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16-06-2019, 13:51   #46
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Mike that's a nice post, but there is one huge problem.

One person's "islamophobia" is another person's "islam's teachings are bad because...", or one person's "racism" is another person's "this distinct group of people seem to have a problem with...."

Having a non-randomly chosen group of people tasked with making those arbitrary desicions is the issue, and furthermore, having that same group not applying their interpretation of the charter in a consistent fashion. And even further, those people and people further up the hierarchy getting their heckles up when anyone makes the mistake of questioning that.
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16-06-2019, 19:07   #47
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Originally Posted by Kenzie Better Kangaroo View Post
One person's "islamophobia" is another person's "islam's teachings are bad because...", or one person's "racism" is another person's "this distinct group of people seem to have a problem with...."
Broadly speaking, I agree with you - what you describe above is by definition "points of view", and of course they are going to differ from person to person. However, the above might hold more weight for me if people were actually posting along the lines of "this distinct group of people seem to have a problem with....". But, to a concerning degree, that's not the case. One poster's recent charming viewpoint on the the travelling community was:

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Surely a plausible call for ethnic cleansing. They add nothing to society, all they do is take take take. A scourge.
...and this is by no means a unique example.

This is my own personal opinion here, but as a discussion forum, we can't simply gag all racist/homophobic/misogynistic viewpoints, if for no other reason than so they can be fought. But on what planet does dehumanizing prejudiced nastiness like the above permit civil conversation? Folks who post this sort of bile should be banned.

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Originally Posted by Kenzie Better Kangaroo View Post
Having a non-randomly chosen group of people tasked with making those arbitrary desicions is the issue, and furthermore, having that same group not applying their interpretation of the charter in a consistent fashion. And even further, those people and people further up the hierarchy getting their heckles up when anyone makes the mistake of questioning that.
What would you propose in its stead? There are arguments for both camps of course. On one side, it can be debated that allowing such rhetoric normalizes and spreads it, no matter how much effort is put into fighting it. And that allowing it to be debated it puts it into the socially acceptable category of "things a reasonable person can debate over". On the other hand, not allowing it to be discussed pushes it underground where people become more radicalized, and we end up with points of view along the lines of "Look at these immigrants, taking over the country, stealing our jobs, breeding like rabbits, ethnic cleansing etc."

But either way, what remains is an interesting line to define as a moderator. Mods need to encourage people to post, yes. But they need to encourage people to post in the right way. However, I don't believe that the decision-making process is as arbitrary as you believe. I don't personally mod AH, but I would imagine a value judgement needs to be made in many cases. Some posts need to be tackled head-on and stamped out, others might be the sort of post that I would expect other posters can swing back at and make a difference in the minds of the readers. But by that very nature, sometimes it means different mods will fall on different sides of whatever line is drawn in terms of their immediate response. I might come across a reported post and decide that it's better to leave it and let people know their views are not acceptable and deplatform them, whereas another mod might fall slightly the other side of the line and remove it.

Do mods always fall on the right side of the line? Of course not. It's an imperfect system, and I don't believe there is a perfect system to deal with posts like this, and the direction AH has taken as of late. But I'd argue that the AH mods make the right call far more frequently than they make the wrong one.

Last edited by Boards.ie: David; 20-07-2019 at 21:06.
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25-06-2019, 10:31   #48
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Based on feedback here, and in other feedback threads, and with the opening of the Current Affairs/IMHO forum, we have decided to take your comments on board and close the Politics Café. I do applaud the mod team there who have put up a valiant effort to steer the Café towards what it was originally intended to be, but I also feel that to an extent, biases built up in the past iteration of the Café seem to be a bell that we can't unring.

My post in the Café this morning.

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Good morning guys,

As some of you may be aware, in response to feedback from users across the site, we recently created the Current Affairs/IMHO forum as a place for frank exchanges of views on serious and at-times controversial topics, which users clearly want to discuss. It will allow users to openly discuss issues and express their views while respecting the rights of others. Threads that have the potential for more serious or controversial discussion can be moved there. Of course, the obvious trolls still get nuked, but the idea is to foster an environment where everyone can openly discuss issues and express their views while respecting the rights of others.

However, by going ahead with this, we have decided to close the Café.

From a purely practical perspective, the Café will become redundant with the Current Affairs forum in place - content in each is similar enough that posters simply aren't going to request access and post in the Café if they can post in an open-access Current Affairs forum. The issue of access and visibility is one that comes up on a regular basis in feedback, and while a degree of that is coming from posters who still hold on to biases built up in previous iterations of the Café, it's still something we need to consider.

I'd like to thank the mods and posters who put in so much effort into keeping this place open over the past few years, and I hope to see you bring your discussions to the Current Affairs forum. For now, we will not accept any new posters to the Café, and will close it this weekend, to give threads a chance to wind down.

~Mike

Last edited by mike_ie; 25-06-2019 at 10:51.
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25-06-2019, 14:05   #49
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Will the limited number of active(ish) threads in there be moved across also?
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01-07-2019, 16:40   #50
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Will the limited number of active(ish) threads in there be moved across also?
After discussion with the CA mods and Café mods, a handful of active threads were moved, yes.
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