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Which conspiracy theories are real and which are not?

245

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Why would the US government take down two huge buildings in NY as an excuse the invade. Would they not just use a small device which would have the same affect anywhere in the US...makes no sense.

    Three actually, but that a topic for threads titled 9/11.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Gulf of tonkin


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    USS Maine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    First gulf war also had false flag narratives. The US held a meeting and was claimed Iraqi soldiers killed babies in the incubators at hospitals. The first George Bush used this to gather American support for the first gulf war.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    WMD In Iraq.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,701 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    First gulf war also had false flag narratives. The US held a meeting and was claimed Iraqi soldiers killed babies in the incubators at hospitals. The first George Bush used this to gather American support for the first gulf war.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

    Indeed but not a false flag. The above was related to disinformation from Kuwaiti sources. The media picked up on it and reported it, it was later found to be false.

    The US (and allies) conducted the war based on the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait

    It's worth noting that you use Wiki here as a source, however you discard it when it contradicts your personal conspiracy theories. Interesting double standard.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭The Late Late Show


    It is a thread about what conspiracies are real. And the op gave his opinion i gave mine about 9/11.

    9/11 is a big topic, itnot just about hulsey study about WTC7. There a background to why it happened and who likely was behind the attacks. It certainly wasn't Iraq.

    9/11 is one of the big game changer events in recent history and we are still feeling its negative influence today. Out of it came a lot of CTs among them who did it and why. I find it hard to believe that the Americans directly did it but I also find it hard to believe something this big could be planned without anyone knowing. When you think of individuals like John Bolton, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney being in government, anything is possible: Handmaid's Tale style terrorist attack done by themselves and then used as excuse for war? Or a blind eye turned to the ISIS/Al Qaeda organisation of it? My guess is deeper Saudi involvement in it than the Americans cared to admit and perhaps eyes turned off the Saudis by all because Bolton, Rumsfeld, etc. idolise the Saudis. Whatever way, we know a lot of people who were involved in 9/11 who were never brought to justice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Indeed but not a false flag. The above was related to disinformation from Kuwaiti sources. The media picked up on it and reported it, it was later found to be false.

    The US (and allies) conducted the war based on the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait

    It's worth noting that you use Wiki here as a source, however you discard it when it contradicts your personal conspiracy theories. Interesting double standard.

    Disinformation used by George Bush Snr frequently to convince the American public the war had to happen. The American public was not convinced they should intervene. US started claiming the Iraqi soldiers were baby killers and support for the war increased.

    Yes, i sometimes use wikileaks to locate official information about an incident or event in history, so what?

    False again. You wrong in saying Iraq Invasion of Kuwait was enough.

    Info taken from the link The testimony was widely publicized, and was cited numerous times by United States senators and President George H. W. Bush in their rationale to back Kuwait in the Gulf War.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    9/11 is one of the big game changer events in recent history and we are still feeling its negative influence today. Out of it came a lot of CTs among them who did it and why. I find it hard to believe that the Americans directly did it but I also find it hard to believe something this big could be planned without anyone knowing. When you think of individuals like John Bolton, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney being in government, anything is possible: Handmaid's Tale style terrorist attack done by themselves and then used as excuse for war? Or a blind eye turned to the ISIS/Al Qaeda organisation of it? My guess is deeper Saudi involvement in it than the Americans cared to admit and perhaps eyes turned off the Saudis by all because Bolton, Rumsfeld, etc. idolise the Saudis. Whatever way, we know a lot of people who were involved in 9/11 who were never brought to justice.

    I don't believe the official narrative for many reasons. FBI agents involved in the Pentbom 9/11 investigation have claimed the 28 pages of the 9/11 commission report is fake news. During their limited short investigation they had found substantial evidence Saudi agents and government officials directly supported the 9/11 hijackers operation to target the US. One FBI agent Mark Rossini who was involved said he was given a directive from his superiors to stop the investigation. Statements from people who were involved in finding out who did this, convinces me there was a conspiracy and obstruction of justice ongioing after 9/11.

    I don't blame America for 9/11. I do believe a rogue establishement outfit was involved in helping and faciliting the event. Not every general and politician was involved.

    Tenet clearly involved and faciliting the attacks to happen. CIA kept information about top Al Qeada members to themselves. You not going to convince me they could not find them when then were using the real names to rent cars,stay at hotels, and rent apartments, and they used credit cards in stores to buy goods. CIA even had pictures of some of the hijackers in 1999. The were also known to have entered the country in 2000 and CIA had known this. The official narrative does make whole lot of sense when intelligence agencies in Western Europe were warning Al Qaeda members were planning on hitting US targets inside the United States. Are you telling me the CIA thought Nawaf Al-Hazmi and Khalid Al-Mihdhar are on holiday?

    At very least they wanted the attacks to go ahead and CIA did everything to make sure it happened as scheduled.

    Donald Rumsfield went missing on 9/11 for 40 minutes. He claimed he was in a meeting recieving a briefing. And this was after the second plane hit the second tower. For defence secretary of US to decide a briefing more important then saving American lives, is very revealing. He also denied knowing what building 7 was, on video by the way and yet his last job was chairperson for a company occupied multiple floors inside WTC7


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,701 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    False again. You wrong in saying Iraq Invasion of Kuwait was enough.

    Nope.

    The invasion of Kuwait is the reason the US and allies went to war with Iraq, to liberate Kuwait

    Here's Wikipedia since you now seem to selectively trust sources
    The Gulf War (2 August 1990 – 28 February 1991), codenamed Operation Desert Shield (2 August 1990 – 17 January 1991) for operations leading to the buildup of troops and defense of Saudi Arabia and Operation Desert Storm (17 January 1991 – 28 February 1991) in its combat phase, was a war waged by coalition forces from 35 nations led by the United States against Iraq in response to Iraq's invasion and annexation of Kuwait arising from oil pricing and production disputes.

    It wasn't like that wasn't happening and all of a sudden this incubator story came out and they changed their minds

    Also it was Kuwaiti propaganda to encourage public opinion, not a US "false flag"


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,701 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I don't blame America for 9/11. I do believe a rogue establishement outfit was involved in helping and faciliting the event. Not every general and politician was involved.

    You believe that:

    Larry Silverstein (the leaseholder on the WTC buildings), his insurers, Saudi princes, CIA Mujahideen, Bush, Rove, Cheney, military, businessmen, NIST investigators, NORAD, Pakistani ISI, Joe Biden and 8 "men" all conspired together pull off 911 as an inside job

    Or has that changed again?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Nope.

    The invasion of Kuwait is the reason the US and allies went to war with Iraq, to liberate Kuwait

    Here's Wikipedia since you now seem to selectively trust sources



    It wasn't like that wasn't happening and all of a sudden this incubator story came out and they changed their minds

    Also it was Kuwaiti propaganda to encourage public opinion, not a US "false flag"

    They used Kuwaiti US ambassador daughter to convince the the American public Iraqi soldiers were killing babies during the occupation way before any war started. She did not reveal who she was, she was coached to lie and US politicians used her testimony to gain support for this war. Are you telling me nobody in the US establishment knew who she was?

    This was a clear false flag narrative. You prefer disinformation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    You believe that:

    Larry Silverstein (the leaseholder on the WTC buildings), his insurers, Saudi princes, CIA Mujahideen, Bush, Rove, Cheney, military, businessmen, NIST investigators, NORAD, Pakistani ISI, Joe Biden and 8 "men" all conspired together pull off 911 as an inside job

    Or has that changed again?


    You can ignore that General Hamza wired 100,000 dollars to Atta weeks before 9/11. This is a clear and direct link to a general who had ties with the Pakistan army and ISI. Days before 9/11 General Hamza met Dick Cheney, officials at the Pentagon and National Security Council" as well as meetings with CIA Director Tenet. This man was never asked about this and he has escaped justice.

    I believe the FBI agents involved in the 9/11 investigation, know more about this then i and you do. They have come out and said their Saudi 9/11 terrorist investigation was shut down on the orders of their superiors. If there nothing to hide why would their superiors order them to stop looking into this? Bush and cronies focused on Iraq and other countries instead is telling.

    CIA funding Sunni lead Islamic groups is established history. The CIA just likes to pretend they stopped helping them when the Soviets left Afganistan


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,701 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    They used Kuwaiti US ambassador daughter to convince the the American public Iraqi soldiers were killing babies during the occupation way before any war started. She did not reveal who she was, she was coached to lie and US politicians used her testimony to gain support for this war. Are you telling me nobody in the US establishment knew who she was?

    This was a clear false flag narrative. You prefer disinformation.

    A false flag is generally an incident designed to trigger a war - the war was already triggered. It was propaganda/disinformation from the Kuwaitis


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    A false flag is generally an incident designed to trigger a war - the war was already triggered. It was propaganda/disinformation from the Kuwaitis

    Defintion of false flag
    A false flag is a covert operation designed to deceive; the deception creates the appearance of a particular party, group, or nation being responsible for some activity, disguising the actual source of responsibility.

    Kuwait US ambassdor daughter pretended she witnessed a event that never occurred.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,701 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You can ignore that General Hamza wired 100,000 dollars to Atta weeks before 9/11. This is a clear and direct link to a general who had ties with the Pakistan army and ISI. Days before 9/11 General Hamza met Dick Cheney, officials at the Pentagon and National Security Council" as well as meetings with CIA Director Tenet. This man was never asked about this and he has escaped justice.

    I believe the FBI agents involved in the 9/11 investigation, know more about this then i and you do. They have come out and said their Saudi 9/11 terrorist investigation was shut down on the orders of their superiors. If there nothing to hide why would their superiors order them to stop looking into this? Bush and cronies focused on Iraq and other countries instead is telling.

    CIA funding Sunni lead Islamic groups is established history. The CIA just likes to pretend they stopped helping them when the Soviets left Afganistan

    There is the 911 debate forum for the above stuff

    I'm just putting forward the list of people you believe were involved in a conspiracy theory that is completely unique to you and invented by you

    To stay on topic, to decide whether a conspiracy is true or not - there is no debate when the conspiracy theory itself is entirely unique to one person. You are the only person who believes in your custom-made sequence of events

    And that in itself is related more to psychology than any grounding in reality


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    There is the 911 debate forum for the above stuff

    I'm just putting forward the list of people you believe were involved in a conspiracy theory that is completely unique to you and invented by you

    To stay on topic, to decide whether a conspiracy is true or not - there is no debate when the conspiracy theory itself is entirely unique to one person. You are the only person who believes in your custom-made sequence of events

    And that in itself is related more to psychology than any grounding in reality

    Rubbish. I listen to what said by those people involved in the 9/11 investigation and public information now undisputable fact- General Hamza wired 100,000 dollars to Mohammed Atta weeks before 9/11. If all just an Al Qeada operation why did this general wire money to the alleged ringleader of the 9/11 attacks? You don't seem to be all that interested in knowing and finding out. You prefer to believe it was 19 random muslims guys and Bin Laden behind it, even though the evidence is overwhelming there were many others involved including state actors and official and government agents belonging to intelligence agencies in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Bin laden living in a wall compound in Pakistan near a military acedemy of ISI does not ring alarm bells for you too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,116 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    No more 9/11 posts in this thread. Cards to follow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,701 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Edit: staying on topic

    Many conspiracy theories are more related to human psychology than reality. A good few psychology articles on this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,401 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Edit: staying on topic

    Many conspiracy theories are more related to human psychology than reality. A good few psychology articles on this.

    Narcissists, paranoid people etc much much more like to believe in them.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,144 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Overheal wrote: »
    No more 9/11 posts in this thread. Cards to follow.

    Why ? It the biggest conspiracy theory ever !


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,116 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    cjmc wrote: »
    Why ? It the biggest conspiracy theory ever !

    Because we have an entire sub forum dedicated for it...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    cjmc wrote: »
    Why ? It the biggest conspiracy theory ever !

    I disagree UFO phenomenon is a bigger story. Are we alone outweighs 9/11.

    There is sub thread for 9/11 if you want to discuss the subject.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭The Late Late Show


    UFO phenomenon

    UFOs have been the source of both conspiracy theories and speculative science fiction for years. In and of themselves, UFO's are just that: unidentified flying objects. And of course, they are real. Many objects fly in the sky and not all can be easily identified as a plane, helicopter, bird or bat for example. Satellites and weather balloons often explain UFOs. Sometimes, the reflection of the sun can play tricks and a high flying bird can appear as something different.

    The main CTs with UFOs is they are aliens or they are secret weapons systems being tested. Or that they are technology to spy on people. With the advent of drones and the like, UFOs are going to be more common.

    As regards aliens, I do believe in them. The sheer numbers of stars out there implies life forms other than here must exist on planets like here. But as regards aliens coming here on space ships, there is no evidence whatsoever. Why would they fly around in the sky and then disappear? And how come some claim to have been taken by aliens in a ship and they spoke perfect English. How would aliens know a language of a world they were not from? That would be like expecting Christopher Columbus to be fluent in Aztec or Mayan.

    Most CTs are baseless far fetched yarns. Some celebrities like Sinead O'Connor and Jim Corr thrive on spreading them and it keeps them in the news. Write a book about Area 51, the moon landings, UFOs, JFK's murder and Elvis being alive and you are onto a big seller. The market for CTs is massive and often easier to peddle than fact.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,701 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Defintion of false flag
    A false flag is a covert operation designed to deceive; the deception creates the appearance of a particular party, group, or nation being responsible for some activity, disguising the actual source of responsibility.

    Kuwait US ambassdor daughter pretended she witnessed a event that never occurred.

    The conspiracy is the Kuwaitis created false info to influence public opinion (the war was already happening regardless), this type of disinfo/propaganda happens in most conflicts

    In any debates in conspiracy circles this issue is played out like it was the crux to the war beginning. That the Americans and Kuwaitis and Rothschilds (etc, etc) all conspired to produce this false info on which the decision to go to war balanced. Often to back some absurd conspiracy theory by using the appeal to history fallacy ("it happened before, that means it's happening now in a completely unrelated event")


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    UFOs have been the source of both conspiracy theories and speculative science fiction for years. In and of themselves, UFO's are just that: unidentified flying objects. And of course, they are real. Many objects fly in the sky and not all can be easily identified as a plane, helicopter, bird or bat for example. Satellites and weather balloons often explain UFOs. Sometimes, the reflection of the sun can play tricks and a high flying bird can appear as something different.

    The main CTs with UFOs is they are aliens or they are secret weapons systems being tested. Or that they are technology to spy on people. With the advent of drones and the like, UFOs are going to be more common.

    As regards aliens, I do believe in them. The sheer numbers of stars out there implies life forms other than here must exist on planets like here. But as regards aliens coming here on space ships, there is no evidence whatsoever. Why would they fly around in the sky and then disappear? And how come some claim to have been taken by aliens in a ship and they spoke perfect English. How would aliens know a language of a world they were not from? That would be like expecting Christopher Columbus to be fluent in Aztec or Mayan.

    Most CTs are baseless far fetched yarns. Some celebrities like Sinead O'Connor and Jim Corr thrive on spreading them and it keeps them in the news. Write a book about Area 51, the moon landings, UFOs, JFK's murder and Elvis being alive and you are onto a big seller. The market for CTs is massive and often easier to peddle than fact.

    In fact UFOs are widely reported since 1945, it not a new phenomenon that just appeared recently. Sightings have occurred across the world, so its obvious there something there. I just note there secret documentation online and you will see high level generals discussing the topic frankly and openly. They did not think it was imaginary or fantasy. There plenty of good cases where dozens and hundreds of people saw hard solid objects in the sky flying around near nuclear sites, nato bases, cities and town and villages during the 60s and 80s.

    Most UFO sightings are identifiable. Project blue book was a major US airforce investigation to debunk UFO sightings and after 12,000 cases were looked at, there, they were left with 700 individual sightings they could not explain .

    You personally want to see alien spacecrat and its pilots, correct?

    Claiming there no evidence in my view is wrong. Just an example Col Halt, was a deputy commander of a Nato base in the UK during the early 80s) and he recorded their sighting on tape in the 80s (real time) and just listening to the tape you will experience their reaction, mood and the drama unfolding in front of them and you can hear what they saw on tape. I posted this real tape recording on this site somewhere take a listen to it, you find it on youtube also. There many events like this to be just imaginary.

    Regards to why would aliens speak English. UFO phenomenon origins are speculated about for years. There many theories the pilots are us from the future, they live in parallel world just like our own and visit us. They are interdimensional beings who have been here longer then we have. There also speculation they are species of human who split off to form their own small colony on earth and are hiding out amongst us ( this is division based on flood bible lore) Keep in mind this just speculation and nobody knows.

    There also a theory some of the pilots are human biological hybrids. Today science shows it not impractical or nonsense. Long list of UFO stories of beings taking DNA samples from people and not saying this is true and actually happening, just outlining the claims made by alleged UFO abductees.

    Now the worldest best fighter pilots are seeing advanced ships in the sky and reporting back, so there no denying there craft there of an unknown origin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,401 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    There have been UFO sightings for thousands of years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    The conspiracy is the Kuwaitis created false info to influence public opinion (the war was already happening regardless), this type of disinfo/propaganda happens in most conflicts

    In any debates in conspiracy circles this issue is played out like it was the crux to the war beginning. That the Americans and Kuwaitis and Rothschilds (etc, etc) all conspired to produce this false info on which the decision to go to war balanced. Often to back some absurd conspiracy theory by using the appeal to history fallacy ("it happened before, that means it's happening now in a completely unrelated event")

    Claiming a war would have happened regardless ignores the US public was not interested in a new war. Media and officials ran this story and then the US public supported the war. Iraq soldiers were baby killers was enough to gain support. Stop blaming conspiracy theorists, for highlighting propaganda by the US and its alles please.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    I disagree UFO phenomenon is a bigger story. Are we alone outweighs 9/11.

    There is sub thread for 9/11 if you want to discuss the subject.

    There is a chance we are not alone and they have not made it as far as us.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,701 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Ipso wrote: »
    There is a chance we are not alone and they have not made it as far as us.

    This thought scares some people too much


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