Child allowance and separation

smokingman · 03-10-2019 2:55pm #1

Hi all,

Going through a separation and she wants all the child allowance (560 per month) as well as the maintenance money I have to give. She's on good money and is effectively on more than me with the child allowance but if custody is 50/50, is the child allowance not meant to be shared in that situation?

Cork Trucker · 07-10-2019 5:34pm

smokingman wrote: »

Hi all,

Going through a separation and she wants all the child allowance (560 per month) as well as the maintenance money I have to give. She's on good money and is effectively on more than me with the child allowance but if custody is 50/50, is the child allowance not meant to be shared in that situation?

When you say child allowance are you actually referring to the child benefit payment each month or is this something you have arranged between yourselves that is separate to maintenance? If maintenance is an issue then mediation might be a possibility? Failing all else court really should be a last resort. The most the district court can award is €150 maintenance per week

smokingman · 08-10-2019 6:17am

Was referring to the government child benefit. Only realised during the mediation what it was every month as I've never seen a bit of it over the years.

jennyhayes123 · 13-10-2019 11:04am

Why are you paying maintenance if 50/50 custody

smokingman · 13-10-2019 8:45pm

jennyhayes123 wrote: »

Why are you paying maintenance if 50/50 custody

I'm also wondering that...from what I read, that still happens but I'm absolutely lost as to the logic

Gatling · 13-10-2019 8:47pm

smokingman wrote: »

Was referring to the government child benefit. Only realised during the mediation what it was every month as I've never seen a bit of it over the years.

Your not not supposed to see it ,
It's for the kids actually most TDs will say it's the women's reward for carrying and raising children

FishOnABike · 13-10-2019 9:19pm

Is the maintenance you have to give as a result of a court order or something you have agreed between each other either informally or through some form of mediation process?

smokingman · 14-10-2019 7:55am

FishOnABike wrote: »

Is the maintenance you have to give as a result of a court order or something you have agreed between each other either informally or through some form of mediation process?

It's her demand in a mediation process

Dtp1979 · 14-10-2019 8:01am

If custody is 50/50 then no maintenance should be paid by either party. Child Expenses should be split between the parents and children’s allowence should be 50/50 too.
But knowing the backward system Ireland have, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for fairness

FishOnABike · 14-10-2019 9:04am

smokingman wrote: »

It's her demand in a mediation process

She needs to be reasonable. If you are both working and on similar money and your child spends half their time with each of you I don't see why any maintenance should be paid to either parent by the other parent.

You should each have similar day to day expenses, both for yourselves and for while you are looking after your child.

Child benefit is paid to the parent with whom the child lives with for the majority of the time and by default to the mother.

There is also a Single Person Child Carer Credit. Only one parent or guardian of a child can claim the SPCCC in a tax year. You may only claim one credit, even if you care for more than one child. This credit came into effect on 1 January 2014. The value of this tax credit is €1,650 per year.

One of you may also be entitled to an increased rate band of €4,000. This is an additional €4,000 at the 20% tax rate. If you are due the SPCCC, then you are automatically due the increased rate band.

Where there is equal custody whoever receives the child benefit payment will be regarded as the ‘primary claimant’ for the SPCCC.

If you are on similar income and have similar financial responsibilities to your child your wife will probably be the recipient of Child Benefit, SPCCC and increased standard rate tax band. All in all that's worth several thousand nett which should be enough to cover any extras e.g. extracurricular or sport activities.

I don't see in the circumstances why she should receive any maintenance in a 50/50 parenting situation. She would already be in a more favourable financial position than yourself. If anything she should possibly be paying maintenance to you.

XsApollo · 14-10-2019 9:54am

Just a question on the above.
So is the 4000euro tax band in addition to the SPCCC, do you have to apply for the increase to 4000euro or is it automatically applied if you are in receipt of SPCCC already.

Also can it be applied to either the primary or secondary carer.

Thanks.

FishOnABike · 14-10-2019 10:38am

XsApollo wrote: »

Just a question on the above.
So is the 4000euro tax band in addition to the SPCCC, do you have to apply for the increase to 4000euro or is it automatically applied if you are in receipt of SPCCC already.

Also can it be applied to either the primary or secondary carer.

Thanks.

See
https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/children/single-person-child-carer-credit/index.aspx

Child Benefit, SPCCC and the increased tax band follow one another i.e. one is a qualifying criteria for the next. AFAIK all or any of them can be transferred from the primary carer to the secondary carer by consent of the primary carer.

smokingman · 26-10-2019 10:56am

FishOnABike wrote: »

She needs to be reasonable. If you are both working and on similar money and your child spends half their time with each of you I don't see why any maintenance should be paid to either parent by the other parent.

You should each have similar day to day expenses, both for yourselves and for while you are looking after your child.

Child benefit is paid to the parent with whom the child lives with for the majority of the time and by default to the mother.

There is also a Single Person Child Carer Credit. Only one parent or guardian of a child can claim the SPCCC in a tax year. You may only claim one credit, even if you care for more than one child. This credit came into effect on 1 January 2014. The value of this tax credit is €1,650 per year.

One of you may also be entitled to an increased rate band of €4,000. This is an additional €4,000 at the 20% tax rate. If you are due the SPCCC, then you are automatically due the increased rate band.

Where there is equal custody whoever receives the child benefit payment will be regarded as the ‘primary claimant’ for the SPCCC.

If you are on similar income and have similar financial responsibilities to your child your wife will probably be the recipient of Child Benefit, SPCCC and increased standard rate tax band. All in all that's worth several thousand nett which should be enough to cover any extras e.g. extracurricular or sport activities.

I don't see in the circumstances why she should receive any maintenance in a 50/50 parenting situation. She would already be in a more favourable financial position than yourself. If anything she should possibly be paying maintenance to you.

I'm on about 20g more than her but she's at above the average wage. Her childcare is 400 a month and mine is 1000 because I work more hours than her so I do have more costs. She's buying me out of the mortgage and will have a bigger one as a result but she gets to keep the tracker we had and I don't so my monthly mortgage is higher than hers. I know it sounds fair that I shouldn't have to pay her money given all that but I've read enough on here to see that what's fair for dads doesn't usually happen that much in reality. Do you know if it actually happens that judges rule in fairness in this country any more or is it automatically assumed that dads are purely something to bankroll a wife's social life instead? According to my maths, she has over a grand a month after bill's whereas I'm at -630 if she gets her demands.

AulWan · 26-10-2019 11:32pm

smokingman wrote: »

Hi all,

Going through a separation and she wants all the child allowance (560 per month) as well as the maintenance money I have to give. She's on good money and is effectively on more than me with the child allowance but if custody is 50/50, is the child allowance not meant to be shared in that situation?

The simplest way to make sure child benefit is shared fairly, is to include it in any calculations for child maintenance.

Add up all the monthly child related costs, deduct child allowance and the value of the SPCCC, and then the balance that remains is the amount that should be divided between the parents.

If your mediator is any good, this is what they should be doing. If they aren't, make sure you point it out to them. Child Benefit is not a "mother's reward" its considered a family benefit.

Even if custody is shared 50/50, there will always be some expenses that will fall more to one parent then the other. (e.g. who buys the majority of clothes, pays health insurance, does the Santa shop, etc), so that is why there is usually a small maintenance amount to cover those big items.

[Deleted User] · 19-02-2022 7:45pm

Very informative thread. Thanks.

A couple of observations. If, say, you have two children would it make sense for each parent to get the child benefit, SPCCC and tax credit for a single child?

Second, be conscious of that payment going into your account if you are applying for a mortgage. If, say, you do not declare the children on the mortgage application but they see a payment going into your account, could this have a negative consequence for the amount of mortgage they give you? Again, think about the consequences of what you claim, and when you claim it.

Third, and this was only driven home to me last week, if you are paying maintenance there will be serious implications for the amount you can borrow. Do a test application for the Local Authority Homeloan and see your much your loan will decline when you put in a maintenance figure: https://localauthorityhomeloan.ie/eligibility/

You need to ensure that whatever maintenance, if anything, you're paying is very, very small. If that means taking 50:50 custody then that could be the financially smartest thing to do because if you cannot get a mortgage you could be financially condemned to renting for the rest of your days. So, think about this issue seriously. If you think you financially cannot do 50:50 custody, think again because the alternative of renting could financially be significantly worse for your financial health.

[Deleted User] · 20-02-2022 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058020167/child-allowance-and-separation

No.

Child Benefit (along with single parent tax credit) is meant to be factored in when calculating any maintenance - i.e. the value of CB and tax credit deducted from the child related costs, and then the balance of costs is divided between the parents.

Many are of the impression that 50:50 should automatically result in no maintenance. It does not usually work out that way. The reason being it will usually fall to one parent to pay the childminder or the GP /medical /dental bills or who buys all the clothes/shoes, school costs, activities, haircuts etc. Its better (imo) to factor CB in, than meeting up and sitting down to argue over/split receipts every couple of weeks.

If there is any excess CB left over after costs should be saved in an account for Christmas or the children's further education (in my opinion). A reasonable separated couple should be able to figure it out. DSP do not have the resources to split child benefit payments between separated parents.

For the record, CB was never a payment to reward mothers for having and raising children. It is payable to fathers, where they are the primary carers. Historically, CB was introduced as a payment to ensure wives whose husbands controlled the family income or spent their wages down the pub, had enough money to feed their kids!

(eta) see this is an old thread from 2019. Hope you got it sorted, @smokingman

[Deleted User] · 20-02-2022 4:40pm

"DSP do not have the resources to split child benefit payments between separated parents."

But do they have the resources to pay child benefit from one child to one parent, and pay child benefit from another child to the second parent? (if so, in a two-child home that could negate the need for maintenance payment in the even of each parent earning much the same money)

[Deleted User] · 20-02-2022 11:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663810#Comment_118663810

Why would they get involved at all? It's still splitting the claim and doubling the administration.

No doubt problems would arise with disputes amongst separated claimants as to who was entitled to what share of the CB payment.

More efficient from DSP perspective to make the payment to one parent, and then let them sort how to divide it up between themselves.

smokingman · 26-02-2022 1:01am

I'm afraid I'm in just the same position I was back then.

My ex has refused all requests at engagement, tried to bring them on foreign holidays without my consent, ignored all covid restrictions and let her friends sleep in our house multiple times during level 5 lockdown, let her friend bully our eldest and generally had a great time for herself while I am unable to do anything for fear of her lying to another judge about me (she said I was abusive and violent to get me out of the house to begin with and knowing 2 friends who actually went through that for real makes her manipulation of the legal system even more sickening)

Covid delays in the court have also been a pain but I'm hoping something is happening soon in that regard.

Fingers crossed...

[Deleted User] · 26-02-2022 12:13pm

Sorry to hear that @smokingman

Abuse of safety, protection and barring orders in particular, is a personal bugbear of mine.

I hope you get a fairer result at your next hearing.

amdublin · 27-02-2022 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/111501285#Comment_111501285

?????

What do you mean you are not supposed to see it?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html

It is up to the Parent(s) what to spend it on. For some families: it is needed every week towards food and bills etc. For others they put it into savings fund for holidays. For others they put it in to savings for college. Etc. There is no set rule what this money is for, except that it is a benefit for the child

smokingman · 28-02-2022 12:43am

When my first born came into this world, I had an oral agreement with my ex that it was to be put into a college fund for our children. I trusted my wife implicitly and always assumed the account we agreed about was already set up.

I've since found out that no such account exists and what would have had over 60 grand in it, was spent.

It was an oral agreement though so can't be presented in court, which kind of bites...

amdublin · 28-02-2022 5:02pm

Oh shoot :( So sorry to hear this

Child allowance and separation

Comments