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12-07-2019, 14:32   #106
markodaly
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I have to second the issue of using labels in order to detract from the topic at hand.

For example, we are discouraged to use the word shinnerbot. Yet the word, partitionist is used with impunity and used in a deliberately inflammatory manner. It is not even the use of a label per say, it is used as a weapon to mostly wind other people up and paint them into a corner, time and time again.

I have raised this with the mods, and have been asked to post here for feedback.
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12-07-2019, 15:35   #107
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So far the forum looks to be working.
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12-07-2019, 16:36   #108
 
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So far the forum looks to be working.

Yes, it really has given racism a place to flourish.
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13-07-2019, 08:50   #109
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The reregs last far far too long before they get banned.

Everybody know they are one, including mods and admin I'm sure, but whatever boxes need to be ticked to confirm it allow them to spew the same bile for weeks, months, before they finally get banned.
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13-07-2019, 08:51   #110
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Yes, it really has given racism a place to flourish.
I think that's a quite unfair and oversimplistic assessment.

In one feedback thread, mods are being accused of making judgements more on their feeling or emotions than in the fairness of discussion and deciding what discussions are worth having at all, in another, they are being accused of not getting involved and letting racism 'flourish'? No-win situation it seems.

Racism is not being allowed to 'flourish' in CA, but in many cases, sunlight is the best disinfectant - posters are more than capable of calling out opinions they deem questionable, and we allow for both sides of that discussion. Yes, a reasonable percentage of our posters on both sides of the aisle have, from time to time, wandered into territory that could be considered questionable. Were we to insta-ban for such the place would certainly be calmer, if nothing else. We don't, and many posters pull their heads back in on sight of a mod warning, or being called out by the majority. Others who continue to push into genuine hate speech however, are steadily working their way up through the infraction process and out of the forum.

Yes, that means it will take a little while for the forum to find its balance, and there will always be a few persistent trolls and rereg accounts, but it's still the fairest approach. As for those who advocate for instant bannings for speech with which they disagree? I'd say most of such should be happy we don't. Based on reports we get every day most posters in CA would be banned within a week under such a regime.
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13-07-2019, 09:26   #111
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Originally Posted by markodaly View Post
I have to second the issue of using labels in order to detract from the topic at hand.

For example, we are discouraged to use the word shinnerbot. Yet the word, partitionist is used with impunity and used in a deliberately inflammatory manner. It is not even the use of a label per say, it is used as a weapon to mostly wind other people up and paint them into a corner, time and time again.

I have raised this with the mods, and have been asked to post here for feedback.
Lol.
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13-07-2019, 09:51   #112
 
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I think that's a quite unfair and oversimplistic assessment.

I think it's right on the money.


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In one feedback thread, mods are being accused of making judgements more on their feeling or emotions than in the fairness of discussion and deciding what discussions are worth having at all, in another, they are being accused of not getting involved and letting racism 'flourish'? No-win situation it seems.

It is. That's why you, and by that I mean Boards.ie in general, have to take a position. It sounds like you are allowing certain content to appear impartial or to appeal to as many people as possible. A good discussion isn't simply one that has two sides, there has to be quality and genuineness to it too.



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Racism is not being allowed to 'flourish' in CA, but in many cases, sunlight is the best disinfectant - posters are more than capable of calling out opinions they deem questionable, and we allow for both sides of that discussion. Yes, a reasonable percentage of our posters on both sides of the aisle have, from time to time, wandered into territory that could be considered questionable. Were we to insta-ban for such the place would certainly be calmer, if nothing else. We don't, and many posters pull their heads back in on sight of a mod warning, or being called out by the majority. Others who continue to push into genuine hate speech however, are steadily working their way up through the infraction process and out of the forum.

Sunshine doesn't really work as a disinfectant in an anonymous forum.I'm not suggesting an inst ban for everyone but at least come down on the dog whistles. The Lost Lane thread still refers to "new irish" in the op, which is an obvious reference to black Irish people, with no evidence at all that black people were involved. Do you really not see the potential issues in allowing that kind of thing?



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Yes, that means it will take a little while for the forum to find its balance, and there will always be a few persistent trolls and rereg accounts, but it's still the fairest approach. As for those who advocate for instant bannings for speech with which they disagree? I'd say most of such should be happy we don't. Based on reports we get every day most posters in CA would be banned within a week under such a regime.

Again, not something I mentioned. If you check, you'll see I previously started a Feedback thread on recognising the difference between unpopular opinions and hate speech. I have no issue with opposing opinion. I have an issue with baseless claims and bigotry, which are prolific, even if they don't break specific rules. I think Boards is behind the times with addressing this stuff. The site is being used to spread the same divisive stuff that led to Brexit and Trump. The larger social media sites have had to address this eventually. I think it's naive to think it won't have to be done here.
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13-07-2019, 10:45   #113
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I think Boards is behind the times with addressing this stuff.
This is the strictest discussion site on the internet. I don't see how they're behind the times at all.

Like so often, I'll ask you, do you have any solutions? Maybe this forum would be best named "Constructive Feedback" instead.
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13-07-2019, 15:22   #114
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Lol.
Great feedback JD! Well thought out and mature response there.
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13-07-2019, 19:15   #115
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The reregs last far far too long before they get banned.

Everybody know they are one, including mods and admin I'm sure, but whatever boxes need to be ticked to confirm it allow them to spew the same bile for weeks, months, before they finally get banned.
Maybe a minimum post count before being allowed to post or open threads at least
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13-07-2019, 21:48   #116
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Great feedback JD! Well thought out and mature response there.
Nothing more needed to be said, it's a sanctionable offence on the politics forum to imply someone -. (Yourself even) may be a fine gael or govt shill, and so naturally enough, this carries over to implying/calling someone a "shinnerbot" which - if I understand correctly means they are posting on behalf of Sinn Fein, either as an official or unofficial shill.

To me, it's a simple case of if a poster has, and constantly airs or post opinions that people interpret as being in favour of partition, well then that poster could rightfully be described as a partitionist, if you find the label offensive, perhaps tone down the partitionist persona and posts.

Getting upset because you're not allowed to imply someone is posting for/or on behalf of a political party, isn't the same thing, not by any stretch.


You basically are whinging that the rules shouldn't apply to you because you don't want them to.
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14-07-2019, 10:46   #117
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There is already a report function to alert mods to posts that may be against forum charter.
Forum charters already cover what needs to be covered.
I don't see a need to have further restriction of opinions put in place.
It isn't democratic.

Last edited by biko; 14-07-2019 at 10:51.
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14-07-2019, 12:08   #118
markodaly
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Nothing more needed to be said, it's a sanctionable offence on the politics forum to imply someone -. (Yourself even) may be a fine gael or govt shill, and so naturally enough, this carries over to implying/calling someone a "shinnerbot" which - if I understand correctly means they are posting on behalf of Sinn Fein, either as an official or unofficial shill.

To me, it's a simple case of if a poster has, and constantly airs or post opinions that people interpret as being in favour of partition, well then that poster could rightfully be described as a partitionist, if you find the label offensive, perhaps tone down the partitionist persona and posts.

Getting upset because you're not allowed to imply someone is posting for/or on behalf of a political party, isn't the same thing, not by any stretch.


You basically are whinging that the rules shouldn't apply to you because you don't want them to.
"That people interpret" are the key words there in your post JD.
The issue at play in the UI thread at the moment is two-fold.

If one airs anything less than 100% pure abject approval and joy at the prospect at a United Ireland at any cost, then you are classed as a partitionist. This language is straight out from the Brexit debacle over the in the UK

Following on from that, the word itself is being used to aggressively provoke, inflame, virtue signal and label people into a box. Its use has exploded in the past few months with the aim to annoy more than to engage. It's the online Americanisation of language and labels, nothing more nothing else.
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14-07-2019, 20:55   #119
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If one airs anything less than 100% pure abject approval and joy at the prospect at a United Ireland at any cost, then you are classed as a partitionist. This language is straight out from the Brexit debacle over the in the UK
Welcome to Northern Ireland threads. I pity the mods who have to deal with them. As any regular observer of these threads will see its generally the same posters arguing over the same stuff ad nauseum. Where you end up with the hardliners on both sides and anyone who is any where near the middle ground gets pushed out, labelled, frustrated etc. It's nothing new. At one point the politics Forum had a separate sub forum specifically to allow separate rules for those threads(anyone can feel free to correct me that's based on my recollection). Having a separate Northern Ireland sub forum itself caused a degree of discontent at the time as well.

How do you sort it encourage more moderate views on both sides to be seen ? To be fair over the years various mods have done their best and tried a number of different things. The issue is that for the hardliners on both sides politics based Northern Ireland threads are very emotitive with the history involved. This is something the mods can't change.
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18-07-2019, 21:31   #120
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The reregs last far far too long before they get banned.

Everybody know they are one, including mods and admin I'm sure, but whatever boxes need to be ticked to confirm it allow them to spew the same bile for weeks, months, before they finally get banned.



There's one on there that has - at the bare minimum - 3 site banned previous accounts, that has been allowed to continue to post under yet another identity. I know the user base of boards is shrinking, but do we really need to tolerate that kind of thing?
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