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22-04-2019, 22:58   #46
aloyisious
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The RCC is not a public service that everyone is entitled to avail of at all. It’s a private club that you are not obliged to join but if you join you have to obey the rules. .
Re your last, do most or all people baptised have a choice when it comes to it, given that the usual age for a person to be given the sacrament of baptism is when they are infants and totally unaware of what is going on or in a mental position of cognition as to the import and meaning of the blessing? Did you receive the sacrament of baptism as an infant or as an adult capable of deciding to say yes or no to being baptised?

If the answer you give honestly to both above questions is that the sacrament was performed on infants including you, then the example you used and the question of obligation you mentioned has no bearing when the infant is not capable of making a decision to join the private club but is involuntarily made a member (co-opted as it were) by at least one other person into the RCC.

Seeing as you brought baptism into this, and claim that the club is not a public service that anyone is entitled to avail of at al, what are the restrictions you see? IMO baptism has no bearing at all on the topic of this thread.
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22-04-2019, 23:13   #47
DubInMeath
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And what right do you have to tell me what I can think, what I can say, where I can stand? None. Glory, glory hallelujah.
Why as a person who isn't Irish, according to your own admission, so intent on interfering with how we go about our lives and how we run our country?

Your the same in relation to immigrants, which again as your according to your own admission not Irish is a joke and more I'd say to do with your religious bigotry and racisim.
Your also the same in relation to how we handle our taxes and social welfare. Wanting to sterilize people on social welfare so your taxes aren't spent on children's allowance, preferring to have them spent on the reintroduction of mother and baby homes where these fallen women in your opinion can work off their sin.

You have the right to stand on the street but your still bound by the public order act, but perhaps you feel the law doesn't apply in this case.

'
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22-04-2019, 23:20   #48
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i wouldn't be so sure. if they could be introduced then they already would be or there would be a plan already in motion to do it. even if introduced, they won't stop the protest. in fact there is a possibility that we may end up with tactics being used as per london this week, by people who may not agree with the protests themselves but who would be against restrictions being placed on protesting because there is always a possibility of restrictions on protesting being extended.



they haven't been restricting any rights. they have been preventing the introduction of a discretionary allowence which can be taken away at any time.



as i see it, a decision that allows the killing of human beings in utero for absolutely any reason rather then simply some very necessary reasons, is not a decision worth accepting or respecting. a decision that has turned ireland from a grownup country to a backward nation as i see it.
In one word horse****
You were calling for people including women and children to be baton charged for protesting about a concert on here in the past, so no your not worried about any future affects on the right to protest, you just want to have certain groups you support be able to harass people looking for medical treatment.
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22-04-2019, 23:45   #49
Odhinn
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No no I don’t support that at all. The RCC is not a public service that everyone is entitled to avail of at all. It’s a private club that you are not obliged to join but if you join you have to obey the rules.

So if I was a liberal protestant in Ireland in 1970, I'd have no problem accessing contraception or getting a divorce?
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23-04-2019, 00:17   #50
end of the road
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In one word horse****
You were calling for people including women and children to be baton charged for protesting about a concert on here in the past,
yes, in the past. i said in the previous varient of this thread that i no longer believe this should happen. so this attempt to use something i no longer believe against me has again failed, as it has plenty of times before.

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so no your not worried about any future affects on the right to protest, you just want to have certain groups you support be able to harass people looking for medical treatment.
i am very worried about future effects on the right to protest. the right to protest is vital and any attempt to restrict it from what we have must be gone against and made unviable to keep. people are not able to harass people looking for actual medical treatment. however, AOD is not medical treatment as you don't, bar cases where another life is at risk of being ended, treat something by ending the life of another human being.
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23-04-2019, 00:40   #51
DubInMeath
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Originally Posted by end of the road View Post
yes, in the past. i said in the previous varient of this thread that i no longer believe this should happen. so this attempt to use something i no longer believe against me has again failed, as it has plenty of times before.



i am very worried about future effects on the right to protest. the right to protest is vital and any attempt to restrict it from what we have must be gone against and made unviable to keep. people are not able to harass people looking for actual medical treatment. however, AOD is not medical treatment as you don't, bar cases where another life is at risk of being ended, treat something by ending the life of another human being.
Again horse****.
Your no more worried about any affects on the freedom to protest than you were about cases of ffa and rape before the referendum.

Abortion is a medical treatment regardless of how much you want to stamp your feet and say it's not. You might not agree but you don't have the right to harass anyone who wishes to obtain one as per their choice.
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23-04-2019, 00:54   #52
end of the road
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Again horse****.
Your no more worried about any affects on the freedom to protest than you were about cases of ffa and rape before the referendum.

Abortion is a medical treatment regardless of how much you want to stamp your feet and say it's not. You might not agree but you don't have the right to harass anyone who wishes to obtain one as per their choice.
i am worried about the effects on the freedom and right to protest. a vital right which must be protected.
i was very much worried about cases of rape and FFA before the referendum, hence my disgust at them being used to push through abortion on demand.
one has the right to protest against the ending of another human being's life and i support that right, as simply protesting is not harassment. if someone is engaging in harassment, then that must be reported to the gardai, who have all of the powers that ever could be needed, to deal with the person engaging in the harassment, who the gardai will deal with.
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23-04-2019, 00:54   #53
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yes, in the past. i said in the previous varient of this thread that i no longer believe this should happen. so this attempt to use something i no longer believe against me has again failed, as it has plenty of times before.
Unfortunately given your posting history we dont believe this.

If its true, what changed your mind?
Why do you think that the rights of anti abortion protesters to protest in front of certain places is important but thought that other protestors deserved to be beaten and water cannoned?
Did you previously think that anti abortion protestors deserved to be likewise treated back when you believed that?
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23-04-2019, 01:10   #54
end of the road
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Unfortunately given your posting history we dont believe this.
it doesn't matter whether you, and it's just you, believe me. what i said is accurate. i no longer believe it and that is that.

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If its true, what changed your mind?

Why do you think that the rights of anti abortion protesters to protest in front of certain places is important but thought that other protestors deserved to be beaten and water cannoned?

Did you previously think that anti abortion protestors deserved to be likewise treated back when you believed that?
such questions are irrelevant to abortion. what matters is i no longer believe protesters should be brutalised if i disagree with them.
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23-04-2019, 01:24   #55
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it doesn't matter whether you, and it's just you, believe me. what i said is accurate. i no longer believe it and that is that.

such questions are irrelevant to abortion. what matters is i no longer believe protesters should be brutalised if i disagree with them.
Well again, this doesn't at all seem genuine.
And in my opinion I think it's indicitive of the nature of the tactic of whining about antiabortion protesters right to protest in specific places.
(Specific places that just also happen to be the best places to engage in harassment, intimidation and shaming.)
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23-04-2019, 01:44   #56
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it doesn't matter whether you, and it's just you, believe me. what i said is accurate. i no longer believe it and that is that.



....
Just for the record, I don't believe you either.
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23-04-2019, 01:56   #57
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Originally Posted by end of the road View Post
it doesn't matter whether you, and it's just you, believe me. what i said is accurate. i no longer believe it and that is that.

such questions are irrelevant to abortion. what matters is i no longer believe protesters should be brutalised if i disagree with them.
But if you can't explain this change of heart, it's hard to see why anyone should take it seriously at all. It seems not only random but wildly variable, a bit like a two year old who suddenly claims to hate food that he loved only yesterday.
It might be wiser for others to ignore much of what you claim to believe - because perhaps tomorrow you'll wake up and believe protestors should be shot on sight.
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23-04-2019, 04:41   #58
Calina
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Regarding the RCC and SSM the Sacrament of Matrimony is for Catholics only with some small allowances. As the RCC rules doesn’t allow for SSM then the church is of course going to refuse you the sacrament.
A priest is not obliged to marry anyone he deems not suitable for marriage, you are not entitled to demand a priest marry you and the priest is exempt from the Eqaulity Act in his regard.
In this case then, the Catholic Church should never have had the right to enter marriages on the civil register.

On the wider question of access to abortion services, and protests, the right to protest could be limited if it is abused and used to harass vulnerable people. People would still have the right to free association but where they associate could be restricted to exclude certain sensitive locations.
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23-04-2019, 06:50   #59
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Referring to correctly legislated abortion as “abortion on demand” also does not help your case.

Also, it absolutely is medical treatment, anything that requires the intervention of someone who is a medical professional is medical treatment, so again, you’re passing opinion off as fact when it clearly isn’t.
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23-04-2019, 07:24   #60
Cabaal
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Christians in the USA doing their bit to stop the UN classing rape as a weapon of war

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...on-of-war-veto

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The US is threatening to veto a United Nations resolution on combatting the use of rape as a weapon of war because of its language on reproductive and sexual health, according to a senior UN official and European diplomats.
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European states, led by Germany, the UK and France, have been resisting abandoning the language on access to family planning and women’s health clinics, as they believe it would mean surrendering the gains of recent decades in terms of international recognition of women’s rights.
Damn right it would, but then thats the big plan by the USA right now...undo rights
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