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11-06-2019, 18:12   #1
Ubbquittious
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Why did we vote yes to the Lisbon treaty again?

As far as I remember this was pretty much a vote agreeing to give ourselves less power within Europe and giving Europe more power over our laws.

"We" wanted some assurances we wouldn't have to bring in abortion if Lisbon was voted in, a few years later we decided to bring in abortion anyway.

The successful yes campaign was telling us we had to vote for it "for jobs" as there was a shortage of jobs around at the time the rerun of the referendum was happening but nobody had any idea how it would create jobs and they never made any attempt to tell us how this would happen. So as far as I can tell this was a pack of lies.


So we voted to give ourselves less power and the EU more, for what exactly?
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11-06-2019, 18:22   #2
EmmetSpiceland
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Because we voted the wrong way the first time.
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11-06-2019, 18:25   #3
Sephiroth_dude
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This thread has been closed in After Hours and moved to the Politics Cafe as the topic is more suited for discussion in the PC.

Please bear with the mods as they review the thread and decide whether to repoen it or keep it closed, it may not be gotten to immediately as it's a busy forum.

Please also have a look at the Politics Cafe charter before posting.
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12-06-2019, 04:40   #4
Peregrinus
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What powers do you think the Lisbon Treaty took from the member states and transferred to the Union?
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12-06-2019, 10:52   #5
FreudianSlippers
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Wait... is OP saying the EU forced us to vote for abortion or?
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12-06-2019, 11:01   #6
Markcheese
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I can't really remember what the Lisbon treaty was about.. And I don't thínk most of us knew then,
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12-06-2019, 11:17   #7
FreudianSlippers
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Originally Posted by Markcheese View Post
I can't really remember what the Lisbon treaty was about.. And I don't thínk most of us knew then,
The Lisbon Treaty was really just a technical treaty consolidating a lot of what we had voted for previously. It took a lot of what we voted for in Maastricht and Nice and gave effect to them, forming the European Union out of the various individual "pillars" (EC, police/judicial cooperation and foreign security) and it changed from unanimous voting to majority voting.

Really nothing too interesting for the average citizen in the Lisbon Treaty IMHO.
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14-06-2019, 13:19   #8
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To get it to pass, we also made the 28th Amendment of the Constitution such that we couldn't join an EU army without a referendum
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14-06-2019, 15:29   #9
Eric Cartman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreudianSlippers View Post
The Lisbon Treaty was really just a technical treaty consolidating a lot of what we had voted for previously. It took a lot of what we voted for in Maastricht and Nice and gave effect to them, forming the European Union out of the various individual "pillars" (EC, police/judicial cooperation and foreign security) and it changed from unanimous voting to majority voting.

Really nothing too interesting for the average citizen in the Lisbon Treaty IMHO.
I still think unanimous voting should have been kept. Will only become more important as the EU tries to strangle us with the ‘climate change’ choker to force change upon us

*NB : i am not nor ever have denied climate change, I just think its being used as an excuse by the EU and national governments to extract more cash out of the middle class and small businesses and a load of ‘measures’ that have negligible impact on polution but line a lot of pockets arent what europe needs.
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14-06-2019, 19:18   #10
Ubbquittious
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Originally Posted by FreudianSlippers View Post
Wait... is OP saying the EU forced us to vote for abortion or?
No this was the sop they threw us in order help make us vote yes in the re run. That we could retain our own abortion law even if we vote yes.
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15-06-2019, 03:26   #11
Peregrinus
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I still think unanimous voting should have been kept. Will only become more important as the EU tries to strangle us with the ‘climate change’ choker to force change upon us

*NB : i am not nor ever have denied climate change, I just think its being used as an excuse by the EU and national governments to extract more cash out of the middle class and small businesses and a load of ‘measures’ that have negligible impact on polution but line a lot of pockets arent what europe needs.
Any reason to think that the Council of Ministers acting collectively is more likelyt to approve policies of this kind that national governments acting individually are?
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15-06-2019, 04:16   #12
Eric Cartman
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Any reason to think that the Council of Ministers acting collectively is more likelyt to approve policies of this kind that national governments acting individually are?
Votes on the ground at local constituencies are more influential in guarding against negatively impacting policy by local politicians than majority rule in the EU determining what other countries do.

For instance countries like germany, france, the uk etc... with a city metro system and working public transport could all agree ‘hey banning passenger cars from the city / a massive congestion charge / investment (eu loans) only in anti car measures’ are a great idea. An idea that would cripple cities in countries like ireland and romania.
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15-06-2019, 04:34   #13
Peregrinus
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Yeah, you're overlooking the EU principle of subsidiarity. A decision on whether to restrict or ban cars or charge for cars in the centre of, e.g., London is not a matter for the Council of Ministers; it's a matter for the local government authorities in London. As in fact we can see simply by looking at actual reality.

On edit: Leaving aside the specific example, which perhaps is not a good one, you're concerned perhaps at the "democratic deficit"; the view that the EU decision-making institutions are too far removed from citizens for democratic accountability to be effective. But one of the purposes of the Lisbon Treaty was to address that, at least to some extent, by building more fundamental democracy into the EU institutions and systems. Which would explain why we voted for it.

Last edited by Peregrinus; 15-06-2019 at 04:38.
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