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Advice for Carrauntoohil

12357…10

Comments

  • #122
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    Djoucer wrote: »
    If you start to charge ppl for call outs, people won't call when they need it.

    That was not really what I meant. Who on earth goes out in this weather to climb Carrauntoohil, or any mountain? Surely common sense and a quick weather check should prevent anyone from doing something this stupid. Sorry.


  • #123
    ianobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭ianobrien


    Djoucer wrote: »
    If you start to charge ppl for call outs, people won't call when they need it.

    I know in other countries, if the authorities say that it's too dangerous or declared it closed and you go ahead and need their services, you pay. If they have not said its too dangerous or declared it closed and you do need their services, its free.

    This is the system in Spain and it works.


  • #124
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    Well exactly. "There is a weather warning issued, what are you doing on that mountain? Sorry, but this call out is on you."

    I can fully agree with that.


  • #125
    Djoucer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 620 ✭✭✭Djoucer


    ianobrien wrote: »
    I know in other countries, if the authorities say that it's too dangerous or declared it closed and you go ahead and need their services, you pay. If they have not said its too dangerous or declared it closed and you do need their services, its free.

    This is the system in Spain and it works.


    I think there were attempts to close off Sally Gap during snow/ice but wasn't workable.

    You do have to consider those who will have to rescue you if the **** hits the fan.

    I'm just wary (and weary) of the usual rush to judgment and place blame. Lessons will be learned.

    Kerry MR have put up a video of the rescue. Conditions were brutal.


  • #126
    ianobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭ianobrien


    Djoucer wrote: »
    I think there were attempts to close off Sally Gap during snow/ice but wasn't workable.

    You do have to consider those who will have to rescue you if the **** hits the fan.

    I'm just wary (and weary) of the usual rush to judgment and place blame. Lessons will be learned.

    Kerry MR have put up a video of the rescue. Conditions were brutal.

    They don't have to physically close it, just declare it closed. If they continue and need assistance, they pay. Simple.


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  • #127
    Gone West
    Registered Users Posts: 6,374 ✭✭✭Gone West


    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/man-rescued-from-carrauntoohill-mountain-713430.html
    Be careful out there lads. Looks like some poor decisions were made on the reek today.


  • #128
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    Fuzzy wrote: »
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/man-rescued-from-carrauntoohill-mountain-713430.html
    Be careful out there lads. Looks like some poor decisions were made on the reek today.

    That's what we were discussing ;)


  • #129
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,674 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Poncke wrote: »
    People should pay all damages for their nonsense

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1229/756604-weather-storm-frank/

    Who goes mountain walking in this kind of weather?! Irresponsible !

    You don't know the details. People can get injured in any weather conditions. I wouldn't be too quick to pass judgment here...


  • #130
    icesnowfrost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭icesnowfrost


    I think wen a warning has been issued and people still take the risk of going up carrauntoohil, then it's irresponsible on their behalf. The problem I would have is these people put the kerry mountain rescue team at EXTRA than normal risk of loosing their own life's.


  • #131
    monkeynuz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭monkeynuz


    unkel wrote: »
    You don't know the details. People can get injured in any weather conditions. I wouldn't be too quick to pass judgment here...

    All I can say is we live about 30 feet above sea level not a million miles from there and I didn't even go out driving in it earlier in the day because the weather was absolutely terrible, some of the worst winds we've experienced since moving here, anyone in their right mind would not have gone up a bloody mountain in those conditions.

    People need to be answerable for their own stupidity.


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  • #132
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    unkel wrote: »
    You don't know the details. People can get injured in any weather conditions. I wouldn't be too quick to pass judgment here...

    The details I based my comment on are in the article. So I passed judgement correctly.


  • #133
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,674 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    What details? That it was very wet and very windy? Unless you can tell he broke his ankle because of the weather it really isn't up to you to judge that climber imho...


  • #134
    monkeynuz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭monkeynuz


    unkel wrote: »
    What details? That it was very wet and very windy? Unless you can tell he broke his ankle because of the weather it really isn't up to you to judge that climber imho...

    Whether the conditions played a part or not, 20 members of Kerry mountain rescue had to go up and bring the idiot down in horrific conditions, that alone is disgraceful, they would have known the conditions and potential hazards before they went up but carried on regardless, for that he and the rest of the group should be fined.


  • #135
    falan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    Theres no evidence to say he broke his leg due to weather? rather be up on a open mountain in this weather than a street where slates and the likes could take you out. The mountain rescue want to be out. It's how they get more funding. The more incident s the more funding. Plus the experience is pretty invaluable to them.


  • #136
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,412 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    falan wrote: »
    The mountain rescue want to be out.
    Trust me on this, they really don't.


  • #137
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    unkel wrote: »
    What details? That it was very wet and very windy? Unless you can tell he broke his ankle because of the weather it really isn't up to you to judge that climber imho...

    He put others in danger by going up there, if the weather caused it or not he shouldn't be up there because he is putting others at risk if something goes wrong as it did.


  • #138
    falan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    Alun wrote:
    Trust me on this, they really don't.
    Trust me they do. Source:- one of the top men in one of the busiest mountain rescues in the country. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak.


  • #139
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,412 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    falan wrote: »
    Trust me they do. Source:- one of the top men in one of the busiest mountain rescues in the country. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak.
    I too know several local MRT members here in Wicklow both personally and through my volunteer work with SARDA, and I've never heard any of them wishing they had more call-outs.

    Government funding for MRT's countrywide runs currently at about €250k per year, split amongst the 12 teams. The MRT's themselves have to provide the shortfall of approx. €500k themselves through donations. Any increase in the proportion of that government funding they receive would be small in comparison to what they have to raise themselves.


  • #140
    BarryD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    monkeynuz wrote: »
    Whether the conditions played a part or not, 20 members of Kerry mountain rescue had to go up and bring the idiot down in horrific conditions, that alone is disgraceful, they would have known the conditions and potential hazards before they went up but carried on regardless, for that he and the rest of the group should be fined.

    Hill walking and mountain climbing in general is an adventure sport - I think people need to be reminded of that now and then. You take on challenges within your known limits and make judgement calls as you go along.

    I know nothing of the background of this group that got into difficulty. If they were very inexperienced, you might be a touch critical in that they should have taken more note of the forecast.

    But if they were any way experienced in hill walking in Ireland, they had every right to take on the challenges of an adventure sport and accept the consequences if things went wrong. In this case, the use of word 'idiot' is completely inappropriate imho. We don't want to be living in a nanny state when it comes to adventure sports, with agencies telling people what they can and cannot do.


  • #141
    falan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    Alun wrote:
    I too know several local MRT members here in Wicklow both personally and through my volunteer work with SARDA, and I've never heard any of them wishing they had more call-outs.


    I spend every single day either up mountains or in rivers as a career. I recently did a wilderness first aid course ran by one of the fellas in the mountain rescues you speak of. He has ran courses all over the place in rescue techniques and probably taught your friends. Not to mention all the other people I know and interact with everyday who have many years experience in the outdoors.


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  • #142
    falan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    BarryD wrote:
    But if they were any way experienced in hill walking in Ireland, they had every right to take on the challenges of an adventure sport and accept the consequences if things went wrong. In this case, the use of word 'idiot' is completely inappropriate imho. We don't want to be living in a nanny state when it comes to adventure sports, with agencies telling people what they can and cannot do.
    Bang on. I have to log so many hikes with mountaineering ireland in all weather's. I climbed the galtees at night during the last storm. I felt safer up there among experienced people than I would on the street.i would not advise inexperienced people who cannot navigate to do it.


  • #143
    monkeynuz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭monkeynuz


    BarryD wrote: »
    Hill walking and mountain climbing in general is an adventure sport - I think people need to be reminded of that now and then. You take on challenges within your known limits and make judgement calls as you go along.

    I know nothing of the background of this group that got into difficulty. If they were very inexperienced, you might be a touch critical in that they should have taken more note of the forecast.

    But if they were any way experienced in hill walking in Ireland, they had every right to take on the challenges of an adventure sport and accept the consequences if things went wrong. In this case, the use of word 'idiot' is completely inappropriate imho. We don't want to be living in a nanny state when it comes to adventure sports, with agencies telling people what they can and cannot do.

    As a consequence of these people (not idiots) 20 members of kmrt were required to go and rescue this adventurous person (not idiot)

    In my opinion these people are idiots, I am all for people being adventurous and having fun but there is a limit, the weather was exceptionally bad, one of the worst storms since we moved here 9 years ago, it is not adventurous to put yourself in danger in those conditions, no one can truly be prepared for the weather we had yesterday some of the gusts alone were very violent.

    If a sailor with years experience had gone out yesterday and needed the rnli to rescue him I would have also called him an idiot, or someone who tries to wade their 4x4 through floodwater and gets into trouble again would be an idiot.

    I don't need any in depth information about the individual's circumstances, he shouldn't have been up there.


  • #144
    falan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    There's no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing :- Ranulph Fiennes


  • #145
    monkeynuz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭monkeynuz


    falan wrote: »
    There's no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing :- Ranulph Fiennes

    Because appropriate clothing will help with 75mph gusts on a mountain top.


  • #146
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Experienced mountaineers and hillwalkers would tend to run through a checklist before going

    1) Sense check - Yes, there may be a reason for going up in this weather -e.g. for training purposes. However, this needs to be balanced with a rescue plan - can I self rescue or will I put others in danger if I get into trouble and need a rescue. Where's the large party I need with me if one goes flat or injured. MRT may be otherwise tasked or unavailable, or comms may be out and you need lots of fallback options

    If you can't answer the above or don't have good answers there you're just another overconfident prat on the mountain causing problems for others.


  • #147
    falan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    monkeynuz wrote:
    Because appropriate clothing will help with 75mph gusts on a mountain top.

    At least with appropriate clothing you'll be drying as the rain is hitting you. :-D
    When I/we go hiking as a group there is always a plan. If hillwalking at night then a text will be sent to one of the lads in the local MR team detailing van Reg etc in case someone sees the van parked up and panics. We always have an escape route and a plan.


  • #148
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,206 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I was on inch beach, not too far from carauntoohil yesterday morning 10:30, before the storm came in proper. The wind was so strong you could barely stand up in the gusts and that's at sea level. I would imagine it would have been easy to be blown off the mountain yesterday no matter what your experience. These climbers not only endangered themselves but also the rescue team by going out in that yesterday. And they were well warned.


  • #149
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    falan wrote: »
    Theres no evidence to say he broke his leg due to weather? rather be up on a open mountain in this weather than a street where slates and the likes could take you out. The mountain rescue want to be out. It's how they get more funding. The more incident s the more funding. Plus the experience is pretty invaluable to them.

    So by your warped and twisted logic the idiot that needed to be rescued on the mountain were doing the kerry mountain rescue a favour by having an accident and therefor increase the funding over normal funding (which btw you and I have to pay for).

    That has to be one of the most bizarre and twisted pieces of logic i have ever heard and it's very dangerous too.

    I suppose you also believe the the scouts that went on to the rocks in hook head were within their rights and that the incident will help the funding of the rescue services (which did a great job btw)! That poor girl was only new into the scouts and that was also madness.

    I agree with the suggestion that people pay in cases where they have been warned about a storm, fair enough other times of the year an accident can happen in "normal" circumstances.

    I also think that these groups that end up needing rescue in these storm circumstances should be named and shamed. It should be similar to drink driving in peoples attitudes to these people.


  • #150
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    Poncke wrote: »
    People should pay all damages for their nonsense

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1229/756604-weather-storm-frank/

    Who goes mountain walking in this kind of weather?! Irresponsible !

    I agree.


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  • #151
    BarryD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    Look if you want to be 'safe' just go for a walk in the local town park. People will always want to challenge themselves for various reasons, just for the thrill of it, to gain experience etc. The key thing is taking personal responsibility for the consequences, even if that includes serious injury and/or death. No one should expect to have a 'right' to be rescued if they take on more risk than they should, no MRT team should have to go out in conditions that they deem unacceptable. But nonetheless that should never stop people from taking on challenges and taking personal responsibility for them. Mountain Rescue should be looked upon as a service (voluntary or otherwise) that might and I stress might be able to help out, if things go pear shaped, but without any guarantees of availability.


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