The Anglo Irish Economic War - Is History repeating itself and where are we at now ??

PatsytheNazi
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As part of the terms of the Treaty, we had to pay the ex British civil service pensions who served in Ireland if I remember rightly and that included the RIC ( not sure about those from the new Free State who were in the British army). Quite a draining wage bill for a new state I think you'd agree.

brianthebard wrote: »

For most of the 19th century Ireland gave Britain more wealth than it received back in investment, etc. However for a short period before independence with the arrival of oap and other things Ireland was actually receiving slightly more than it gave Britain I believe. So I don't think it would have been cost neutral tbh.

CDfm
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More impoertantly, from a Marxist persective and Marx was primarily an economist , you had had the redistribution of the land etc.

Where did we go from there.

What were our opportunities and cock-ups ?

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

So your telling me the RIC weren't at the fore front of combatting the IRA ? I suppose he'll tell us now that they were only helping old ladies across the road and fining fellas for having no light on their bicycle etc. Try reading On Another Man's Wound or Guerilla Days in Ireland or Tim Pat Coogan's The IRA sometime.

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

If their's anyone been selective and naive around here buddy it's you and throw in obstinate with that . Clearly in the Irish struggle for independence the RIC acted as an oppresive force - and that was long before 1916 - 1921 against the Fenians, Young Irelanders etc. Besides, they had a earned a deep resentment of the Irish people in the century previous for evictions etc during the Famine, Land War, assaults on Dublin workers in the Great Lockout 1913 etc

Life in the constabulary during the 19th century could certainly, on occasions, be difficult. There was periodic agrarian unrest and constant simmering discontent in relation to the land question, particularly in the south and west. Indeed the dominant image of the R.I.C. for many people often stems from its responsibility to give protection to bailiffs executing distress warrants and evicting tenants, an unpleasant duty that was greatly disliked by members of the force (most of whom were themselves from a rural background). Nevertheless, the duties of the averagepoliceman were otherwise usually varied and uncontroversial.

These extensive civil and local government duties as well as routine patrolling in their districts ensured that the police constable was a very familiar part of daily life, someone with whom people would expect to have regular contact. It was the constable's job to acquire a thorough knowledge of his district and good relations with the local community made this easier. Indeed, good community relations, then as now, were essential for effective policing.

By the end of the 19th century there was a total of around 1,600 barracks dotted around the Irish countryside and some 11,000 constables. The territorial division of county and district on which the command structure had been based since the 1836 reorganization continued throughout the life of the R.I.C. Each county was supervised by a county inspector, with the counties sub-divided into a number of districts, each headed by a district inspector. They in turn were assisted by a head constable based at the district headquarters, on whom rested the main responsibility for operational policing and the conduct of the men in the barracks. There were a number of barracks in each district, usually with a sergeant and four constables.

The R.I.C. was characterised by a strict code of discipline. There was no official system of duty, rest days or annual leave, and in the interests of political impartiality members were even banned from voting at parliamentary elections. There were strict instructions laid down in police regulations concerning standards of conduct and appearance (for example, at one time police were absolutely prohibited from entering a public house socially). Other regulations were principally designed to maintain the standing of the police within the community. Members were forbidden to marry until they had at least seven years service and any potential bride had to be vetted by the constabulary authorities to ensure her social suitability. It was forbidden for policemen and their wives to sell produce, take lodgers or engage in certain forms of trade (for example, wives could be dressmakers but could not employ apprentices).

By the early years of the 20th century the R.I.C. had evolved into a thoroughly domesticated civil police force, reflecting in its operations the needs of relatively law-abiding communities. During the 19th century the force had also become increasingly representative in its religious composition. (Until the Anglo-Irish War it was more than 70% Catholic, and thus very close to the recorded Catholic proportion of the population during 1861-1911. ) From the 1870's most regular policing duties did not call for the carrying of firearms. Indeed familiarity with firearms had to be maintained by a once yearly target practice laid down in the regulations. Between the Land War (1879-82) and 1916 the R.I.C. was not seriously challenged by major unrest or controversy. The Constabulary had settled down to low-key routine policing, with the members of the force enjoying a position of high regard in the local areas in which they served.

Due to their ubiquity from the 1850s the RIC were tasked with a range of civil and local government duties together with their existing ones, closely tying the constables to their local communities. By 1901 there were around 1,600 barracks and some 11,000 constables. The majority of the lower ranks in rural areas were of the same social class, religion and general background as their neighbours. Through their enforcement of evictions in rural Ireland and their approach to Land league leaders, the RIC had attracted widespread opprobrium among the Irish Catholic population during the nineteenth century. However, during the relative calm of the late Victorian and Edwardian periods, the RIC won general acceptance as an efficient organisation which served as a model for similar forces elsewhere in the British Empire and was no more unpopular at home than effective police forces generally are. The military ethos of the RIC with its "barracks" (usually simply rented houses), carbines and emphasis on army style drill and smartness distinguished the force from civil police in Great Britain and Dublin. Throughout its history the RIC wore a distinctive dark green uniform with black buttons and insignia, derived in style from the Rifle Brigade of the British army.

The comparative ease of the RIC's existence was however increasingly troubled by the rise of the Home Rule campaign in the period prior to World War I. Sir Neville Chamberlain was appointed Inspector-General in 1900. His years in the RIC coincided with the rise of a number of political, cultural and sporting organizations with the common aim of asserting Ireland's separateness from England.

By the December 1920, 'Government of Ireland Act' which created the two states on the island, and the 1921 truce, 418 RIC personnel had been killed in two years. The Anglo-Irish Treaty was the cause of the Irish Civil War. In January 1922, it was agreed to disband the RIC, replacing it with the Garda Síochána in the Free State and the Royal Ulster Constabulary in Northern Ireland.

CDfm wrote: »

An aside did Ireland ever send a team to the Commonwealth Games ???