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15-04-2018, 20:05   #1516
Faugheen
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Originally Posted by FrancieBrady View Post
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I'm not inventing facts.

I'm giving my view on what I think happened, using the evidence that was displayed in court.

You have a different view, which is fine.

However, you're the one trying to say that I'm 'slanting' the case against the defence.

I've said I believe Jackson and Olding's perceptions that they believe it was consensual.

However, I also believe her perception that she believes she was raped.

It is possible to do both, and the reason why is because she said she froze, and the lads were to have no idea that she had withdrawn consent.

Stop ****ing following me to find offence with everything I post. I see you went very quiet on the last misrepresentation you made.
No, you corrected the record on the what you had said.

I have previously pointed out sensationalist and inaccurate references to the trial facts by other posters, don't think yourself unique.

And I see you corrected another poster there too. Is that something only you are allowed to do?
You're not 'correcting me' on anything though, you're saying my opinion is wrong and that I'm trying to put a slant on the case.

Absolutely not the case whatsoever. What is 'incorrect' about the facts I have presented?

Remember, me saying I believe both sides' perceptions is an opinion, not a fact.

Me saying the complainant was a credible witness is an opinion, not a fact.

You claimed I was showcasing 'nasty tactics' by the defence and used two examples of the defence challenging the judge and trying to get the case thrown out. When did I say and how are these percieved to be nasty tactics?

I don't mind debate, but you're literally trying to find outrage and offence with my posts when there is nothing there but my opinion.

Piss. Off.
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15-04-2018, 20:08   #1517
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That's not true. Paddy Jackson said in his latest statement that he did not want to leave.
If he had a choice I would expect that his preference would be for everyone to respect the decision of the jury so he could stay and represent his country. However, given the circumstances he'll take the nice bag of money from the IRFU, add it to the nice bag of money he'll make in France, and likely add to it the nice bag of money he'll get from the BBC. Unfortunately a decent chunk of that will be going to cover his legal expenses but at least he will be away from the mob who would be following him around demanding his head if he stayed here.
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15-04-2018, 20:10   #1518
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You're not 'correcting me' on anything though, you're saying my opinion is wrong and that I'm trying to put a slant on the case.

Absolutely not the case whatsoever. What is 'incorrect' about the facts I have presented?

Remember, me saying I believe both sides' perceptions is an opinion, not a fact.

Me saying the complainant was a credible witness is an opinion, not a fact.

You claimed I was showcasing 'nasty tactics' by the defence and used two examples of the defence challenging the judge and trying to get the case thrown out. When did I say and how are these percieved to be nasty tactics?

I don't mind debate, but you're literally trying to find outrage and offence with my posts when there is nothing there but my opinion.

Piss. Off.

Where is the evidence that she was 'surrounded by big strong rugby players'?

The inference here being there was force used. Evidence of that would be good too.
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15-04-2018, 20:13   #1519
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Ive a suspicion their claim of being "top shaggers" was made toungue in cheek, and as part of their childish and immature "bants". I seriously doubt anyone thinks they are in fact a top shagger, particulary when appraising anothers performance.
Even if they did mean it, what's wrong with that? There's nothing wrong with being or believing one's self to be a top shagger unless it isn't consensual, which a court had cleared these people of.
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15-04-2018, 20:18   #1520
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Is must be concerning for women when they read statements like the above.

Paddy has more understanding of his failings than some of his supporters on here.
What, specifically, did he do wrong? Be precise.
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15-04-2018, 20:19   #1521
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You're not 'correcting me' on anything though, you're saying my opinion is wrong and that I'm trying to put a slant on the case.

Absolutely not the case whatsoever. What is 'incorrect' about the facts I have presented?

Remember, me saying I believe both sides' perceptions is an opinion, not a fact.

Me saying the complainant was a credible witness is an opinion, not a fact.

You claimed I was showcasing 'nasty tactics' by the defence and used two examples of the defence challenging the judge and trying to get the case thrown out. When did I say and how are these percieved to be nasty tactics?

I don't mind debate, but you're literally trying to find outrage and offence with my posts when there is nothing there but my opinion.

Piss. Off.

Where is the evidence that she was 'surrounded by big strong rugby players'?

The inference here being there was force used. Evidence of that would be good too.
I haven't presented that as a fact. I used it as part my perception as to what she could have been thinking.

Nothing about my post implies force was used. Again you read that, got offended, and got the wrong idea.

I'll spell out what I meant because you're clearly the only person that doesn't ****ing get it.

In HER mind, Olding comes in, and she finds herself in a position she doesn't want to be in (surrounded by (in her mind) two big strong rugby players), she felt intimidated (through no fault of Olding or Jackson), 'froze', and then just let whatever happened, happen.

I made no implication that force was used. All of the above is not being displayed as fact. There was no evidence of force being used when Olding entered the room, so why would I imply that?

Again, YOU are assuming I'm saying something completely hidden in my messages when I'm ****ing not. I'm sorry if you're not intelligent enough to realise that, but I'm not implying anything you think I'm implying nor am I presenting any of the above as a fact.
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15-04-2018, 20:22   #1522
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Originally Posted by Foxtrol View Post
If he had a choice I would expect that his preference would be for everyone to respect the decision of the jury so he could stay and represent his country. However, given the circumstances he'll take the nice bag of money from the IRFU, add it to the nice bag of money he'll make in France, and likely add to it the nice bag of money he'll get from the BBC. Unfortunately a decent chunk of that will be going to cover his legal expenses but at least he will be away from the mob who would be following him around demanding his head if he stayed here.
Will he not win his claim for legal expenses?
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15-04-2018, 20:23   #1523
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What, specifically, did he do wrong? Be precise.
what he apologised for.
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15-04-2018, 20:25   #1524
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As ive previously stated, false accusations are not a total rarity. It is possible that accusations are made without considering the consequences to them or the accused.

See Quinton Hann the snooker player. And also see former footballer Dave Jones who was accused of abusing a youngster when he worked as a care worker and was put through hell for nothing

As for your anecdotes, women too can be bitches with regard to humiliating and gossip spreading about other women.
Doesn't Ireland's 5% rape conviction rate give us a big concern also?
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15-04-2018, 20:26   #1525
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I haven't presented that as a fact. I used it as part my perception as to what she could have been thinking.

Nothing about my post implies force was used. Again you read that, got offended, and got the wrong idea.

I'll spell out what I meant because you're clearly the only person that doesn't ****ing get it.

In HER mind, Olding comes in, and she finds herself in a position she doesn't want to be in (surrounded by (in her mind) two big strong rugby players), she felt intimidated (through no fault of Olding or Jackson), 'froze', and then just let whatever happened, happen.

I made no implication that force was used. All of the above is not being displayed as fact. There was no evidence of force being used when Olding entered the room, so why would I imply that?

Again, YOU are assuming I'm saying something completely hidden in my messages when I'm ****ing not. I'm sorry if you're not intelligent enough to realise that, but I'm not implying anything you think I'm implying nor am I presenting any of the above as a fact.
I think we get what you are doing, all right.
I think you think that your undermining of the case is subtle...it isn't. It is fairly blatant in your postings on this site.

There is literally no evidence to suggest she was there under duress or that she was frozen.

The actual evidence we have from the only independent witness to the events in the room was that what was happening was consensual and that it looked like all were enjoying what was happening.
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15-04-2018, 20:26   #1526
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Doesn't Ireland's 5% rape conviction rate give us a big concern also?
As does false accusations.
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15-04-2018, 20:28   #1527
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Will he not win his claim for legal expenses?
I would very much hope so given how the case should have never made it to court but I have no idea how that process works. If he does win then he'll be doing very well financially out of the situation, even if it wasn't his ideal outcome.
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15-04-2018, 20:28   #1528
 
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Will he not win his claim for legal expenses?
Even if he does, it's highly unlikely that he would get the full cost of the expensive team that he employed to defend him

Furthermore, given that the information that the IRFU has paid off his contract is in the public domain, I suspect that he'll find it hard to convince the beak that he can't afford to pay a significant portion of his costs.

(And it will be even harder if news that he has signed for a big French or English club breaks before the hearing.)
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15-04-2018, 20:30   #1529
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Even if he does, it's highly unlikely that he would get the full cost of the expensive team that he employed to defend him

Furthermore, given that the information that the IRFU has paid off his contract is in the public domain, I suspect that he'll find it hard to convince the beak that he can't afford to pay most of his costs.

(And it will be even harder if news that he has signed for a big French or English club breaks before the hearing.)
He has applied for 100,000 of his costs afaik.
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15-04-2018, 20:30   #1530
 
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You suggested that the young lady, who arrived home sobbing, got a good deal in that she got two men the two men only got one woman.

If you consider that empathy you need to go back to school. I thought that what you said was vile.
You know your winning an argument with a woman when they change the subject but continue to argue.
Go back and read the context of that to which you keep referring to, bearing in mind that which ive spelled out to you.

We're done. You're going around in circles with your fingers in your ears (thats figuratively speaking, not literal), offering nothing but "but..but...she was crying..."

Last edited by Roger Hassenforder; 15-04-2018 at 20:34.
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