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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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    #4832
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,126 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    How did the process differ to the many other processes that happen every year? As Guiliani is a lawyer, I would be pretty confident that had the actual rules not been followed then he would already by suing them.

    It always staggers me that people like Trump and Giuliani continually tell minorities that the systems are not bent against them, yet continually claim that the systems are bent out to get them!

    Which is it? Are the systems systematically bent against particular types of people or are they not?

    It is rich, old, white men that are the truly oppressed in america.


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    #4833
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    How did the process differ to the many other processes that happen every year? As Guiliani is a lawyer, I would be pretty confident that had the actual rules not been followed then he would already by suing them.

    It always staggers me that people like Trump and Giuliani continually tell minorities that the systems are not bent against them, yet continually claim that the systems are bent out to get them!

    Which is it? Are the systems systematically bent against particular types of people or are they not?

    I take it there is a process to be followed first in the suspension of his practicing law that needs to be followed first before any additional steps are taken by the wronged. I don't know if an Appellate Court can be sued... Do you?

    When did I comment of what is said by Trump or Giuliani to minorities? I guess you can give me examples and I can comment on them individually. Contrary to popular thought here I'm not every GOP politician's press secretary.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4834
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    if you are referring to the Borat scene where he's being tricked by a 24 year old actress pretending to be 15, the circumstances of the set-up appear consensual and the actress is old enough to have consensual sex.

    On a side note: The film, released less than a fortnight before the election, ends with an instruction for viewers to vote.

    "It is legal for Rudy to have sex with a 15 year" is about as good a defence as the "I kept my boxers on" Dersh defence.

    Listen - the only reason that film did not destroy Rudy is because he is already at rock bottom. Who can forget the Parnas and Fruman connection, all his cases getting bounced out of court, losing his law licence, "Four seasons landscaping", hair dye running during a press conference, farting in Court.

    He, like everyone around trump, ultimately collapses into the very worst version of themselves and becomes an object of utter ridicule.


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    #4835
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I take it there is a process to be followed first in the suspension of his practicing law that needs to be followed first before any additional steps are taken by the wronged. I don't know if an Appellate Court can be sued... Do you?

    When did I comment of what is said by Trump or Giuliani to minorities? I guess you can give me examples and I can comment on them individually. Contrary to popular thought here I'm not every GOP politician's press secretary.

    Agreed. You're more a "speech writer for the first lady of 45" kind of person.


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    #4836
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,479 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    You said it was a brilliant article and tht he wasn't even given due process. And you you say you don't even know what the process is?

    How can you honestly claim the process was flawed, and not only that but part of a grand conspiracy, without having an idea of what was done wrong.

    I never said you said they had claimed about minorities, it was a separate point in the post. That people like Trump, but not only Trump, are very quick to tell all and sundry that the system is not out to get them, that things are not systematically racist, sexist or whatever. Yet these are the very same people that are constantly claiming that said systems are actively targeting them. It just the off thinking that gets me. That they can both tell everyone else that they have no basis for their grievences, yet want everyone to see how awful everything is for them


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    #4837
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    if you are referring to the Borat scene where he's being tricked by a 24 year old actress pretending to be 15, the circumstances of the set-up appear consensual and the actress is old enough to have consensual sex.


    On a side note: The film, released less than a fortnight before the election, ends with an instruction for viewers to vote.

    Isn't it great, encouraging people to exercise their democratic right. :) Borat isn't what won it for Joe though.


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    #4838
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,126 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Isn't it great, encouraging people to exercise their democratic right. :) Borat isn't what won it for Joe though.

    To be fair that does tie in with GOP policy of having as few people vote as possible.


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    #4839
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    You said it was a brilliant article and tht he wasn't even given due process. And you you say you don't even know what the process is?

    How can you honestly claim the process was flawed, and not only that but part of a grand conspiracy, without having an idea of what was done wrong.

    I never said you said they had claimed about minorities, it was a separate point in the post. That people like Trump, but not only Trump, are very quick to tell all and sundry that the system is not out to get them, that things are not systematically racist, sexist or whatever. Yet these are the very same people that are constantly claiming that said systems are actively targeting them. It just the off thinking that gets me. That they can both tell everyone else that they have no basis for their grievences, yet want everyone to see how awful everything is for them

    What I commented on was he wasn't provided due process and the ability to defend himself against the charges. And that double standards seem to be rampant in the charge to get people associated with Trump. Where in the article did it state what the entire process of the suspension takes place and recourse? Did it need to? But what I read sure sounded great, clear, and informative, and concise.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4840
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,126 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    What I commented on was he wasn't provided due process and the ability to defend himself against the charges. And that double standards seem to be rampant in the charge to get people associated with Trump. Where in the article did it state what the entire process of the suspension takes place and recourse? Did it need to? But what I read sure sounded great, clear, and informative, and concise.

    how do you know he wasn't afforded due process if you don't know what the process is?


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    #4841
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    notobtuse wrote: »
    What I commented on was he wasn't provided due process and the ability to defend himself against the charges. And that double standards seem to be rampant in the charge to get people associated with Trump. Where in the article did it state what the entire process of the suspension takes place and recourse? Did it need to? But what I read sure sounded great, clear, and informative, and concise.

    I eagerly await his civil rights case. Everything goes back to an anti trump conspiracy with you even though there's a well established line of criminality associated with him


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    #4842
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    everlast75 wrote: »
    "It is legal for Rudy to have sex with a 15 year" is about as good a defence as the "I kept my boxers on" Dersh defence.

    Listen - the only reason that film did not destroy Rudy is because he is already at rock bottom. Who can forget the Parnas and Fruman connection, all his cases getting bounced out of court, losing his law licence, "Four seasons landscaping", hair dye running during a press conference, farting in Court.

    He, like everyone around trump, ultimately collapses into the very worst version of themselves and becomes an object of utter ridicule.
    Why do you find the need to lie? She was not posing as a 15 year old, she was posing as a TV journalist. It was Borat who then runs in the room and says: “She’s 15. She’s too old for you.”

    Rudy reported the encounter to the police, and the police found no crime had been committed.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4843
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,219 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    how do you know he wasn't afforded due process if you don't know what the process is?

    He might be right. I mean, what would the New York State Court and the Attorney Grievance Committee of the state's First Judicial Department know about doing things in full accordance of the law and all required processes much of which was likely done in private rather than announced publically, that someone on a forum in Ireland couldn't Google?


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    #4844
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    how do you know he wasn't afforded due process if you don't know what the process is?
    I said I didn't know what the entire process was in going through the suspension and possible disbarment, not that I didn't know what Due Process is. Why do you find some strange need to twist most everything I say?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #4845
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,126 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I said I didn't know what the entire process was in going through the suspension and possible disbarment, not that I didn't know what Due Process is. Why do you find some strange need to twist most everything I say?

    Due process just means that your legal rights have been respected. If you don't know what the process is how can you say that Rudys rights have not been respected?


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    #4846
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,130 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I said I didn't know what the entire process was in going through the suspension and possible disbarment, not that I didn't know what Due Process is. Why do you find some strange need to twist most everything I say?

    Because you parrot everything that's said by the like of Oan without any knowledge of the processes in which they're describing


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    #4847
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    To be fair that does tie in with GOP policy of having as few people vote as possible.


    it definitely does tie with the left using lies to manipulate the vote, as seen in the movie ;-)


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    #4848
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,233 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    it definitely does tie with the left using lies to manipulate the vote, as seen in the movie ;-)

    How was the vote manipulated?


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    #4849
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,983 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I said I didn't know what the entire process was in going through the suspension and possible disbarment, not that I didn't know what Due Process is. Why do you find some strange need to twist most everything I say?

    You post an article that you say is "great" and shows how Rudi was denied all kinds of rights etc. etc.

    You're not sure what those rights might be or how exactly he might have been denied them , but the article was "Great" none the less?

    So given that you've admitted to not really knowing if what anything Dershowitz said is even remotely accurate , what exactly made the article "Great" ?? The Prose?

    The suggestion that Guiliani trying to over-turn an election is "protected by the 1st amendment" is tenuous to say the least.

    It's a pretty clear example of the "Running into a crowded theatre and shouting FIRE!!!" scenario used to explain the limits of Free speech from where I'm sitting - And clearly from where the review board are sitting as well as they have taken the rare step of suspending him pending the hearing because they cannot trust him to not shout "FIRE!!!" again.


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    #4850
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Cody montana wrote: »
    How was the vote manipulated?

    Education. If it wasn't for all of those schools and colleges Trump would have been reelected.


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    #4851
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,866 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Education. If it wasn't for all of those schools and colleges Trump would have been reelected.

    Well in that regard Florida is trying to fix things. Setting in a law so that they will need survey's on political preferences among students and staff in a university (individuals are free to not answer) with an eye to stopping funding if they don't like the results from a university.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/desantis-signs-law-to-punish-student-indoctrination-at-florida-universities-2021-6?op=1&r=US&IR=T


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    #4852
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I said I didn't know what the entire process was in going through the suspension and possible disbarment, not that I didn't know what Due Process is. Why do you find some strange need to twist most everything I say?

    So when should we expect a civil rights case?


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    #4853
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Due process just means that your legal rights have been respected. If you don't know what the process is how can you say that Rudys rights have not been respected?

    The part to Due Process not afforded him was the Right to an unbiased tribunal or impartial jury because he was singled out for something thousands of lawyers do every year, and since he was not treated fairly by the court as a decision was made without him being able to defend himself he was denied due process.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4854
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,126 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The part to Due Process not afforded him was the Right to an unbiased tribunal or impartial jury because he was singled out for something thousands of lawyers do every year, and since he was not treated fairly by the court as a decision was made without him being able to defend himself he was denied due process.

    Ah so being held responsible for your actions is not being treated fairly? Other people did it so he should be allowed do it as well? Is that really your argument?

    And he appeared with lawyers representing him. Did they just sit there and say nothing? were they silenced by the court? the levels you will lower yourself to to support trump and his acolytes is very scary.


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    #4855
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,983 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    So far all that has happened is that Rudi has been essentially "refused bail" by the Review board as they believe there is a high probability of him re-offending.


    Anyone wondering why they think that should read the actual ruling where they have provided multiple examples and justifications for the steps taken.


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    #4856
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So when should we expect a civil rights case?

    Don't know. Have to see how the entire process plays out first.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4857
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    So far all that has happened is that Rudi has been essentially "refused bail" by the Review board as they believe there is a high probability of him re-offending.


    Anyone wondering why they think that should read the actual ruling where they have provided multiple examples and justifications for the steps taken.
    Does "refused bail" means his legal license has been suspended?

    From your link
    A little more than seven months later, a committee of five judges from the Appellate Division of the New York Supreme Court, First Judicial Department, has unanimously suspended Rudy Giuliani’s legal license pending a disciplinary hearing for false claims he made about election fraud as part of his representation of Trump.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4858
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Don't know. Have to see how the entire process plays out first.

    But you're gonna move onto something else when nothing happens of note... It's like people who predict conspiracies but are vague enough for them to claim it happens no matter what.


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    #4859
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,983 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The part to Due Process not afforded him was the Right to an unbiased tribunal or impartial jury because he was singled out for something thousands of lawyers do every year, and since he was not treated fairly by the court as a decision was made without him being able to defend himself he was denied due process.

    Thousands of Lawyers knowingly & repeatedly lie through their teeth on National Television for months every year in an effort to overthrow the constitutionally elected President??

    Somehow I don't think a lawyer going on local news and saying "My Client is innocent" when they know full well that they aren't, is really the same.


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    #4860
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,983 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Does "refused bail" means his legal license has been suspended?

    From your link

    Yes.. A perhaps not great analogy to regular court case proceedings rather than this particular scenario.

    Just as a potential repeat offender might be held in custody pending their hearing for fear that they might re-offend or abscond or tamper with witnesses/evidence etc. in this case the review board felt that given Rudi's repeated behaviors despite "promising to be good" they could not allow him to continue to practice law until such time as the full hearings are concluded and a final decision is made.

    Not really seeing the major controversy.

    I'm sure Rudi sought to have bail denied many times during his tenure as DA , what makes him special?


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    #4861
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,626 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Y'all Qaeda still flogging the dead horse.

    https://www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-supporter-warns-cnns-donie-osullivan-of-future-civil-war-if-trump-is-not-reinstated-this-summer-you-guys-are-going-down/

    You know, because they love the Constitution so god damn much that if we don't violate it for them they have threatened to kill us all. Good stuff.


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