Mother and babies homes information sealed for 30 years

political analyst · 17-10-2020 1:39pm #1

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1013/1171375-mother-baby-homes/

Minister for Children Roderic O'Gorman has responded to complaints about plans to seal the archive of the Mother and Baby Homes Commission (MBHC) for 30 years.

The Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters) Records Bill 2020 is set to be discussed in the Seanad this week with the MBHC due to publish the findings of its five-year investigation on 30 October.

The Justice for Magdalenes group and the Adoption Rights Alliance said in a statement the sealing of the archive "means no-one will be able to access their personal records [or information] about their disappeared relatives or babies who are buried in unmarked graves".

Minister O'Gorman continued: "The 2004 Act also requires that such records are sealed for a period of 30 years pending their transfer to the National Archives.

"This provision was already in place ahead of the establishment of the Commission.

Which side is right - the government or the campaign groups who oppose the 30-year rule?

Why was the 30-year-rule included in the Act of 2004? Couldn't the relevant information be released without infringing on witnesses' right to privacy?

Mules · 18-10-2020 9:54am

I'd imagine it's to protect the mothers privacy. It was the same with private adoptions. The women went on to marry and have kids and often never told their family about having another child. Imo if the law at the time guaranteed privacy, it's not fair on the mothers to change it retroactively.

Zebra3 · 18-10-2020 10:06am

I'd suspect it's to protect FFFG and the RC cult.

Don't let any more stories of all this out and about.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 18-10-2020 10:08am

I think it's a massive failure that its an issue now. If people had an issue about it 2004 was the time to campaign about it. In my opinion its too late now.

Eric Cartman · 18-10-2020 10:26am

I suspect its to wait until all the former residents are all dead, stopping keen solicitors from building compensation cases and stopping those children ever finding their mothers. A gigantic stain on our nations past but one that theres no political will to ever truly do right by the victims (mothers and children)

ILoveYourVibes · 18-10-2020 10:42am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

theres political will to truly do right by the victims (mothers and children)

:cool: Believe.

Gimme your vibes im making gumbo!

Senator Mary Higgins and Senator Lynne Ruane have put forward 20 amendments in a very tight space of time to stop the sealing in the bill.Ivana Bacik is trying her best too

All they can do is their best ...even if they are senators.

There is a light....

Acosta · 18-10-2020 10:43am

The Greens putting an end to any doubt that I'll ever vote for them again.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-10-2020 10:45am

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think it's a massive failure that its an issue now. If people had an issue about it 2004 was the time to campaign about it. In my opinion its too late now.

They did.

I'd imagine it's to protect the mothers privacy. It was the same with private adoptions. The women went on to marry and have kids and often never told their family about having another child. Imo if the law at the time guaranteed privacy, it's not fair on the mothers to change it retroactively.

The amendments won't affect that at all.

John Hutton · 18-10-2020 10:45am

The Catholic Church is not in favour of keeping these files secret either, only the government is.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-10-2020 10:48am

If you want good to happen you have to believe in the good in people and raise the vibes.

s1ippy · 18-10-2020 10:49am

Typical and horrible. I also don't see how the 30 year rule even applies because the whole business happened well over 30 years ago.

This is clearly an exercise in waiting until those involved are dead, so that no high profile scandals come out of it; pathetic to see that the church and state are still in cahoots to ensure that victims of the mass physical and sexual abuse, systematic oppression and outright people trafficking the Catholics are famous for remain suppressed and silenced to their graves. All to guard money and ill-gained reputations.

Imagine if it was revealed Muslims in Ireland are doing the things that happened in Tuam right now. There would be armageddon.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-10-2020 10:57am

I just looked online

Looks like the bill passed in its original form.

political analyst · 18-10-2020 1:57pm

Mules wrote: »

I'd imagine it's to protect the mothers privacy. It was the same with private adoptions. The women went on to marry and have kids and often never told their family about having another child. Imo if the law at the time guaranteed privacy, it's not fair on the mothers to change it retroactively.

Why do Justice for Magdalenes and the Adoption Rights Alliance not believe the government?

Mrs OBumble · 18-10-2020 2:11pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I suspect its to wait until all the former residents are all dead, stopping keen solicitors from building compensation cases and stopping those children ever finding their mothers.

Or their gutless fathers or the other useless family members who were responsible for their mothers being incarcerated.

Eric Cartman · 18-10-2020 3:45pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Or their gutless fathers or the other useless family members who were responsible for their mothers being incarcerated.

I think we do have to remember that at the time, going against the priest could make you a pariah in the community, it was wrong what happened but I dont think theres any point in condemning family members for not having the stones to oppose the church at the time.

steddyeddy · 18-10-2020 4:37pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Or their gutless fathers or the other useless family members who were responsible for their mothers being incarcerated.

I agree completely.

whisky_galore · 18-10-2020 5:19pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think we do have to remember that at the time, going against the priest could make you a pariah in the community, it was wrong what happened but I dont think theres any point in condemning family members for not having the stones to oppose the church at the time.

A brainwashed people, under the thumbs of old biddys, priests and bishops.

Gatling · 18-10-2020 5:20pm

Every single document Should be digitally scanned and made available on a secure website that would require a passcode to access related to each persons file and records ,
Not hidden away from view for another 3 decades ,
The victims have a god given right to all the information they require ,

Mrs OBumble · 18-10-2020 5:49pm

Gatling wrote: »

The victims have a god given right to all the information they require ,

Which particular god gave them this right?

I've heard enough stories of individual families refusing to let women be put into homes to not buy the "priest made me do it" line.

I suspect in many cases, it was simply about covering up incest. This would contribute to the death rate too.

salamiii · 18-10-2020 5:55pm

it's a cover up who are they protecting

all files should be open and searchable by all

the state is muzeling the victims still

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/07/europe/ireland-mother-and-baby-homes-intl/index.html

salamiii · 18-10-2020 6:02pm

sound proof the stairs underneath the stairs

http://www.soundservice.co.uk/soundproofing_of_stairs.html

Eric Cartman · 18-10-2020 6:23pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

A brainwashed people, under the thumbs of old biddys, priests and bishops.

it truly was a sad time in Irish history we'd do well to keep the memory alive of but never attempt to replicate again.

Gervais08 · 19-10-2020 10:02am

Gatling wrote: »

Every single document Should be digitally scanned and made available on a secure website that would require a passcode to access related to each persons file and records ,
Not hidden away from view for another 3 decades ,
The victims have a god given right to all the information they require ,

Yeah cos everything digitally secured is hack proof.

Graces7 · 22-10-2020 7:47am

The full report will be out on October 30th; in time for Hallowe'en

Oh and there is fresh debate re the sealing.

jmayo · 22-10-2020 1:52pm

Mules wrote: »

I'd imagine it's to protect the mothers privacy. It was the same with private adoptions. The women went on to marry and have kids and often never told their family about having another child. Imo if the law at the time guaranteed privacy, it's not fair on the mothers to change it retroactively.

Bullshyte.
They never gave two fooks about the mothers and I don't suddenly see them caring now.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I suspect its to wait until all the former residents are all dead, stopping keen solicitors from building compensation cases and stopping those children ever finding their mothers. A gigantic stain on our nations past but one that theres no political will to ever truly do right by the victims (mothers and children)

I agree, it looks like covering up any state involvement in certain cases.
The state turned a blind eye, it has already been shown about the industrial schools. where negative reports by the few decent people in the system were squashed to not rock the boat.
FFS they even used the Gradai to round up kids.

There is also probably still a few die hards religious types hanging around who will continue to do their best to protect the church.

After all two FF ministers protected the churches exposure to compensation payments and made the tax payers cover the costs.

Zebra3 · 22-10-2020 4:40pm

jmayo wrote: »

After all two FF ministers protected the churches exposure to compensation payments and made the tax payers cover the costs.

And nobody who protected paedophiles in the RC church has ever been prosecuted. These scumbags moved these even worse scumbags around so they could rape different kids.

Many of these lowlifes are still alive.

We always hear FFFG tell us that they are tough on crime yet like DOB these people seem to be unaccountable to the law.

Acosta · 22-10-2020 5:01pm

Is there even a FF or FG TD in the house to listen to this? Never mind support any of the amendments being proposed.

Shameless ****ers the lot of them. Them and their predecessors that let off this happen and did nothing.

Nice to hear Terry Prone get a mention. Whose still wheeled out on every current affairs show on tv and radio like nothing ever happened.

440Hertz · 22-10-2020 5:03pm

This is the second time the Greens have supported extremely socially regressive stuff. Last time that made me feel absolutely let down was when they supported the blasphemy legislation. I contacted them at the time and got wishy-washy, deflecting nonsense.

They seem to basically be a Conservative party, albeit one with green credentials.

Acosta · 22-10-2020 5:04pm

Catherine Connolly is a brilliant TD

thomas 123 · 22-10-2020 7:31pm

Acosta wrote: »

Catherine Connolly is a brilliant TD

It helps being a barrister and not a school teacher I’d say. A fantastic and learned speaker. Her point about the missing documents that T’D’s are not getting is scandalous - the media appear to be super quite on this also.

Richard B-B’s point about the whips being brought out for this is equally as important, absolute disgrace and a cover job as the rest have said.

listermint · 22-10-2020 8:16pm

Had not seen another thread on this , but from reading the voting pattern today it appears as if the 3 parties in government may have scored a massive own goal in this one.

This doesn't sit well with the public at all.

https://www.thejournal.ie/roderic-ogorman-amendments-5241697-Oct2020/
THE DÁIL HAS passed the Government’s Mother and Baby Homes Bill.

The Bill was passed with 78 voting for it and 67 voting against.

Mother and babies homes information sealed for 30 years

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