National Hurling League 2021 discussion

Slipperydodger · 11-05-2021 12:43pm

A good review of the first weekend of the league on the Dalo hurling show https://youtu.be/J8SsovrbuF4

PTH2009 · 11-05-2021 5:39pm

Not a fan of either but hope Tipp beat Cork this weekend.

The Cork hype gone into overdrive after 1 win

dobman88 · 11-05-2021 5:41pm

This could get a better response from people in here.

dobman88 wrote: »

Can someone explain the outrage over the advantage rule in hurling? It seemed to work well from what I could see overall. Especially the new rule on cynical fouls outside the penalty area leading to penalties. I only watched league Sunday but on more than a few occasions it was obvious to see lads stop themselves from a pull on the jersey or dragging a player down cynically. Seems lots of hurling fans not happy with the new rules but they looked good to me.

So could anyone shed any light on something I might seem to be missing?

JJs Left Hand · 11-05-2021 5:50pm

The issue is not with the cynical fouls around the 21 but the advantage rule and how its now enforced out the field. Up to now the ref could allow advantage for 5 seconds for the game to develop and see what happens but the new rule makes the free the advantage so they have to blow up once the foul is committed unless a clear scoring opportunity presents itself. I'm not 100% sure but it could actually be that it has to be a clear goal scoring opportunity available or they blow it up for the free.

Its just going to lead to constant stoppages in play. Tipp didn't score from play after the 23rd minute last weekend.

dobman88 · 11-05-2021 5:53pm

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

The issue is not with the cynical fouls around the 21 but the advantage rule and how its now enforced out the field. Up to now the ref could allow advantage for 5 seconds for the game to develop and see what happens but the new rule makes the free the advantage so they have to blow up once the foul is committed unless a clear scoring opportunity presents itself. I'm not 100% sure but it could actually be that it has to be a clear goal scoring opportunity available or they blow it up for the free.

Ah. That actually makes sense. 1 instance I remember that Donal Og wasnt happy with in one game was a player being fouled, got a hand pass off to a team mate on the 45 lining up for a puck at the posts and was blown up.

So ref should maybe have played advantage there but by the new rules, he has to blow for the free?

prishtinaboy99 · 11-05-2021 6:03pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Not a fan of either but hope Tipp beat Cork this weekend.

The Cork hype gone into overdrive after 1 win

Maybe the anti-Cork hype but I think Cork folk don’t have that much Hope unless a few key positions get sortedand don’t think they will this year.DOG might bring something to the table but not sure how much influence he will have aa an Analyst.

breezy1985 · 11-05-2021 6:27pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Not a fan of either but hope Tipp beat Cork this weekend.

The Cork hype gone into overdrive after 1 win

Ah no let the hype roll on. Shure isn't Cork and anything Cork related the greatest thing to ever happen to humanity

Grats · 11-05-2021 7:21pm

Well, speaking of the Cork hype - Cusack got totally carried away with their win over Waterford. In some respects the win was welcome as Cusack had no whinging about the spare hand, over carrying and persistent fouling! He seemed to be so excited that all his usual moaning was gone, although there was plenty of incidents of throwing the ball etc.

With regards O'Grady, again Cusack got carried away especially when he said he did great work in Limerick during his short stint as manager there. He also credits him with inventing the short passing game. I'm sure neither would like to be reminded that Cody destroyed that tactic in 2006 and Cork are still in recovery.

Waterford scored 1.27 playing poorly. Cusack couldn't acknowledge that fact, perhaps O'Grady will.

breezy1985 · 11-05-2021 7:34pm

Grats wrote: »

Well, speaking of the Cork hype - Cusack got totally carried away with their win over Waterford. In some respects the win was welcome as Cusack had no whinging about the spare hand, over carrying and persistent fouling! He seemed to be so excited that all his usual moaning was gone, although there was plenty of incidents of throwing the ball etc.

With regards O'Grady, again Cusack got carried away especially when he said he did great work in Limerick during his short stint as manager there. He also credits him with inventing the short passing game. I'm sure neither would like to be reminded that Cody destroyed that tactic in 2006 and Cork are still in recovery.

Waterford scored 1.27 playing poorly. Cusack couldn't acknowledge that fact, perhaps O'Grady will.

He did do great work with Limerick and he did if not invent he was certainly the first manager I remember that targeted possession over hoofing at puckouts

JJs Left Hand · 11-05-2021 7:41pm

dobman88 wrote: »

Ah. That actually makes sense. 1 instance I remember that Donal Og wasnt happy with in one game was a player being fouled, got a hand pass off to a team mate on the 45 lining up for a puck at the posts and was blown up.

So ref should maybe have played advantage there but by the new rules, he has to blow for the free?

In previous years he would've played advantage but under the new rules he has to blow for the free.

Grats · 11-05-2021 7:43pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

He did do great work with Limerick and he did if not invent he was certainly the first manager I remember that targeted possession over hoofing at puckouts

Remind me what he did with Limerick and how long he was there?

Nonoperational · 11-05-2021 7:44pm

Wouldnt say there are many Cork people 'hyping' Cork at all. Miles Limerick/Galway still.

prishtinaboy99 · 11-05-2021 8:12pm

Grats wrote: »

Well, speaking of the Cork hype - Cusack got totally carried away with their win over Waterford. In some respects the win was welcome as Cusack had no whinging about the spare hand, over carrying and persistent fouling! He seemed to be so excited that all his usual moaning was gone, although there was plenty of incidents of throwing the ball etc.

With regards O'Grady, again Cusack got carried away especially when he said he did great work in Limerick during his short stint as manager there. He also credits him with inventing the short passing game. I'm sure neither would like to be reminded that Cody destroyed that tactic in 2006 and Cork are still in recovery.

Waterford scored 1.27 playing poorly. Cusack couldn't acknowledge that fact, perhaps O'Grady will.

Newtownshandrum invented the passing game,O Grady just carried that through to success. He had Greyhounds like the O Connors so why not use a winning blueprint.You can also say that Kilkenny reinvented themselves to stop that like the 06 final but I think hurling is the poorer for going the way of puke football. In the end the Knockers can blame Cork for the passing game and the puke tactics to counteract it.

breezy1985 · 11-05-2021 8:15pm

Grats wrote: »

Remind me what he did with Limerick and how long he was there?

Brought a level of respect and quality back after some really crap years and starting the process of dragging Limerick into the 21st century. Laid the groundwork work for Allen to finally win us a trophy after so long

TheMilkyPirate · 11-05-2021 8:25pm

Ger Kelly scoring a point from a puck out today. Surely there's an argument to make the sliothar heavier

Grats · 11-05-2021 8:57pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Brought a level of respect and quality back after some really crap years and starting the process of dragging Limerick into the 21st century. Laid the groundwork work for Allen to finally win us a trophy after so long

And how many years did he invest in all of that?

dobman88 · 11-05-2021 9:52pm

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

In previous years he would've played advantage but under the new rules he has to blow for the free.

Fair enough. I can see why it has irked people so, and agree with them that it's a poor adjustment to the rule.

castletownman · 12-05-2021 6:59pm

Are people really surprised that hurling pundits are annoyed at a rule change?

Some of them probably pine for the days you could pile in on the goalie, and lament the day wearing the helmet became compulsory.

breezy1985 · 12-05-2021 7:27pm

castletownman wrote: »

Are people really surprised that hurling pundits are annoyed at a rule change?

Some of them probably pine for the days you could pile in on the goalie, and lament the day wearing the helmet became compulsory.

Did you bother listening to what they said ?

I agree with them the old advantage rule which was only a few years old was fine no need for this stupid change. Most of the pundits have played in the last 10 years it's not like Pat Spillane or Johnny Giles going on about the good old days

Grats · 12-05-2021 8:13pm

castletownman wrote: »

Are people really surprised that hurling pundits are annoyed at a rule change?

Some of them probably pine for the days you could pile in on the goalie, and lament the day wearing the helmet became compulsory.

Not really surprised as some of the very same pundits did plenty of whinging about the advantage rule as it was previously. Under the previous rule many fouls were never blown, which camouflaged the true number of fouls, and neither were the offenders reprimanded.

If the wish is to keep the game moving, then get the managers to coach the players not to foul persistently. It's in the managers hands not in the refs.

breezy1985 · 12-05-2021 8:19pm

Grats wrote: »

Not really surprised as some of the very same pundits did plenty of whinging about the advantage rule as it was previously. Under the previous rule many fouls were never blown, which camouflaged the true number of fouls, and neither were the offenders reprimanded.

If the wish is to keep the game moving, then get the managers to coach the players not to foul persistently. It's in the managers hands not in the refs.

So play should be stopped even to the detriment of the fouled team to satisfy you and the stats

Grats · 12-05-2021 8:23pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

So play should be stopped even to the detriment of the fouled team to satisfy you and the stats

Nothing to do with satisfying me, or pundits for that matter. We're all entitled to an opinion. Play is normally stopped in order to take a free! A free awarded to a team is very rarely to the detriment of that team. Very occasionally it might be but that doesn't get away from the persistent fouling that has crept into the game.

breezy1985 · 12-05-2021 8:29pm

Grats wrote: »

Nothing to do with satisfying me, or pundits for that matter. We're all entitled to an opinion. Play is normally stopped in order to take a free! A free awarded to a team is very rarely to the detriment of that team. Very occasionally it might be but that doesn't get away from the persistent fouling that has crept into the game.

Fouling has not crept in. All that cracking hurleys off fellas was never legal it just wasn't pulled up.

Pulling, dragging, steps, sly whacks of the hurley none of this is new. All that has changed is you are now old enough to be able to say "back in my day"

Grats · 12-05-2021 8:49pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Fouling has not crept in. All that cracking hurleys off fellas was never legal it just wasn't pulled up.

Pulling, dragging, steps, sly whacks of the hurley none of this is new. All that has changed is you are now old enough to be able to say "back in my day"

You lose that argument in assuming you know how old I am!

Read my post, I said PERSISTENT fouling has crept in.

At least it's being acknowledged now that fouling has always been there, not only in football. Rules and refs are finally dealing with it,.

breezy1985 · 12-05-2021 9:06pm

Grats wrote: »

You lose that argument in assuming you know how old I am!

Read my post, I said PERSISTENT fouling has crept in.

At least it's being acknowledged now that fouling has always been there, not only in football. Rules and refs are finally dealing with it,.

No persistent fouling in now called. It was always there.

And I can tell you are around long enough to be capable of giving the glory days moan. 20s youngest but probably my age which is mid 30s

Grats · 12-05-2021 9:12pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

No persistent fouling in now called. It was always there.

And I can tell you are around long enough to be capable of giving the glory days moan. 20s youngest but probably my age which is mid 30s

You really need to read posts before replying instead of making assumptions and going off the relevant issue . I never mentioned the glory days.

I suggest you read Sean Moran in the Irish Times on the issue. Here's one short quote - There is also the consideration that playing advantage effectively encourages fouling because frees are often not given and with one already on the way, it’s open season on the man in possession.

formerlyET · 12-05-2021 9:41pm

There has never been a team that fouls more than Limerick. It is a strategic part of their game - they play a very structured game built on fouling a team in the opposition's half of the field- not allowing a team to flow - refs tend not to give as many cards in an opposition half because it's not seen as strategic/cynical - but they also foul or pull down players when anywhere near breaking the half-back line or going near their goal.

The idiots on the Sunday Game - good at hurling but not so good at thinking - tried to blame the ref for the lack of flow to the game. The rule has only been in one weekend. And they have to talk about something.

Limerick kept fouling, frees kept being given. Tipp got a lot of frees. Limerick are happy to do that because it means opposition can't get their forwards into the game. No cards for limerick despite persistent fouling which meant Tipp started doing it then in the second half when Limerick got going because it works. You're going to see way more of it when the championship comes in unless refs start using the cards.

Way more fouling in the game. It's football-tactics hurling.

breezy1985 · 12-05-2021 10:09pm

Show me a team that doesn't foul as part of the game play.

You think Cody and Sheedy don't tell the players to foul

Eoinbmw · 12-05-2021 10:32pm

formerlyET wrote: »

There has never been a team that fouls more than Limerick. It is a strategic part of their game - they play a very structured game built on fouling a team in the opposition's half of the field- not allowing a team to flow - refs tend not to give as many cards in an opposition half because it's not seen as strategic/cynical - but they also foul or pull down players when anywhere near breaking the half-back line or going near their goal.

The idiots on the Sunday Game - good at hurling but not so good at thinking - tried to blame the ref for the lack of flow to the game. The rule has only been in one weekend. And they have to talk about something.

Limerick kept fouling, frees kept being given. Tipp got a lot of frees. Limerick are happy to do that because it means opposition can't get their forwards into the game. No cards for limerick despite persistent fouling which meant Tipp started doing it then in the second half when Limerick got going because it works. You're going to see way more of it when the championship comes in unless refs start using the cards.

Way more fouling in the game. It's football-tactics hurling.

More scutter!

brookville · 12-05-2021 11:10pm

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Ger Kelly scoring a point from a puck out today. Surely there's an argument to make the sliothar heavier

Neill mcmanus and tj both scored monster points aswell.Enda Rowland and Eoin Murphy have scored a good few long range points.Would it have the legs to go over the bar in the bigger pitches?The few scores in question had plenty of distance.Could we see teams getting goalies to try it more often?There probably is a fair argument for the sliothar being a little heavier.

National Hurling League 2021 discussion

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