Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

robp · 09-11-2018 5:30pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

That article was very odd, wanting a wilderness implying non-intervention but also wanting the rhodedendrons removed, which is it they want?

I don't think the proposed cycle track is going to involve massive construction, presume it will be mainly for mountain bikes, so similar to other Coillte paths and tracks. Ok it's not non-intervention but it's not exactly building a road through it.

Most conservationists like myself would call for rhododendron removal. If the track is like any of the Irish greenways that I have seen it would be radically more busy than the current trail. It literally is aiming to end the isolation of the site the only thing that makes the area unique in the first place.

AndrewJRenko · 10-11-2018 1:49pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

I appreciate what you're saying but it's unrealistic to expect everywhere to be accessible to everybody nice and all as that might be. I wouldn't expect to be able to visit the top of Mt.Everest if I was in a wheelchair, on crutches or pushing a pram. Extreme I know but it's a valid point of view in my opinion.

A Norman castle isn't Mount Everest. It's a Norman castle.

And the extreme efforts that owners and architects go through to make any changes to protected structures like that ensure that our heritage is well protected. And the best protection that we can give these buildings is to ensure they are well used by the widest possible audience.

Personally, I've never heard of a Norman castle with a lift, but it can be done sensitively without damaging the underlying structure and in a way that can be reversed if required, then bring it on. When you have a family member in a wheelchair or using a walking frame, you'll be glad of it.

Muckyboots · 10-11-2018 10:44pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Everything in Ireland must be sacrificed for the great god of mammon. Access to everywhere for everybody - our local Norman castle now has a lift in it. :rolleyes:

I hear ya, Del. Our lovely abandoned heritage railway station has a hand full of rail fanatics trying to run flipping trains through it. :rolleyes:

monument · 11-11-2018 6:26am

robp wrote: »

I was gobsmacked at the plan to convert the western way into a green way in the Wild Nephin area. What a joke of environmental management. It is the only site like this in the whole country and they insist on commercialising it https://greennews.ie/is-wild-nephin-losing-its-wild-side/

I used to criticise people here in Mayo for saying some people (mainly from around Dublin) want to turn the county into a park for Germans or Dubliners, but maybe they were not so wrong. They just want to restrict visitors to a select few, including themselves.

The article you linked to trips over itself at least three times —

(1) by going along with the re-naming of the park to Wild Nephin etc and also trying to keep using Wild Nephin to just to mean the wilder area.

(2) getting worked up about needed maintenance to try to control invasive plants because it doesn’t fit with wildness but the original promoter of the scheme Bill Murphy said in another article that control of invasive plants would need to be on-going.

(3) implying the area is going to be destroyed by a greenway following an existing path — this is like the people who generally think gravel paths are “natural”... if your problem is existing paths, fair enough but be clearer about it.

(4) implying there’s a huge risk to the wilder area when the article says the greenway route will follow the Westren Way and the “The Western Way enters into the Wild Nephin wilderness area between Letterkeen and Bellacorick but doesn’t encroach upon the core area of the wilderness zone.”

(5) “Instead, thousands of tourists will be cycling through conifer plantations and fields of rhododendron” — so, is it effecting a wild area or not.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Everything in Ireland must be sacrificed for the great god of mammon. Access to everywhere for everybody - our local Norman castle now has a lift in it. :rolleyes:

What has mammon to do with a lift in a castle?

robp · 11-11-2018 2:48pm

monument wrote: »

I used to criticise people here in Mayo for saying some people (mainly from around Dublin) want to turn the county into a park for Germans or Dubliners, but maybe they were not so wrong. They just want to restrict visitors to a select few, including themselves.

The article you linked to trips over itself at least three times —

(1) by going along with the re-naming of the park to Wild Nephin etc and also trying to keep using Wild Nephin to just to mean the wilder area.

(2) getting worked up about needed maintenance to try to control invasive plants because it doesn’t fit with wildness but the original promoter of the scheme Bill Murphy said in another article that control of invasive plants would need to be on-going.

(3) implying the area is going to be destroyed by a greenway following an existing path — this is like the people who generally think gravel paths are “natural”... if your problem is existing paths, fair enough but be clearer about it.

(4) implying there’s a huge risk to the wilder area when the article says the greenway route will follow the Westren Way and the “The Western Way enters into the Wild Nephin wilderness area between Letterkeen and Bellacorick but doesn’t encroach upon the core area of the wilderness zone.”

(5) “Instead, thousands of tourists will be cycling through conifer plantations and fields of rhododendron” — so, is it effecting a wild area or not.

What has mammon to do with a lift in a castle?

Well I am certainly not from Dublin or Germany and I don't think where anyone is from should determine the validity of their words. Anyone who thinks a German would need to come to Ireland to find a wild place knows very little about Germany. Germany like most western European countries has far far more wild spaces than Ireland.

1) I think you are confusing the how the land was zoned. Bill Murphy of Coillte zoned the entire space as wild nephin with an inner no human trace zone called the primitive area.
2) The article is not flawless and these contradictions reflect debates in the conservation movement on how wild spaces should be managed.
3) Google the current track. It is rugged broken trail. I don't know how much Irish greenways vary but the ones I have seen look as domestic as a city track. It is a totally different kettle of fish. I don't think the marketing of the area will be honest if such a track is going through the wildest.
4) the western way follows the edge of the primitive zone. Not the core. Greenways are great but they should stay on the perimeters of such places.

schemingbohemia · 12-11-2018 11:48am

Is this "Greenway" not going to be more of a trail than a say Great Western or Waterford style Greenway?

Tigerandahalf · 20-11-2018 9:11pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Is this "Greenway" not going to be more of a trail than a say Great Western or Waterford style Greenway?

I wonder will some of the current timber boardwalks be part of this wild nephin trail or are they separate parts?

Meanwhile more funding allocated to the Cliften greenway and a nice link being done between Boyle and Lough Key. Boyle could be a real winner out of that.
Lots of other walking, cycling and mountain biking funding upgrades in the link below.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1120/1012115-greenway/

Corca Baiscinn · 20-11-2018 10:39pm

[QUOTE=Meanwhile more funding allocated to the Cliften greenway and a nice link being done between Boyle and Lough Key. Boyle could be a real winner out of that.
Lots of other walking, cycling and mountain biking funding upgrades in the link below.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1120/1012115-greenway/[/QUOTE]

Lough Key - Boyle great idea, road wide with hard shoulder but 100 kph speed limit so not one you'd take kids on. Now when IR are providing 8 bike spaces on trains as per EU Parliament decision last week the icing wil be on the cake!

20-11-2018 11:44pm

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Now when IR are providing 8 bike spaces on trains as per EU Parliament decision last week the icing wil be on the cake!

Wut? Got more info?

Sam Russell · 21-11-2018 12:23am

Deleted User wrote: »

Wut? Got more info?

It is a propsed new regulation for new or refurbed trains - at least 8 bike psitions per train.

It needs to be actioned by the Concil and Commission.

blueballfc · 21-11-2018 9:30am

Royal Canal and Grand canal to connect at Kilbeggan.
Delighted this got funded
https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/lifestyle/348694/500-000-funding-announced-for-midlands-greenway-project.html

Corca Baiscinn · 21-11-2018 10:05am

blueballfc wrote: »

Royal Canal and Grand canal to connect at Kilbeggan.
Delighted this got funded
https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/lifestyle/348694/500-000-funding-announced-for-midlands-greenway-project.html

Yeeay...Networks! Waterways equivalent of From sea to shining sea"!

riddlinrussell · 21-11-2018 11:21am

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I wonder will some of the current timber boardwalks be part of this wild nephin trail or are they separate parts?

Meanwhile more funding allocated to the Cliften greenway and a nice link being done between Boyle and Lough Key. Boyle could be a real winner out of that.
Lots of other walking, cycling and mountain biking funding upgrades in the link below.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1120/1012115-greenway/

Thanks for this! Updated the map with a number of projects on there!

blueballfc · 21-11-2018 5:57pm

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »
Yeeay...Networks! Waterways equivalent of From sea to shining sea"!

and more greenway news on Boyneside Trail facebook page
"Meath County Council working with Fingal to develop Greenway from Newbridge House Donabate to Newgrange. Report by Hubert Murphy Drogheda Indo. Planning application imminent on Maiden Tower, Mornington to Drogheda. Game changer for Boyne Valley tourism development."

Tigerandahalf · 21-11-2018 6:11pm

All these greenways are great. They'll become a bucket list of trails to tick off and a great way to visit and see different parts of the country.

I wonder will we eventually see some sort of orbital route covering the whole country that could be marketed and maybe cycled over a week or so. Great potential there anyway.

bk · 21-11-2018 6:19pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I wonder will we eventually see some sort of orbital route covering the whole country that could be marketed and maybe cycled over a week or so. Great potential there anyway.

It would end up being a massive tourist draw IMO. Much like the Wild Atlantic Way has been.

I'd also love to see us develop hiking routes more too.

It is smart for us to take advantage of our rugged beauty and attract more adventure type tourism. We will never be a sun destination, but we do have an awful lot to offer for those looking for a different type of holiday, which has become much more popular these days. Young people today seem to be more interested in experiences then simple traditional sun holidays.

schemingbohemia · 23-11-2018 2:38pm

Great Southern Greenway awarded €2.7m in improvement works under Rural Regeneration Fund

https://drcd.gov.ie/about/news-centre/press-releases/taoiseach-and-minister-ring-announce-first-successful-applicants-under-e1-billion-rural-regeneration-and-development-fund/

Should see significant improvements made and attract more users. Good News.

riddlinrussell · 23-11-2018 3:04pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Great Southern Greenway awarded €2.7m in improvement works under Rural Regeneration Fund

https://drcd.gov.ie/about/news-centre/press-releases/taoiseach-and-minister-ring-announce-first-successful-applicants-under-e1-billion-rural-regeneration-and-development-fund/

Should see significant improvements made and attract more users. Good News.

Another interesting one I see there (marked on map also now) Is the restoration of the Borris Viaduct, presumably as part of a walking trail? I imagine that restoration would be a major component of the work to turn that section of disused railway into a greenway.

I haven't heard of any other plans to do so but given the opposition in that area to the canal greenway there could be a focus shift to the railway as an alternative in future?

Qrt · 23-11-2018 9:18pm

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Another interesting one I see there (marked on map also now) Is the restoration of the Borris Viaduct, presumably as part of a walking trail? I imagine that restoration would be a major component of the work to turn that section of disused railway into a greenway.

I haven't heard of any other plans to do so but given the opposition in that area to the canal greenway there could be a focus shift to the railway as an alternative in future?

Which canal? And which opposition? I always wonder why these get so much criticism half the time.

Corca Baiscinn · 23-11-2018 9:30pm

Qrt wrote: »

Which canal? And which opposition? I always wonder why these get so much criticism half the time.

Barrow Navigation Canal, Olivia O' Leary who is from Borris objected strongly to the towpath being made suitable for cycling as well as walking. Something got to do with peace ad quiet and wild-life and wanting to keep the current surface and not widen the path if I remember rightly. Planning Permission was refused. It was Waterways Ireland who wanted to develop it

Markcheese · 23-11-2018 10:39pm

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Barrow Navigation Canal, Olivia O' Leary who is from Borris objected strongly to the towpath being made suitable for cycling as well as walking. Something got to do with peace ad quiet and wild-life and wanting to keep the current surface and not widen the path if I remember rightly. Planning Permission was refused. It was Waterways Ireland who wanted to develop it

I'd have no problem with improving access to the tow path, but can see the point in not having everything to a cycleway standard..

24-11-2018 10:52am

Markcheese wrote: »

I'd have no problem with improving access to the tow path, but can see the point in not having everything to a cycleway standard..

Thing is its not just cycling

It's wheelchair users
It's prams
It's those with mobility issues

A level surface is exactly what you need to ensure full social inclusion of all community members

cantalach · 24-11-2018 2:16pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is a propsed new regulation for new or refurbed trains - at least 8 bike psitions per train.

It needs to be actioned by the Concil and Commission.

Is it 8 per train or per carriage? If it's the former then this isn't much of a win seeing as IR already has spaces for, what is it, six bikes per train?

Del.Monte · 24-11-2018 2:32pm

cantalach wrote: »

Is it 8 per train or per carriage? If it's the former then this isn't much of a win seeing as IR already has spaces for, what is it, six bikes per train?

It must be per train as there's not enough space for 8 or even 2 per carriage.

Sam Russell · 24-11-2018 2:37pm

cantalach wrote: »

Is it 8 per train or per carriage? If it's the former then this isn't much of a win seeing as IR already has spaces for, what is it, six bikes per train?

It says 'per train'. I'm not sure of the number of places on IR intercity trains - I thought it was two.

24-11-2018 8:57pm

2 is correct

Del.Monte · 24-11-2018 10:04pm

Of course, if we still had proper trains instead of glorified sardine cans there would be plenty of room for bikes, parcels and more.

Markcheese · 24-11-2018 10:11pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thing is its not just cycling

It's wheelchair users
It's prams
It's those with mobility issues

A level surface is exactly what you need to ensure full social inclusion of all community members

. . . . But do all paths everywhere have to be to that standard?
I used to walk a lot of forest tracks, totally unsuited to anything other than foot, or something like the old Kenmare road... Again it's a hiking/walking track,
I'm not against greenways, and think where a path is being newly built and is practical to make it a greenway then great but theres room for difference too..

bk · 25-11-2018 7:46pm

Markcheese wrote: »

. . . . But do all paths everywhere have to be to that standard?
I used to walk a lot of forest tracks, totally unsuited to anything other than foot, or something like the old Kenmare road... Again it's a hiking/walking track,
I'm not against greenways, and think where a path is being newly built and is practical to make it a greenway then great but theres room for difference too..

As an enthusiastic hiker myself, I get what you are saying. But the difference here is that you are talking about a path right beside a canal, something that is a man made structure in the first place and secondly are usually very flat and thus very suited to a more accessible path.

No one is suggesting that you put a lift up Lugnaquilla, but canal paths do seem like ideal locations for improved accessibility.

Corca Baiscinn · 25-11-2018 9:44pm

cantalach wrote: »

Is it 8 per train or per carriage? If it's the former then this isn't much of a win seeing as IR already has spaces for, what is it, six bikes per train?

True 8 wouldn't equal whats available on trains in many European countries but it would be a big improvement on 2. People have often failed to book their bikes on a train to Westport or Waterford Greenways and anyone doing a Sportive away from their home base has to have a car to get there & Mammy/Daddy can only take one child on a bike trip. Even the 2 available spaces often have luggage piled in them.

Cork trains take bikes in a separate bike-carriage like in days of old so better options there.

If we are developing all the Greenways primarily to attract tourism and revenue., (And DTASS does classify the funding under Tourism) we'd want to get with the bike transport. Yes, hire is great but some people will want to bring their own but wont necessarily want to cycle al the way form the port or airport or pay to bring a car too or hire one to get the bike from Dublin or Rosslare to Kerry/Mayo etc.

Some airports abroad provide facilities to make it easy to assemble and pump a bike again after a flight so something else we'd need to look at

Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

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