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Tax Calculation Thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,726 ✭✭✭✭Paul Tergat


    I've a quick question I am hoping someone will know the answer to.

    Say someone earns €27k p.a. and therefore is being taxed at the lower rate. They are €483 below the threshold every month. Halfway through the year they begin doing OT that every month now pulls them into the higher band.... at what point is that €483 over the first 6 months of the year factored in? Is it all balanced out at year end or will it be absorbed in the first couple of months that OT is being done? (i.e. some of the earnings over the €2,733 per month threshold will be taxed at a lower rate at this point?)

    Same question if someone gets a payrise halfway through the year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Daniogroove


    I've a quick question I am hoping someone will know the answer to.

    Say someone earns €27k p.a. and therefore is being taxed at the lower rate. They are €483 below the threshold every month. Halfway through the year they begin doing OT that every month now pulls them into the higher band.... at what point is that €483 over the first 6 months of the year factored in? Is it all balanced out at year end or will it be absorbed in the first couple of months that OT is being done? (i.e. some of the earnings over the €2,733 per month threshold will be taxed at a lower rate at this point?)

    Same question if someone gets a payrise halfway through the year.

    To the best of my knowledge your wages at each pay frequency is assumed to be the same for all remaining frequencies of the year. So once you start OT and it puts you in the higher bracket you pay the appropriate tax. Now, if you don't earn enough in the remaining six months to keep you on average in the higher bracket then you will be able to request a p21 balancing statement in the new year and get any extra tax refunded.. but you'll still have to pay tax on the extra income but at the lower rate so don't expect a big cheque..

    I could be wrong so anyone wants to correct me belt ahead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,726 ✭✭✭✭Paul Tergat


    To the best of my knowledge your wages at each pay frequency is assumed to be the same for all remaining frequencies of the year. So once you start OT and it puts you in the higher bracket you pay the appropriate tax. Now, if you don't earn enough in the remaining six months to keep you on average in the higher bracket then you will be able to request a p21 balancing statement in the new year and get any extra tax refunded.. but you'll still have to pay tax on the extra income but at the lower rate so don't expect a big cheque..

    I could be wrong so anyone wants to correct me belt ahead.

    Cheers for the response. I dunno if im being dim here but using my example, say first 6 months of the year at €27k its taxing €2250 at the lower rate. Each of those 6 months has a spare €483 = €2898.

    Lets just say from them on gross per month shoots up to €6k - does that spare €2898 get added onto this month 7, i.e. taxing €5,631 at the lower rate with balance at higher rate? Or does it just ignore the previous €2898 and calculate as an independent month to all be balanced out at the end of the year?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Cheers for the response. I dunno if im being dim here but using my example, say first 6 months of the year at €27k its taxing €2250 at the lower rate. Each of those 6 months has a spare €483 = €2898.

    Lets just say from them on gross per month shoots up to €6k - does that spare €2898 get added onto this month 7, i.e. taxing €5,631 at the lower rate with balance at higher rate? Or does it just ignore the previous €2898 and calculate as an independent month to all be balanced out at the end of the year?

    It washes through payroll during the year (i.e. no need to balance / do a P21 at year end).


  • Registered Users Posts: 59,513 ✭✭✭✭namenotavailablE


    My Excel tax calculator helps with this type of query and is linked in my signature below. If you're on mobile and can't see the signature it's at http://taxcalc.eu/monthlyss but the spreadsheet probably won't work effectively on mobile due to the use of macro code.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,260 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    This might seem silly to some but filling out a form 12 for a small rental income in 2013 and the rent for January 2014 was received on December 29th 2013, do I account for this in 2013 or 2014?

    Edit: Got through to Revenue and as it was received in 2013, it's declared in 2013.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Cuileannach


    Hi guys,
    Have just read the warning at the top of this thread which makes it clear that people arent too happy with people checking their tax calculations on Boards.ie However after spending the last 5hrs ringing people and googling i just want to ask a general question. Im not a business I was a student in 2013 I can hardly ask an accountant to do it for me!!!

    Anyway I was just wondering if someone who earns roughly 15000 between PAYE and additional income has to pay 20% tax on all of this (including jobseeker benefit, and PAYE where it was decided that I earned too little to pay tax??) Im awfully confused and my tax return is due Friday. I seem to owe over €1000 in tax where last year when I did this they owed me over a grand- v confused!!
    Im also definitely never doing free lance work ever again its not worth how upset, sick and confused these forms are making me.
    Regards,
    An Cuileannach


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,069 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Hi guys,
    Have just read the warning at the top of this thread which makes it clear that people arent too happy with people checking their tax calculations on Boards.ie However after spending the last 5hrs ringing people and googling i just want to ask a general question. Im not a business I was a student in 2013 I can hardly ask an accountant to do it for me!!!

    Anyway I was just wondering if someone who earns roughly 15000 between PAYE and additional income has to pay 20% tax on all of this (including jobseeker benefit, and PAYE where it was decided that I earned too little to pay tax??) Im awfully confused and my tax return is due Friday. I seem to owe over €1000 in tax where last year when I did this they owed me over a grand- v confused!!
    Im also definitely never doing free lance work ever again its not worth how upset, sick and confused these forms are making me.
    Regards,
    An Cuileannach

    Break it down. How much self employed income, how much PAYE income in 2013? How much taxable jobseekers benefit?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Hi guys,
    Have just read the warning at the top of this thread which makes it clear that people arent too happy with people checking their tax calculations on Boards.ie However after spending the last 5hrs ringing people and googling i just want to ask a general question. Im not a business I was a student in 2013 I can hardly ask an accountant to do it for me!!!

    Anyway I was just wondering if someone who earns roughly 15000 between PAYE and additional income has to pay 20% tax on all of this (including jobseeker benefit, and PAYE where it was decided that I earned too little to pay tax??) Im awfully confused and my tax return is due Friday. I seem to owe over €1000 in tax where last year when I did this they owed me over a grand- v confused!!
    Im also definitely never doing free lance work ever again its not worth how upset, sick and confused these forms are making me.
    Regards,
    An Cuileannach

    Prsi 4%
    Usc 2% on 10036
    4% on the next 5980
    paye 20% on all income anfter you get that figure subtract your tax credits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭rahmalec


    Prsi 4%
    Usc 2% on 10036
    4% on the next 5980
    paye 20% on all income anfter you get that figure subtract your tax credits.

    And before doing any of this take away your expenses that you had to do your freelance work :-)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Cuileannach


    Thanks guys. I wont be able to say I had any expenses in my freelance. Apart from internet (which I shared with housemates) I didnt have any.
    So my income was

    Subbing: 3686.71 (paid 0 tax)
    Summer Camps: 2041.6 (paid 0 tax)
    Freelancing: 7820
    Jobseekers benefit: 1682.20 (1812.20 - €13x 10 weeks=130 euro nontaxable)
    Income Total: 15230.51


    Prsi 4% 0f 7820 = 312.80
    Usc 2% on 10036 = 200.72
    4% on the next 5325.51 - 212.98
    paye 20% on all income : (20% of 15230.51)= 3046.10
    andafter you get that figure subtract your tax credits.
    3046.10 - Tax Credits: 3500 = -453.9

    Then I have paid witheld tax of €1360, am I owed 1360 back?

    Also if I paid my college fees for a semester that January do I put that in?
    Sorry for all the detail Im just so bad at calculating this and I really appreciate the help!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Cuileannach


    Thanks guys. I wont be able to say I had any expenses in my freelance. Apart from internet (which I shared with housemates) I didnt have any.
    So my income was

    Subbing: 3686.71 (paid 0 tax)
    Summer Camps: 2041.6 (paid 0 tax)
    Freelancing: 7820
    Jobseekers benefit: 1682.20 (1812.20 - €13x 10 weeks=130 euro nontaxable)
    Income Total: 15230.51


    Prsi 4% 0f 7820 = 312.80
    Usc 2% on 10036 = 200.72
    4% on the next 5325.51 - 212.98
    paye 20% on all income : (20% of 15230.51)= 3046.10
    andafter you get that figure subtract your tax credits.
    3046.10 - Tax Credits: 3500 = -453.9

    Then I have paid witheld tax of €1360, am I owed 1360 back- can I take my PRSI and USC from this

    Also if I paid my college fees for a semester that January do I put that in?
    Sorry for all the detail Im just so bad at calculating this and I really appreciate the help!


  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭rahmalec


    Thanks guys. I wont be able to say I had any expenses in my freelance. Apart from internet (which I shared with housemates) I didnt have any.
    So my income was

    Subbing: 3686.71 (paid 0 tax)
    Summer Camps: 2041.6 (paid 0 tax)
    Freelancing: 7820
    Jobseekers benefit: 1682.20 (1812.20 - €13x 10 weeks=130 euro nontaxable)
    Income Total: 15230.51


    Prsi 4% 0f 7820 = 312.80
    Usc 2% on 10036 = 200.72
    4% on the next 5325.51 - 212.98
    paye 20% on all income : (20% of 15230.51)= 3046.10
    andafter you get that figure subtract your tax credits.
    3046.10 - Tax Credits: 3500 = -453.9

    Then I have paid witheld tax of €1360, am I owed 1360 back- can I take my PRSI and USC from this

    Also if I paid my college fees for a semester that January do I put that in?
    Sorry for all the detail Im just so bad at calculating this and I really appreciate the help!

    Were the summer camps and subbing put through payroll or did you have to invoice for them? (ie, were they self employed stuff or paye?).


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Cuileannach


    The summer camps and subbing were PAYE, I paid USC but I didnt pay any tax.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Sounds like you're not claiming the PAYE tax credit (which you're entitled too).

    Note that to get tax relief, you need to be paying tax...


  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭rahmalec


    Thanks guys. I wont be able to say I had any expenses in my freelance. Apart from internet (which I shared with housemates) I didnt have any.
    So my income was

    Subbing: 3686.71 (paid 0 tax)
    Summer Camps: 2041.6 (paid 0 tax)
    Freelancing: 7820
    Jobseekers benefit: 1682.20 (1812.20 - €13x 10 weeks=130 euro nontaxable)
    Income Total: 15230.51


    Prsi 4% 0f 7820 = 312.80
    Usc 2% on 10036 = 200.72
    4% on the next 5325.51 - 212.98
    paye 20% on all income : (20% of 15230.51)= 3046.10
    andafter you get that figure subtract your tax credits.
    3046.10 - Tax Credits: 3500 = -453.9

    Then I have paid witheld tax of €1360, am I owed 1360 back- can I take my PRSI and USC from this

    Also if I paid my college fees for a semester that January do I put that in?
    Sorry for all the detail Im just so bad at calculating this and I really appreciate the help!

    So if it's jobseekers benefit and not allowance you were claiming, then it's taxable except for the first €13 each week (which you've done already). Also, you can claim the paye tax credit for this (unless it has been used already).

    So, let's lump all your taxable "paye" income together including the jsb: 3686.71 + 2041.6 + 1682.20 = 7410.51
    Freelance income: 7820.00
    Total: 15230.51

    The PRSI payed on the paye income is totally separate and, I think but not too sure, that you can't get it back.

    -USC: 200.72 (2% of 10036) + 207.78 (4% of [15230.51-10036])
    -PRSI: For self-employed income over 5000, minimum €500 (so this would be you here). Note that this would count as 52 contributions for the state pension.
    -Income tax: 20% of total earnings = 3046.10, but you get a 1482.10 paye credit (20% of paye earnings up to max 1650) and a personal credit of 1564 (20% of remaining earnings up to 1650 again). So answer is 0!
    Total: 908.50

    Seriously, you have no expenses at all? Google what kind of freelancing you did and what the usual expenses are. Make sure to keep the receipts.

    Have you registered for ROS? You have another 2 weeks if you have, and it calculates it all for you there.
    If you have 1360 withheld, you'll get a refund (1360 - 908.50).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    Quick one folks. Just going through income/expenses and the likes.

    I went back to uni last year, so could I include the first term fees as an expense. The course will after all be of benefit to me professionally.....

    As I went back full time, I didn't earn a whole pile.

    A question: can I include VHi in my expenses, or does that fall under a specific category.

    Total income (from two different strands = €12,380
    Expenses (petrol, phone, internet, uni fees, work related stuff etc = €7039

    So I only made about €5K. Not sure how much tax I would pay on this....


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Alan Shore


    seachto7 wrote: »
    I went back to uni last year, so could I include the first term fees as an expense. The course will after all be of benefit to me professionally.....

    A question: can I include VHi in my expenses, or does that fall under a specific category.

    How does your uni fees meet the "wholly and exclusively" test for business expenses?

    You already get a tax credit for VHI but either way it would not be deductible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    Ok, I didn't include the VHI, so that's that answered. I don't get you with the "wholly and exclusively"? What I studied would relate to what I was doing freelance. As in, could I put it down as an expense...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    seachto7 wrote: »
    Quick one folks. Just going through income/expenses and the likes.

    I went back to uni last year, so could I include the first term fees as an expense. The course will after all be of benefit to me professionally.....

    As I went back full time, I didn't earn a whole pile.

    A question: can I include VHi in my expenses, or does that fall under a specific category.

    Total income (from two different strands = €12,380
    Expenses (petrol, phone, internet, uni fees, work related stuff etc = €7039

    So I only made about €5K. Not sure how much tax I would pay on this....

    Are you disallowing personal use for phone etc?

    If the fees are for a course that clearly relates to your trade then I'd be happy enough to claim a deduction for them.

    VHI is relieved at source so is irrelevant and not deductible.

    You'll pay no tax.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 987 ✭✭✭rosboy


    Hey guys.

    Quick question. I'm filling in my form 11 online, and can't figure out where to fill in the details for PRSI. I own a limited company, so it's just that income that I'm declaring. I've trawled through the form several times, and can't find the box to input it. I'm assuming it's on the PAYE/BIK/Pensions tab where I fill in my USC details, but can't find where to input the PRSI...any advise is greatly welcomed.

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭premier10


    rosboy wrote: »
    Hey guys.

    Quick question. I'm filling in my form 11 online, and can't figure out where to fill in the details for PRSI. I own a limited company, so it's just that income that I'm declaring. I've trawled through the form several times, and can't find the box to input it. I'm assuming it's on the PAYE/BIK/Pensions tab where I fill in my USC details, but can't find where to input the PRSI...any advise is greatly welcomed.

    Thanks.

    There is no box,
    You don't enter it


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    premier10 wrote: »
    There is no box,
    You don't enter it

    Except for the new "self assessment" section (which is a joke)...


  • Registered Users Posts: 987 ✭✭✭rosboy


    premier10 wrote: »
    There is no box,
    You don't enter it

    Thanks for the answer premier10.

    When I get to the calculate page, it shows a PRSI field with a zero value. I would have thought that if I didn't have to enter it, it wouldn't show a PRSI field?


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭premier10


    That field appears for everyone on the calculate page regardless, some are blank and some have a figure, - based on the income details entered normally class S Prsi


  • Registered Users Posts: 987 ✭✭✭rosboy


    premier10 wrote: »
    That field appears for everyone on the calculate page regardless, some are blank and some have a figure, - based on the income details entered normally class S Prsi

    Thanks premier10.

    I'm S1 class, so on the IT Self Assessment Page at the end its showing as 0. Do I leave it that way, or adjust the B column figure and add a note explaining it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭premier10


    Column A will not show a figure if this amount is not due, if there is an amount due then you enter it on Column B and a note. It would be unusual for ros to calculate a zero if you say you owe prsi. Make sure all your entries are correct first


  • Registered Users Posts: 987 ✭✭✭rosboy


    premier10 wrote: »
    Column A will not show a figure if this amount is not due, if there is an amount due then you enter it on Column B and a note. It would be unusual for ros to calculate a zero if you say you owe prsi. Make sure all your entries are correct first

    Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake. This is my first return that I'm filing, so trying to figure it out.

    On my P35 for the year, I was liable for PRSI. I paid this. I also paid my USC and PAYE

    On the form 11, there is a place where I put in the USC and PAYE I paid, but nowhere to put the PRSI.

    So does that mean I need to enter it in column B or not?

    Sorry again about all the stupid questions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭premier10


    No you don't enter the prsi figure at all, because you are entering salaried income that's why it's 0, so leave as zero.

    I misread you as well, i assumed your income was self employed trade, not director salary.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 987 ✭✭✭rosboy


    premier10 wrote: »
    No you don't enter the prsi figure at all, because you are entering salaried income that's why it's 0, so leave as zero.

    I misread you as well, i assumed your income was self employed trade, not director salary.



    Great. Thanks for the help premier10. Appreciate it.


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