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Hagia Sophia Istanbul turned back into a Mosque

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  • 10-07-2020 5:37pm
    #1
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,030 ✭✭✭✭


    The Turkish courts have allowed the government to turn Hagia Sophia back into a mosque. It overturned a previous 1934 government decision to turn the amazing building into a museum to be equally shared between Moslems and Christians.

    For it to be a functioning mosque, some of the ancient Christian wall paintings will have to be removed or painted over again.

    When will this madness end?


«1

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    #2
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,410 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    smurfjed wrote: »
    The Turkish courts have allowed the government to turn Hagia Sophia back into a mosque. It overturned a previous 1934 government decision to turn the amazing building into a museum to be equally shared between Moslems and Christians.

    For it to be a functioning mosque, some of the ancient Christian wall paintings will have to be removed or painted over again.

    When will this madness end?

    Have you got a link to paintings and artwork potentially being destroyed? I can't seem to find anything about it online.


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    #3
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,030 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    It’s an opinion based on the fact that they have spent years painstakingly removing layers of paint that were hiding Christian paintings when it previously was used as a Mosque. So at least to me, it stands to reason that they shall remove them again.


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    #4
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    o1s1n wrote: »
    Have you got a link to paintings and artwork potentially being destroyed? I can't seem to find anything about it online.
    I think these could be the ones referred to
    https://istanbulclues.com/hagia-sophia-mosaics/
    https://www.newsweek.com/2015/06/12/battle-over-hagia-sophia-338091.html


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    #5
    Chris_Heilong
    Registered Users Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    Will they also remove the ladder that has been there for hundreds of years and no one was to touch? I dont think it is a step in the right direction but Muslim majority country will always do things that in the end favor themselves.


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    #6
    McDermotX
    Registered Users Posts: 14,648 ✭✭✭✭McDermotX


    Funny coincidence

    Was only looking at an ep of that God program Morgan Freeman presents last night and there was a section where one of his lackeys visits the Hagia Sophia.
    Beautiful building, rich history and frankly, found its place as a unique museum.

    Gonna end in trouble if there are any alterations, and there will always be some lobby looking to reclaim at the expense of others despite public claims of leaving it an open, visitor friendly place of worship. Political motivation from Erdogan, nothing more than that.


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    #7
    a very cool kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭a very cool kid


    Chris_Heilong wrote: »
    Will they also remove the ladder that has been there for hundreds of years and no one was to touch? I dont think it is a step in the right direction but Muslim majority country will always do things that in the end favor themselves.

    That's in Jerusalem I think.


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    #8
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    a very cool kid wrote: »
    That's in Jerusalem I think.


    It is .in the church of the Holy Scepulchre.do you know why it can't be moved? Its the result of an agreement called 'The Status Quo'.

    The care over the church is shared by no less than six denominations. The primary custodians are the Greek Orthodox, Armenian Apostolic and Roman Catholic Church, with lesser duties shared by Coptic, Ethiopian and Syriac Orthodox churches.

    They all cannot agree as to who owns it.

    Because they have to get 5 christian groups to agree for it to be moved ...its a symbol of christian division.

    Also certain people try grabbing it in the name of one group sometimes ...



    They keep having fights about it ..some of them get violent..






    Its like MONTY PYTHON! :pac:


  • Options
    #9
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    It's a pretty disappointing decision. I was inside when I went to Istanbul last spring. It's probably one of the more impressive places in the city precisely because you can see both the Christian and the Islamic influences in the museum.

    When it is converted back into a mosque they will have to remove the Christian materials from there. Having nosed into the other mosques in the city such as the Suleymaniye Mosque and the Blue Mosque the Haggia Sophia is much more interesting purely because they have no inscriptions in the mosques apart from the Arabic word for Allah everywhere and abstract shapes. Pictures and depictions are not permissible in Islam, this is why they will be painted over.

    I think its probably yet another move by Erdogan to undermine the secular nature of the Turkish state.


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    #10
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Make Istanbul Constantinople again.


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    #11
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    Oh boo hoo one less tourist attraction, how will society cope


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    #12
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I have visited Istanbul in the past, and tbh I'd visit it again even if this changed.
    The Grand Bazaar is amazing.
    I just hope they only cover the Christian relics and don't destroy them.


    If you go, try the Turkish pizza Lahmacun
    Don't get the kebab, it is very different from our version.


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    #13
    Brian Hartman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 78 ✭✭Brian Hartman


    biko wrote: »
    Make Istanbul Constantinople again.

    Deus Vult!


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    #14
    Brian Hartman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 78 ✭✭Brian Hartman


    biko wrote: »
    I have visited Istanbul in the past, and tbh I'd visit it again even if this changed.
    The Grand Bazaar is amazing.
    I just hope they only cover the Christian relics and don't destroy them.


    If you go, try the Turkish pizza Lahmacun
    Don't get the kebab, it is very different from our version.

    Yes it is an amazing city. But sad to see Turkey succumb to Islamists.


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    #15
    nofiller69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭nofiller69


    Brian Hartman wrote: »
    Yes it is an amazing city. But sad to see Turkey succumb to Islamists.

    That happened in 1453 after the Eastern Roman Empire was betrayed by mainland Europeans. Turkey has been Muslim since.


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    #16
    Brian Hartman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 78 ✭✭Brian Hartman


    nofiller69 wrote: »
    That happened in 1453 after the Eastern Roman Empire was betrayed by mainland Europeans. Turkey has been Muslim since.

    It has been a secular country since the end of WWI


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    #17
    nofiller69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭nofiller69


    Brian Hartman wrote: »
    It has been a secular country since the end of WWI

    Meh secularism on paper has more to do with human rights and preventing discrimination through legislation and courts.

    The reality is 98-99% of Turks are muslim.


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    #18
    Brian Hartman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 78 ✭✭Brian Hartman


    nofiller69 wrote: »
    Meh secularism on paper has more to do with human rights and preventing discrimination through legislation and courts.

    The reality is 98-99% of Turks are muslim.

    You need to read about Ataturk and the reforms he brought in.


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    #19
    nofiller69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭nofiller69


    Brian Hartman wrote: »
    You need to read about Ataturk and the reforms he brought in.

    You need to come back to reality.

    99% Muslim since the 1500s.


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    #20
    Brian Hartman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 78 ✭✭Brian Hartman


    nofiller69 wrote: »
    You need to come back to reality.

    99% Muslim since the 1500s.

    You need to read a book and understand how the ruins of the Ottoman Empire become the Turkish republic.


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    #21
    nofiller69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭nofiller69


    Brian Hartman wrote: »
    You need to read a book and understand how the ruins of the Ottoman Empire become the Turkish republic.

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    98-99% of Turks are registered as muslim in 2020.

    None of that Ataturk, Turkish republic reform crap actually means anything in reality.

    Secularisation of Turkey is about centralizing government, removing state/church duopoly and giving removing legislated bias against other religions.

    Come back to reality mate.


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    #22
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Do walk across the bridge to the eastern side, it's not as touristy (yes, I understand the irony in guiding tourists to un-touristy areas).

    When my female friends walked alone they noticed the locals can be very "forward".


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    #23
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Brian Hartman wrote: »
    Deus Vult!

    Fairly bad taste on the 25th anniversary of Srebenica


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    #24
    Mr. Karate
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    Chris_Heilong wrote: »
    Will they also remove the ladder that has been there for hundreds of years and no one was to touch? I dont think it is a step in the right direction but Muslim majority country will always do things that in the end favor themselves.

    Muslims are all about Minority rights when they're the minority. Not so much when they're the majority.


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    #25
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    They should be able to board up the pictures rather than paint over them, whether they will or not is another question


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    #26
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    biko wrote: »
    Do walk across the bride to the eastern side, it's not as touristy (yes, I understand the irony in guiding tourists to un-touristy areas).

    When my female friends walked alone they noticed the locals can be very "forward".

    They're very brave to even walk alone in that area B.


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    #27
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Just like the Kaaba, the Hagia Sofia belonged to another religion but is now used by Islam.

    No church is safe - a Christian association called Friends of the Protestant Church in Berlin published a report on the conversion of ten churches in Germany into mosques 2019. It said the phenomenon was not new but it was repeated and deliberate. SRC


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    #28
    Brian Hartman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 78 ✭✭Brian Hartman


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    They're very brave to even walk alone in that area B.

    The same can be said about Malmo, Paris, Oslo, Cologne and many other 'diverse' places in Europe.


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    #29
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,126 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    biko wrote: »
    Just like the Kaaba, the Hagia Sofia belonged to another religion but is now used by Islam.

    No church is safe - a Christian association called Friends of the Protestant Church in Berlin published a report on the conversion of ten churches in Germany into mosques 2019. It said the phenomenon was not new but it was repeated and deliberate. SRC

    perhaps those friends of the protestant church should have bought the churches for themselves if they are so worried? though presumably they were actually ex-churches at the time they were bought so just buildings that no longer had any religious significance.


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    #30
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Build a wall

    ;)


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    #31
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    biko wrote: »
    Just like the Kaaba, the Hagia Sofia belonged to another religion but is now used by Islam.

    No church is safe - a Christian association called Friends of the Protestant Church in Berlin published a report on the conversion of ten churches in Germany into mosques 2019. It said the phenomenon was not new but it was repeated and deliberate. SRC
    At the end of 2018, the Nur Mosque was inaugurated in Hamburg after a Muslim investor bought a church and donated it to the Islamic centre of the city. Similar actions were carried out in the Netherlands, Britain and France. The most prominent examples of the actions were the openings of Al Fateh Mosque in Amsterdam, the Sultan Ayoub Mosque and the Osman Ghazi Mosque in the Netherlands. In France, the Dominican Church in Lille and the Saint Joseph Church in Paris have been turned into mosques.

    Maybe the ones that don't put themselves up for sale will be safe :rolleyes:

    edit: ohnonotgmail got there first


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