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Struggling to find info on 1837 birth

  • 09-10-2015 7:39pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭


    My mothers paternal great grandfather was born in 1837 (from various sources including 1901 and 1911 census). I know exactly where he was born, but, I can't find any info on him.

    I would like to know how many brothers and sisters he had and who his parents were?

    I have searched ancestry.com, familysearch.org and irishgeneaology.ie. The Catholic Parishes at NLI don't go that far back for my parish.

    Anybody any suggestions?

    Thanks


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    Do you know when he married? If he married after 1864 you can find his marriage certificate which will name his father. Have you searched NLI parish registers for his marriage?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Maybe ring the parish and ask if they have any records


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    What's the parish? And what's your source for knowing exactly where he was born?

    If you've exhausted the obvious options, you may be out of luck.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    P_1 wrote: »
    Maybe ring the parish and ask if they have any records
    I've never managed to get any response, never mind information, from parishes. I think whoever is left in the parish, whether an 80 year old priest struggling on his own, or a parish secretary, are probably either fed up with genealogy queries and/or too inundated with other work. God be with the days when parishes had lots of curates looking for something to do!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭BigCon


    If you feel comfortable posting the information here some of us may be able to help?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭kboc


    This is my mothers paternal great grandfather. He was born on a a family farm which is still in the family.

    Parish = Lordship and Ballymacscanlon, Archdiocese of Armagh

    Name= Peter McDermott

    YOB = 1837 (I am getting this from the 1901 and 1911 Census)

    All help welcome
    Thanks
    pinkypinky wrote: »
    What's the parish? And what's your source for knowing exactly where he was born?

    If you've exhausted the obvious options, you may be out of luck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    I haven't managed to find a Peter McDermott born abt 1837 in either the 1901 or 1911 census. There's a Peter McDermott age 50 [b. abt 1851] from Bellurgan, Ballymascanlon, Co Louth at http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Louth/Ballymascanlan/Bellurgan_Castletown/1563037/

    Can you give a link to the census page for your Peter McDermott?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    You could try Carlingford which starts 1835, or Carlingford South. Or maybe Dundalk, which with gaps, goes back to 1790.


  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭kboc


    1901 census entry here and 1911 census here.

    If they are not in Lordship and Ballymacscanlon, the only other one they might be in is Faughart, the neighbouring parish.


    Many thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    50 in 1901 and 75 in 1911, is a broad span of possible birth years. If he was 75 on census day 1911, he should be born April 1835 - March 1836, but 50 in 1901 census would mean born April 1850 - March 1851. Therefore he could have been born anytime between mid 1830s to early 1850s. However the 1901 census return is more likely to be closer to the truth, for a number of reasons, firstly he would have a better memory when he was younger, secondly the 1911 age may be given in support of a claim for the old age pension. These ages have to be treated with caution,as round figures like fifty or seventy five, are often just rounded up or down estimates.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    I'm not sure why you're convinced that Peter McDermott was born in 1837, since the census records show widely different ages. What you find from the 1911 Census is that he was married to Catherine for 45 years, meaning they married sometime around 1866.

    I have found this marriage for Peter McDermott in Dundalk
    Name PETER MCDERMOTT
    Date of Event 1868
    Group Registration ID N/R
    SR District/Reg Area Dundalk
    Returns Year 1868
    Returns Quarter 1
    Returns Volume No 2
    Returns Page No 906
    It would be worth getting the marriage certificate as it will show Peter's father's name, occupation, perhaps age, and witnesses who are related.

    It looks like Peter married
    CATHERINE HANLON
    Date of Event 1868
    Group Registration ID N/R
    SR District/Reg Area Dundalk
    Returns Year 1868
    Returns Quarter 1
    Returns Volume No 2
    Returns Page No 905

    A Peter McDermott married Margaret McDonald at Lordship parish http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/56/mode/1up 4th Feb 1868, witnesses Anthony McDermott and Mary McGlave[?]; I haven't checked further to see if there's another Peter McDermott who married later in the year.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    It isn't as common as is often quoted that people aged themselves up to qualify for the OAP between 1901 and 1911. There were other criteria than age to meet.

    In this particular case, you've got a very broad age range on those censuses. I'm still not clear where you get 1837 as the definite birth year.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    I've found seven children for Peter McDermott and Catherine [Kate] Hanlon, three born before 1868 the official date of their marriage
    Children of Peter McDermott and Catherine [Kate] Hanlon [dates from Familysearch http://bit.ly/1jnFk2z]:
    Mary Ann 28 May 1864 – earliest record on NLI Lordship Baptismal Records Sept 1864
    James McDermott 21 May 1866, sponsors Peter Hanlon & Eliza McEvry http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/10/mode/1up
    Bridget McDermott 11 Oct 1867, sponsors Edward McKenna[?] and Mary A. Hanlon http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/14/mode/1up
    Elizabeth McDermott 2 Jun 1869, sponsors Owen Hanlon and Margaret Sands[?]http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/18/mode/1up
    Margaret McDermott, Bellurgan, 8 May 1871, sponsors Joseph Rice & Bridget O’Neill http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/23/mode/1up
    Michael McDermott 29 May 1873 – not in Lordship for this date
    Henry McDermott 28 April 1875 – sponsors Thomas Rice ad Catherine Hanlon http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/34/mode/1up

    Findmypast has multiple references to Peter McDermott, Co Louth including Griffith's valuation, Petty Court Sessions, purchase of dog licences. Some of these may be relevant to your Peter McDermott and it might be worthwhile registering with FindMyPast for a short term subscription.


  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭kboc


    This is them. I am subscribed to ancestry.com and i thoiught that would be enough, as I thought all these web sites share the same databases. Obviously not.

    I am going to join rootsireland or findmypast, or maybe both.

    Thanks
    KildareFan wrote: »
    I've found seven children for Peter McDermott and Catherine [Kate] Hanlon, three born before 1868 the official date of their marriage
    Children of Peter McDermott and Catherine [Kate] Hanlon [dates from Familysearch http://bit.ly/1jnFk2z]:
    Mary Ann 28 May 1864 – earliest record on NLI Lordship Baptismal Records Sept 1864
    James McDermott 21 May 1866, sponsors Peter Hanlon & Eliza McEvry http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/10/mode/1up
    Bridget McDermott 11 Oct 1867, sponsors Edward McKenna[?] and Mary A. Hanlon http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/14/mode/1up
    Elizabeth McDermott 2 Jun 1869, sponsors Owen Hanlon and Margaret Sands[?]http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/18/mode/1up
    Margaret McDermott, Bellurgan, 8 May 1871, sponsors Joseph Rice & Bridget O’Neill http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/23/mode/1up
    Michael McDermott 29 May 1873 – not in Lordship for this date
    Henry McDermott 28 April 1875 – sponsors Thomas Rice ad Catherine Hanlon http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632497#page/34/mode/1up

    Findmypast has multiple references to Peter McDermott, Co Louth including Griffith's valuation, Petty Court Sessions, purchase of dog licences. Some of these may be relevant to your Peter McDermott and it might be worthwhile registering with FindMyPast for a short term subscription.


  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭kboc


    I know i am really pushing my luck here!

    How could I find Peter McDermott's (born in Bellurgan, Dundalk, 1837) parents?

    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    rootsireland lists a number of Peter McDermott baptisms in Lordship in the 1850s;

    1854 July 7th, Peter McDermott of Thomas & Bridget McD, sponsors : Thomas McD & Anne Fegan.
    1852 July 1st, " Michael & Mary " " Pat McKenna & Mary McD
    1857 July 20th, " Terence McD & Kitty Malone Owen McKenna & Bridget Hanratty
    1858 October 10th, " Owen & Catherine McD Peter Rice & Mary Heeny


  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    I'd suggest it's not worth joining RootsIreland now that the parish registers are online at NLI.

    A search on the Free familysearch.org site gave a number of children born to Peter McDermott and Kate Hanlon, giving their approximate baptismal/birth dates. A search on the free NLI baptismal registers site for Lordship on or around the dates gave me the sponsors for the various children. At least two of the dates transcribed by Familysearch were incorrect, but by browsing through the various pages it was possible to find one of those. I didn't search for the second child. Another thing of note is that the ages of the children in the 1901 census were at least 10 years less than they should have been.


  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    kboc wrote: »
    I know i am really pushing my luck here!

    How could I find Peter McDermott's (born in Bellurgan, Dundalk, 1837) parents?

    Thanks
    You will find his father's name on his marriage certificate. You will get the marriage cert from the General Records Office [GRO] in Werburgh Street, Dublin, or from Roscommon using the year, volume number & page number which I listed in an earlier message.


  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭kboc


    KildareFan wrote: »
    You will find his father's name on his marriage certificate. You will get the marriage cert from the General Records Office [GRO] in Werburgh Street, Dublin, or from Roscommon using the year, volume number & page number which I listed in an earlier message.

    Thank you very much.
    I think I'll join rootsireland as I find the NLI website quiet frustrating.


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