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Ash Dieback

  • 27-05-2020 2:20pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭


    Am I imagining it or does this look like ash die back? Some leaves fell over the weekend which I assumed was because of the strong winds, however there seems to be a lot of empty top branches. There is also this discoloration on some of the younger branches. Any help would be greatly appreciated


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    Some more pictures


  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    Any ideas? This will be my only bump of the thread, I'm just a bit desperate


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    I'm no expert, but this is my thinking. First of all, was it very very VERY windy where you are a few days ago? Did the leaves change around then, or were they like that before? If they were ok before, I would really think it's wind scorch (the trees and shrubs around here are similarly damaged), but then again the wind was more like gale. Secondly, I'd cut off a small branch/largish twig that looks like it's been affected and look at the wood - if it looks healthy with no brown discoloration inside the pulp, I would guess you're ok. But like I said, I'm no expert, I don't know whether damage to the wood would be immediately visible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭Ulmus


    I'm afraid the thinning of the upper branches is most likely Ash Dieback.


  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    New Home wrote: »
    I'd cut off a small branch/largish twig that looks like it's been affected and look at the wood - if it looks healthy with no brown discoloration inside the pulp, I would guess you're ok. But like I said, I'm no expert, I don't know whether damage to the wood would be immediately visible.
    I'll do this tonight and post a picture - other than the burning leaves and the marks on some of the younger branches, there seem to be no signs of ash dieback. Only one tree looks like it has a canker and that's been there for a few years. The tree its on is mostly full of leaves

    New Home wrote: »
    I'm no expert, but this is my thinking. First of all, was it very very VERY windy where you are a few days ago? Did the leaves change around then, or were they like that before? If they were ok before, I would really think it's wind scorch (the trees and shrubs around here are similarly damaged), but then again the wind was more like gale.
    It was very windy, a lot of the trees around my area have the similar burned look on the leaves. One of our ferns does too and the tip of one has curled up and turned black like some of the upper leaves of the ash trees
    Ulmus wrote: »
    I'm afraid the thinning of the upper branches is most likely Ash Dieback.
    There is a 250m long row of ash trees and only the trees by our house seem to be affected. They're also the tallest in the row and so have grown over the house. Whenever it gets windy, they seem to be most affected (in terms of blowing around) of all of the trees in the row. That's why I'm not sure if the thinning is from the wind or not as the trees that aren't as tall as the ones thinning (i.e. the ones not taller than the house so are more shielded) seem to be fine


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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Are there lots of leaves on the ground that may have been ripped off the trees by the wind?


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home




  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    Thank you, those were both useful videos. A lot of the trees seem to be growing at different stages - some are in full bloom while some only have tiny new leaves, as well as the keys hanging. The keys make it hard to tell if leaves have fallen off/died or not. There were a lot of leaves, yes, and I even found some branches that had snapped off (just the tops of them) with healthy looking leaves on them. One of the sycamore trees lost a lot of leaves too from the wind. The biggest problem for me is the trees are so tall, I can't get a look at most of them, even with a tall ladder. There are around 7, ranging in height from (guessing) 10 feet to 20-30 feet, all very old. I'm going to try and get some better pictures tonight of areas I think might be signs

    From the site you listed, there is a canker but it doesn't look like any of the ones they listed - especially the diamond shape. None of the leaves are that black from I can see. No fungus, even on dead parts of trees/dead trees and no leaf necrosis or spotting. But that could just be me. We will see in the photos..


  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    I was feeling hopefully as each branch I checked (dead ones that had fallen off and living ones that fell off in the storm) seemed okay. I decided to cut off one of the young branches that has blackening leaves and.. Is there anything else that could explain that?


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    The blackening might have been scorching, but I wouldn't be so confident about the wood.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    I'm going to take more samples from a few more trees. The one I attached above was poorly pruned maybe 10 years ago and only recovered recently. Another tree I checked which was cut in half two years ago but has grown back great was fine. Either way, going to look into some new trees so they can start growing while the ash dies out in the hopes they replace eachother. I'm thinking lime, beech and oak would be the most similar. Some hawthorn too as that's already there


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,123 ✭✭✭standardg60


    I think you're worrying too much, there have been some very unusual weather patterns over the last few weeks, wait until next year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭Dr4gul4


    Frost + wind burn effected everything a week or 3 ago, anything that was exposed. My laurel hedge had all it's new growth blackened. I've even seen the same on new Ivy shoots killed by it.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    If you're really, really, really worried you could ask a tree surgeon to take a look.


  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    Would frost and wind burn explain the darkening within the branch at #10? I really hope ye are right and part of me thinks ye are - I'm likely just overthinking this as I've got it in my head that all ash will be dead in two-three years. I'm going to do some pruning of big dead branches this weekend and see will that help the smaller ones growing develop further (plus if there is any infection in them, that might stop it spreading). One of the bigger dead branches (maybe 60/70cm long) fell off during the wind and when I checked the inside of that there didn't seem to be any infection signs. These trees are very old and they have a lot of sentimental value to me so I'm just struggling to accept they may be goners with ash dieback.

    As for a tree surgeon, would to be able to diagnose ash dieback? I always thought tree surgeons were just fancy named tree fellers, especially since the ones that did my neighbours' a few years ago just cut things in half (which doesn't seem to be best practice at all)


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    As for a tree surgeon, would to be able to diagnose ash dieback? I always thought tree surgeons were just fancy named tree fellers, especially since the ones that did my neighbours' a few years ago just cut things in half (which doesn't seem to be best practice at all)
    No, proper tree surgeons are experts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    I'll have to look into getting one so. Thank you all for your help :) Just so I can confirm I am understanding wind scorch right, this is a new leaf I saw on the ground that had fallen off. Would this look like wind scorch?


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Yes, or something else.

    If you go by those videos, the leaves in ash dieback tend to wilt first while hanging on to the branch, then they turn brown and black but still hang onto the plant.

    Try asking here, too. http://www.gardenplansireland.com/forum/about416.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭Hillybilly4


    All of our ash trees were scorched horrendously by the late frost we had this year. The leaves turned black and crispy and then fell off in the windy conditions a few days later. Never seen the like before. They are starting to produce some new greenery but they look very sad for themselves and it will be interesting to see if they ever fully recover.


  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    New Home wrote: »
    If you're really, really, really worried you could ask a tree surgeon to take a look.

    Did just that as we got them pruned. A poor pruning job was done in the early 2000s and they had grown back poorly which may explain the thinning out. The tree surgeons said no sign of ash dieback and the insides of the trees they cut are all clean, no black ring. Thank God for that. They got quite a cut so will hopefully shoot out loads of new branches over the next few weeks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭rn


    Ash die back is endemic in Ireland now though, so should people that have Ash and likely loads of Ash, be planning to take it down now while it's healthy and useful as fuel?

    And replace it with other native trees, once the trees are down.

    I've about 20 mature Ash, probably 80+years old. All over 30m high.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,975 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    rn wrote: »
    take it down now while it's healthy and useful as fuel?
    i wouldn't be so hasty; why would a tree showing the signs not also be useful as fuel?
    regardless, and much more importantly; to cut a still healthy tree down to rescue it as fuel may also be cutting down a tree which is showing resistance to the disease, and it's those we need most. more than we need the fuel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    Unless it has it and is at risking of spreading to healthy trees or collapsing, I dont see why it should be felled. Who is to say it will ever get it, let alone in our lifetimes? What we have done is pruned ours back due to poor pruning damage and planted some more trees near them. If they eventually die, the new trees should replace them overtime. If not, it will be a nice row of large trees.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭rn


    I guess "wait and see" is more prudent approach. I've tried to pop in a few oak and beech saplings I grew last year, near to the mature Ash trees to see if they can be a back up in future years. Most of my trees are doing well currently, but there's one of the younger ones that looks poor this year. However I feel it's not Ash die back that it has, but some other disease or infection it has. The oldest Ash I had, died about 10 years ago. It was very old and extremely large. Died over course of 2 years and stood barren for 3 years. Eventually toppled over in a storm as the root system had rotted in the ground. It was a big job chopping it up and the timber was useless.

    Hence my thoughts to take down before Ash die back kills them and makes them a safety issue and waste issue.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Could it be armillaria?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,897 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    So my Ash Back experience. I'm in the Midlands and this disease was rampant. I lost a few trees and saved some through pretty drastic pruning, honestly I thought I'd lost them all. The disease doesn't appear to affect older mature trees. The two I saved are approximately 15 years old and are quite important as they are in the centre of my garden. I've another massive one at entrance, certainly over a 100 years probably more and no issues at all, however the disease spread to an adjoining site I have, every Ash died.

    The two I saved we're it seems not affected all over, one more affected than the other. Thinking I'd lost them I did pretty drastic pruning thinking ill maintain what's left as a kind of feature.

    To my astonishment, both have come back to life, I can't explain it as I thought Ash Die back fatal. Such was the pruning on one it now resembles a palm tree or bamboo :) . I'll attach pictures of results. Apologies dull day today.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,897 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Apologies I posted same pic twice, this the second tree.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭rn


    Interesting what you are finding regarding the more mature trees. I'm also in the Midlands


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,897 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    rn wrote: »
    Interesting what you are finding regarding the more mature trees. I'm also in the Midlands

    Hi, I'm in the slieve blooms :),

    I'm just amazed the two trees I took pics of came back, there was little or no growth last year, you could clearly see were the die back was attacking stems, buds etc.

    Re the mature tree, I'd have to say not as much foliage as normal to be honest but no obvious signs of disease. I'm putting that down to cold spell in early May? In my adjoing site all younger Ash trees growing around boundaries succumbed, its extraordinary how this disease works.

    I'll try attach pics of the mature Ash which must be 100 ft tall. If this gets diseased that's going to be a serious job.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,975 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    seeing what looks like dieback a hell of a lot around north county dublin today.


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