not to me at least in any way surprising.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    All of this shows how truly wrongheaded the NTA were to suggest that express buses were the way forward for the Navan/M3 corridor route. The damage done to the credibility of the Navan Express service is immense but not to me at least in any way surprising.

    It doesn't show anything of the sort.

    It shows that Bus Eireann clearly have internal rostering issues that have made operation of the new timetable impossible.

    Bus Eireann designed the rosters and are responsible for their implementation.

    The NTA specify the service levels that's all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭tom23


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    It doesn't show anything of the sort.

    It shows that Bus Eireann clearly have internal rostering issues that have made operation of the new timetable impossible.

    Bus Eireann designed the rosters and are responsible for their implementation.

    The NTA specify the service levels that's all.

    So what does that mean for the forseeabke future? More of the same? Or is simply teething problems that have to be worked out?

    Btw has anyone actually been on an NX that has gone onto the M50 at peak time? If so how long did it take?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭tom23


    All of this shows how truly wrongheaded the NTA were to suggest that express buses were the way forward for the Navan/M3 corridor route. The damage done to the credibility of the Navan Express service is immense but not to me at least in any way surprising.

    Expresses buses are the way forward in the absence of a rail service. But they really need to utilise m3. A designated QBC would help. I'd even pay more to use such a service. A train to Navan and maybe kells would be absolutely brilliant. I have kids starting g college in couple of years and I dread for them the commute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    tom23 wrote: »
    So what does that mean for the forseeabke future? More of the same? Or is simply teething problems that have to be worked out?

    Btw has anyone actually been on an NX that has gone onto the M50 at peak time? If so how long did it take?

    It means that Bus Eireann need to get their internal house in order and fast.

    Otherwise they ought to be penalised by the NTA for non-operation of services.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭tom23


    All of this shows how truly wrongheaded the NTA were to suggest that express buses were the way forward for the Navan/M3 corridor route. The damage done to the credibility of the Navan Express service is immense but not to me at least in any way surprising.

    Expresses buses are the way forward in the absence of a rail service. But they really need to utilise m3. A designated QBC would help. I'd even pay more to use such a service. A train to Navan and maybe kells would be absolutely brilliant. I have kids starting g college in couple of years and I dread for them the commute.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    It means that Bus Eireann need to get their internal house in order and fast.

    Otherwise they ought to be penalised by the NTA for non-operation of services.

    Yeah, that will get people to work. Round of applause to the NTA there :rolleyes:

    Instead of "No Trains Anywhere" they really should now be called "No Transport Anywhere"


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Yeah, that will get people to work. Round of applause to the NTA there :rolleyes:

    Instead of "No Trains Anywhere" they really should now be called "No Transport Anywhere"

    With respect - the issue right now is Bus Eireann's inability to deliver the service that they are being paid for, due to internal rostering issues within the company.

    Bus Eireann designed the rosters themselves and have been unable to deliver them since the weekend. As a result there have been numerous cancellations and an appalling lack of communication with their customers who just want the timetabled service to be delivered.

    Do you think that is acceptable and that they should be paid for it?

    That was my suggestion btw - nothing to do with the NTA.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭Norrie Thomas


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    With respect - the issue right now is Bus Eireann's inability to deliver the service that they are being paid for, due to internal rostering issues within the company.

    Bus Eireann designed the rosters themselves and have been unable to deliver them since the weekend. As a result there have been numerous cancellations and an appalling lack of communication with their customers who just want the timetabled service to be delivered.

    Do you think that is acceptable and that they should be paid for it?

    That was my suggestion btw - nothing to do with the NTA.

    It's 2017. By now we should have had Phase 2 of the Navan Rail link in place and we would not be having any of these discussions about buses. That is the fault of successive governments as they effectively stopped any further development once the M3 motorway was open. The fact that the project is now in limbo and the can has been kicked further and further down the road is entirely the fault of the NTA who claimed in their study of the M3 corridor that express buses would meet Navan's transport needs now and into the future. Clearly on the evidence shown this week they will not. While I entirely accept we must make do with buses for Navan in the short term, it's vital that Navan Rail comes back onto the table to provide long suffering Meath commuters promise of some respite from their misery at some point in the future and to plan properly for future expansion of Navan.

    Right now what the people of Navan and Meath have is inadequate and will stunt the growth of the town.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭gazzer


    Has anybody been on a 109x bus from Dublin to Cavan on either Monday or Tuesday? If so what was the journey time like and did the bus go through Finglas and onto the M50?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It's 2017. By now we should have had Phase 2 of the Navan Rail link in place and we would not be having any of these discussions about buses. That is the fault of successive governments as they effectively stopped any further development once the M3 motorway was open. The fact that the project is now in limbo and the can has been kicked further and further down the road is entirely the fault of the NTA who claimed in their study of the M3 corridor that express buses would meet Navan's transport needs now and into the future. Clearly on the evidence shown this week they will not. While I entirely accept we must make do with buses for Navan in the short term, it's vital that Navan Rail comes back onto the table to provide long suffering Meath commuters promise of some respite from their misery at some point in the future and to plan properly for future expansion of Navan.

    Right now what the people of Navan and Meath have is inadequate and will stunt the growth of the town.

    The issue of rail services is a wider one. This thread is about the Bus Eireann timetable changes.

    How can you come to the conclusion that the express bus service cannot deliver improvements if the reason for the problem this week is that Bus Eireann cancelled numerous scheduled departures off their own bat?

    The problem so far this week is that the new service has not been delivered in full by Bus Eireann due to internal staffing/rostering issues.

    How is that anyone else's problem other than Bus Eireann's?

    There has not yet been one day when the new timetable has operated in full due to buses being cancelled because of no driver being available.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    LXFlyer wrote: »

    How is that anyone else's problem other than Bus Eireann's?

    It is the blithe assumption by NTA and others that buses are sufficient to solve transport issues in Meath. Clearly they are not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    The issue of rail services is a wider one. This thread is about the Bus Eireann timetable changes.

    How can you come to the conclusion that the express bus service cannot deliver improvements if the reason for the problem this week is that Bus Eireann cancelled numerous scheduled departures off their own bat?

    The problem so far this week is that the new service has not been delivered in full by Bus Eireann due to internal staffing/rostering issues.

    How is that anyone else's problem other than Bus Eireann's?

    There has not yet been one day when the new timetable has operated in full due to buses being cancelled because of no driver being available.

    Very like Ryan Air!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    One thing to note that the 109X from Cavan only uses the motorway on every second service, not every service.

    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1504435671-109X.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    It is the blithe assumption by NTA and others that buses are sufficient to solve transport issues in Meath. Clearly they are not.

    I'd respectfully suggest that is a much wider issue, and frankly a much longer term one. I'm not arguing about the merits of the rail service or not. I set this thread up to discuss the new bus services that were being introduced.

    Right now the immediate issue is the non-delivery by Bus Eireann of the scheduled services that they're supposed to.

    That's what this thread is about - the bus service would be needed in the short to medium term regardless - or do you think it should remain unchanged with no service improvements until a rail option arrives?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Very like Ryan Air!

    Precisely but yet BE management seem to stick their heads in the sand, unlike the airline which admitted its failings.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    tom23 wrote: »
    For pig iron sake I got the bus on Monday. Driver went up the Ken'stown road and then straight down the Navan road after blanch it didnt go near the M50 but thank god he didn't as it looked like something out of a disaster movie it was that jammed. What ever operational issues BE are having they need to get sorted quickly if they want people to buy in. Unlike horsebuger most folk using it don't have an unconditional love for it and will gravitate to other ways of getting to work.

    Well done tom23. You're great fun, so you are.

    I do not have an unconditional love for any bus operator.

    I was pointing out that there will be people at the Blanchardstown stop, going to Navan, who want to use the new NX service, who don't want to take the general 109 service that goes through Clonee or Dunshaughlin, anymore than anyone else who is going to and from Navan and Dublin.

    In this discussion, it is clear that it is very hard for any bus operator, to please everyone, in the services between Dublin and Cavan.

    Cavan passengers don't want to go through Kells. Kells passengers don't want to go through Navan or Dunshaughlin. Navan passengers don't want to go through Dunshaughlin, Clonee or Blanchardstown. Dunshaughlin passengers don't want to go through Blanchardstown.

    The issue is, that on many of the services at particular times of the day, there is enough room, on particular services between Cavan and Dublin, for passengers at all intermediate stops; Virginia, Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin and Blanchardstown.

    I don't think it is possible, for Bus Éireann to run separate express services for each location to and from Dublin.

    Another bus company tried running a daily service between Cavan, Virginia and Dublin in October 2013, and it lasted a few weeks.

    http://www.donegaldaily.com/2013/10/16/mcgeehans-launch-fantastic-new-coach-service-to-dublin/

    http://www.donegaldaily.com/2013/10/19/dd-deal-of-the-day-buy-a-return-ticket-for-the-price-of-a-single-on-mcgeehan-coaches/


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Can we please keep this topic related to the discussion of the recent changes to the Bus Eireann routes on the N3/M3 corridor.

    Discussing railways in Navan in detail is outside the scope of this topic and if you want to discuss the pros and cons of any prospective rail service then feel free to start a new thread.

    Also a general reminder to all - please keep it civil.

    - Moderator.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭chewed


    I still don't understand why Dublin Bus can't include Dunshaughlin on their routes (and also include Blanch, Clonee, etc.).


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    chewed wrote: »
    I still don't understand why Dublin Bus can't include Dunshaughlin on their routes (and also include Blanch, Clonee, etc.).

    Would Dunshaughlin users prefer a standard Dublin Bus route that stops everywhere to pick up and set down (thereby risking not being able to get on at peak times) or one that operates in set down mode only inbound and pick up mode only outbound within the city area?

    I suspect they would prefer the latter?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭chewed


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Would Dunshaughlin users prefer a standard Dublin Bus route that stops everywhere to pick up and set down (thereby risking not being able to get on at peak times) or one that operates in set down mode only inbound and pick up mode only outbound within the city area?

    I suspect they would prefer the latter?

    Good point!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    chewed wrote: »
    I still don't understand why Dublin Bus can't include Dunshaughlin on their routes (and also include Blanch, Clonee, etc.).

    If Dublin Bus took on Dunshaughlin as one of its services and Bus Éireann discontinued serving Dunshaughlin, what services would be put in place to serve people going between Dunshaughlin and Navan and the stops in between?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭tom23


    Well done tom23. You're great fun, so you are.

    I do not have an unconditional love for any bus operator.

    I was pointing out that there will be people at the Blanchardstown stop, going to Navan, who want to use the new NX service, who don't want to take the general 109 service that goes through Clonee or Dunshaughlin, anymore than anyone else who is going to and from Navan and Dublin.

    In this discussion, it is clear that it is very hard for any bus operator, to please everyone, in the services between Dublin and Cavan.

    Cavan passengers don't want to go through Kells. Kells passengers don't want to go through Navan or Dunshaughlin. Navan passengers don't want to go through Dunshaughlin, Clonee or Blanchardstown. Dunshaughlin passengers don't want to go through Blanchardstown.

    The issue is, that on many of the services at particular times of the day, there is enough room, on particular services between Cavan and Dublin, for passengers at all intermediate stops; Virginia, Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin and Blanchardstown.

    I don't think it is possible, for Bus Éireann to run separate express services for each location to and from Dublin.

    Another bus company tried running a daily service between Cavan, Virginia and Dublin in October 2013, and it lasted a few weeks.

    http://www.donegaldaily.com/2013/10/16/mcgeehans-launch-fantastic-new-coach-service-to-dublin/

    http://www.donegaldaily.com/2013/10/19/dd-deal-of-the-day-buy-a-return-ticket-for-the-price-of-a-single-on-mcgeehan-coaches/

    It is possible in my opinion to run express buses. The 07:05 worked for the last four years. The best service in my opinion of commuting in the last twenty years. They just needed to provide more. That's all commuters wanted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭tara83


    Dunshaughlin does need some express buses at peak times. A decent bus lane on Navan Road in both directions is desperately needed


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    tom23 wrote: »
    It is possible in my opinion to run express buses. The 07:05 worked for the last four years. The best service in my opinion of commuting in the last twenty years. They just needed to provide more. That's all commuters wanted.

    I did not argue against running express services.

    Clearly there is enough people in Navan going to and from Dublin at certain times of the day, early morning and evening, to merit not stopping in places like Dunshaughlin or Clonee, but at other times, there wouldn't be enough people at the Market Square bus stop, to justify not stopping at the other intermediate stops on the way to Dublin city centre; in between Navan and Dunshaughlin, and between Dunshaughlin, Clonee and Blanchardstown, Navan Road, Cabra Road, Phibsborough and The Mater Hospital.

    I am not sure that there would be enough people going to and from Kells and Dublin, and to and from Virginia and Dublin, at any one scheduled time, to merit operating separate express services to and from Kells, Virginia and Dublin.

    It seems to me that it is only at certain times of the day to and from Navan and Dublin, early morning and evening, that you'd have enough people from one location using a particular scheduled service, to merit not stopping to pick up at other bus stops.

    At other times of the day, there is enough space to accommodate all passengers waiting at the intermediate stops on the services between Cavan and Dublin, and the services between Kells and Dublin.

    I guess that is why Bus Éireann has decided to include the Blanchardstown stop as an intermediate stop on the new NX service. In another post, above, it was suggested that passengers at Blanchardstown, should just use the 109 service between Kells and Dublin, rather than the new NX service.

    I think that it is a little unreasonable to suggest that passengers at Blanchardstown, who are going to Navan, should just use the 109 service that covers Clonee and Dunshaughlin, considering that anyone going to Navan, from Dublin City Centre, or from Blanchardstown to Navan, would opt for the service that avoids Clonee and Dunshaughlin, if they have a choice.

    As far as I know, Bus Éireann has never operated an express service between Kells and Dublin, a service that started in Kells and had its first stop in Dublin City Centre. I don’t think Bus Éireann has ever operated an express service starting to and from Virginia and Dublin, with no stops in between. If it did, they have not been in operation for many years.

    Some of the previous 109 services from Cavan to Dublin, served Virginia and Kells and then avoided Navan and Dunshaughlin, but as far as I know there was never a 109 service, that started and ended in Kells and had Dublin City Centre, as its first and only stop when going to Dublin, or a service that started and ended in Virginia, that, when going to Dublin, had Dublin City Centre as its only stop.

    I guess this is because Bus Éireann found, that far more often than not, there wasn't enough people in Kells or Virginia, using particular scheduled services, to fill a bus, or almost fill separate express bus services to Dublin, that would start and end in Virginia, and start and end in Kells, to justify not serving other locations like Navan and Dunshaughlin?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,845 ✭✭✭✭somesoldiers


    I sometimes give a lad a lift from our estate down to the bus stop, he mentioned to me last week that it would be a while before he'd see me again as the new time table meant he could get up 30 mins later and still get to work at the same time.

    Met him yesterday "how did the new timetable go on Monday", "I was two hours late for work", teething problems I suppose


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