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The Future of Longwave 252kHz (RTE Radio 1)

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    For such a supposedly tiny and technologically ignorant group of listeners they sure seem to have a knack for campaigng on online forums and social media.

    Maybe they are more numerous and technically clued in than many are suggesting ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    My car has an (aftermarket) LW radio because I sepecifically got one to listen to RTE.

    It also has a USB port which I use for mp3 podcasts.

    252 listeners are not all elderly or technoligically backward. We just know which technologies work best for which application/circumstances.

    LW works. Its tried and tested. If it aint broke why fix it ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    LW works. Its tried and tested. If it aint broke why fix it ?
    Cost.
    RTÉ estimates running costs of only €250,000 per year


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    I don't really get the cost saving exercise? RTE afaik have not said what that running costs of a LW service are but they are believed to be €150,000 to €250,000 pa. Now that sounds a huge amount but when you compare the running costs to the wage costs of presenters and top executives you find you could save much more by getting rid of one presenter, one executive or a couple of management jobs.

    So if RTE save €250,000 do you think they will give it back to the tax and licence fee payers of this country or do you think they will just spend the money on something else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    UK attempted to turn off FM and had to postpone after two attempts.


    Not true.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    my3cents wrote: »

    So if RTE save €250,000 do you think they will give it back to the tax and licence fee payers of this country or do you think they will just spend the money on something else.

    I assume they'll give it to Tubs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Not true.

    Well two of their proposed deadlines passed and FM is still the main transmission platforn in the UK

    But this thread is supposed to be about longwave.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    my3cents wrote: »
    So if RTE save €250,000 do you think they will give it back to the tax and licence fee payers of this country or do you think they will just spend the money on something else.

    They'll probably use the saving to reduce the anticipated €20,000,000 loss that's forecast this year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    my3cents wrote:
    I don't really get the cost saving exercise? RTE afaik have not said what that running costs of a LW service are but they are believed to be €150,000 to €250,000 pa. Now that sounds a huge amount but when you compare the running costs to the wage costs of presenters and top executives you find you could save much more by getting rid of one presenter, one executive or a couple of management jobs.


    The cost itself is not massive if it had the numbers listening to it to justify it.
    But it doesn't.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    The cost itself is not massive if it had the numbers listening to it to justify it.
    But it doesn't.

    How much do the RTÉ DAB transmitters cost and what is their listenership?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    How much do the RTÉ DAB transmitters cost and what is their listenership?

    Or the IT infrastructure to support their online streams, Podcasts and "Listen again" services.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    Or the IT infrastructure to support their online streams, Podcasts and "Listen again" services.

    It's a growing market, not a shrinking one like LW.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Banjoxed wrote:
    How much do the RTÉ DAB transmitters cost and what is their listenership?


    You tell me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭ghostdancer


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    For such a supposedly tiny and technologically ignorant group of listeners they sure seem to have a knack for campaigng on online forums and social media.

    Maybe they are more numerous and technically clued in than many are suggesting ?

    you're right, they're not technologically ignorant. most of the very small amount of people who will be affected are no doubt well able to work out how to tune in an FM radio, or listen via the internet.

    so yet another reason why the OP and the LW defenders are talking rubbish really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Logue no2


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    You tell me.


    DAB as implemented by RTÉ has been a total failure. Nothing but the RTÉ stations and an offer to carry BBC radio was rejected by RTÉ. The commercial stations won't touch it with a barge pole and the transmitters waste far more electricity than Clarkestown as a result.

    But let's be very clear what the purpose of the Radio 1 service is on Long Wave. It's explicitly there to serve the Irish in Britain and parts of continental Europe. The service is underpinned by the Section 114 of the Broadcasting Act of 2009; the act directs RTÉ to provide a television and sound broadcasting service to the diaspora.

    RTÉ up till now have provided the sound element of its obligation to the diaspora but have hidden behind the poor offerings of the International version of the RTÉ Player to claim they provide an overseas television service to the diaspora. They most certainly do not. I will never forget that RTÉ allowed Tara TV into liquidation in 2002 despite a rescue plan from Setanta being in place. When Tara shut we lost RTÉ television from the uk Sky epg and there is no sign yet of a replacement. RTE's track record with the diaspora so far has been utterly shameful.

    I believe RTÉ want to rid themselves of the cost of providing the 252 LW service and switch us abroad over to the Internet, just as they have tried to with TV. The fact that the Department of Communications has been satisfied with the RTÉ player excuse for Diaspora TV has no doubt given RTÉ executives the excuse and encouragement to bin Long Wave.

    But Internet radio isn't free radio in the sense that it costs nothing to receive provided you have to right equipment. Many people have capped Internet services, especially mobile and a couple of hours of Internet Radio will soon chew up that cap. Also if too many people are listening the streams get used up. The All Ireland hurling and football finals or Irish soccer and Rugby internationals have often pushed the RTÉ streams to their limit and people can't listen. A radio service via RF doesn't have that restriction.

    Mobile reception via the Astra satellite is impossible and mobile internet reception is patchy and unreliable. I listen to 252 in my car in London. It's at low power and the Algerian signal on 252 interferes but I can just about listen. It's been suggested that RTÉ should take the vacated 261 kHz frequency and put Radio 1 back on full power. Getting permission from the international authorities would be fairly straightforward and would give us in Britain a reliable signal again.

    Dont forget the original proposal to drop 252 by RTÉ tied in with them losing the tv licence revenue from the over 75s. I believe RTÉ have been using 252 as a stick to beat the government with over funding.

    It would suit RTÉ to claim as Fuzzy Clam does that there are only a few hundred LW listeners in Britain. That is a barefaced lie and I would love to see the research proving that claim.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Logue no2 wrote: »
    It would suit RTÉ to claim as Fuzzy Clam does that a few hundred are LW listeners in Britain. That is a barefaced lie and I would love to see the research proving that claim.

    I'd be curious to see the evidence to the contrary.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Graham wrote: »
    I'd be curious to see the evidence to the contrary.

    The report is linked here: http://www.irishinbritain.org/campaigns/rt


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    so yet another reason why the OP and the LW defenders are talking rubbish really.

    According to someone who obviously hasnt read the post they are quoting letalone the rest of the thread.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Banjoxed wrote: »

    In fairness all that report really shows is that 73% of 3000 people claim to listen to RTE Radio LW on a daily basis. 40% of those 3000 already state that also access radio stations using a computer or laptop.

    The reality is, that is a few hundred listeners.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Graham wrote: »
    In fairness all that report really shows is that 73% of 3000 people claim to listen to RTE Radio LW on a daily basis. 40% of those 3000 already state that also access radio stations using a computer or laptop.

    Maybe they listen online at home and on LW while driving.

    The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Stasi 2.0 wrote:
    Maybe they listen online at home and on LW while driving.


    The act does not stipulate that they should have access to RTE while on the move.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    Maybe they listen online at home and on LW while driving.

    The two are nit necessarily mutually exclusive.

    I didn't suggest they were but it dilutes the poor/elderly/technophobic/expensive-internet justification quite significantly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    It isn't clear the LW is the most wasted expenditure. I think it is a legitimate objective that RTE radio should be capable of reception everywhere in the island of Ireland, without reference to the capabilities of the Internet thereabouts. A definite touch of "I'm alright jack" about some of the comments here.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    It isn't clear the LW is the most wasted expenditure.

    I don't think anyone suggested it was the 'most wasted' expenditure.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Walter2016


    A few years ago and before this Internet thingy was about, RTE broadcast a pop music station Atlantic 252.

    There wasn't any outcry from anyone back then and I don't think lw has seen an increase in use since.

    So no-one missed it before but they will all miss it now???

    Doesn't make sense and as said before, Internet listening is used by most diaspora.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    In much of County Antrim RTE's FM signal is poor to non existent. However in parts of Co. Derry its often stronger than the BBC or local stations
    RTE's transmitter for Derry city and surroundings is located very close to the BBC transmitter for Derry (Holywell Hill for RTE and Sheriff's Mountain for BBC).

    Most of Co. Antrim is a long distance from the border, and as a result, signal from Clermont Carn in Co. Louth is quite weak.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    marno21 wrote: »
    RTE's transmitter for Derry city and surroundings is located very close to the BBC transmitter for Derry (Holywell Hill for RTE and Sheriff's Mountain for BBC).

    Most of Co. Antrim is a long distance from the border, and as a result, signal from Clermont Carn in Co. Louth is quite weak.

    Was thinking more of the county where in places the strongest signal is from Truskmore (quite some distance away) in parts of South Fermanagh the. BBC signal is also surprisingly weak but RTE blasts in.

    In many parts of Belfast RTE on FM is fairly hopeless. (Most of Antrim town is okish probably due to Lough Neagh) it disappears completely well before one hits Larne so most of Co Antrim has to rely on Longwave for mobile/portable listening. Parts of North Down have the same problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 savelongwave


    Some issues raised already re RTE gaining access to UK DAB.

    1) The UK does not want competition and post Brexit does one think things will change ?

    2) When a pirate jammed out RTE MW the authorities shut it down and then licensed Spectrum to continue the wipe out of RTE between the M25 in London.

    3) RTE's attempt in Jan 2015 to access UK DAB Net 2 failed even though there wasn't an initial rush to take up capacity.

    4) Manchester mini DAB was more recently denied access to RTE

    5) A new DAB receiver is unaffordable for thousands of LW listeners and coverage is patchy with many drop outs.

    6) DAB is not available to small scale stations and would mean loss of ownership of their networks to larger operators.

    That proves we must avoid gate keepers and continue service on LW if we want to listen on the move or serve our older Diaspora and the many who enjoy radio free of stuttering drop outs when streams fail.
    No way is internet free. For every stream there must be extra capacity at the server. Broadcast radio is the most efficient method of delivering content being a one to many rather than a one to one service like the internet.
    LW can carry digital (DRM) of FM quality and the LW 252 network is already upgraded. But as in the the early days of DAB receivers were expensive and energy hungry. This is changing with the development of software defined radios - SDR's. that work on open platforms such as the Samsungs Galaxy and demonstrated at this years Amsterdam media show


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    You tell me.

    no you tell us. you made the claim about the listenership not justifying the costs, so it's up to you to back it up

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭david23


    Some issues raised already re RTE gaining access to UK DAB.

    1) The UK does not want competition and post Brexit does one think things will change ?

    2) When a pirate jammed out RTE MW the authorities shut it down and then licensed Spectrum to continue the wipe out of RTE between the M25 in London.

    3) RTE's attempt in Jan 2015 to access UK DAB Net 2 failed even though there wasn't an initial rush to take up capacity.

    4) Manchester mini DAB was more recently denied access to RTE

    5) A new DAB receiver is unaffordable for thousands of LW listeners and coverage is patchy with many drop outs.

    6) DAB is not available to small scale stations and would mean loss of ownership of their networks to larger operators.

    That proves we must avoid gate keepers and continue service on LW if we want to listen on the move or serve our older Diaspora and the many who enjoy radio free of stuttering drop outs when streams fail.
    No way is internet free. For every stream there must be extra capacity at the server. Broadcast radio is the most efficient method of delivering content being a one to many rather than a one to one service like the internet.
    LW can carry digital (DRM) of FM quality and the LW 252 network is already upgraded. But as in the the early days of DAB receivers were expensive and energy hungry. This is changing with the development of software defined radios - SDR's. that work on open platforms such as the Samsungs Galaxy and demonstrated at this years Amsterdam media show

    RTE's January 2015 bid to be on UK national DAB failed because they were part of the losing (L2D) bid for the licence. There were only two bidders, the licence was awarded to the Sound Digital group, and RTE were not part of their line up.

    There are two empty slots available on the national Digital 1 DAB multiplex in the UK, following the departure of Planet Rock, Absolute 80s & Premier Christian Radio (Capital has taken one of them). This multiplex reaches 91% of the UK population, and RTE could lease capacity on this multiplex by negotiating a price with Digital 1's owners Arqiva.

    Nobody outside of RTE knows what happened with the Manchester mini-mux (which is only a low power trial service). RTE were part of the proposed line up but never joined.

    In the UK DAB receivers are now selling for 20 pounds upwards. John Lewis has just launched an own brand kitchen radio for 40 pounds.

    DAB is available to small scale stations in the UK on the new mini muxes, using open source software. There are ten of these being trialled, and legislation for full licences is due to be on the statute book next year.


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