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16-05-2019, 21:59   #151
steddyeddy
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Originally Posted by eviltwin View Post
It was a weird random thing to add, I don't see the relevance tbh
To be honest ET the only weird and random things are the posts that think it weird or random that a struggling mother of four is praised.
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16-05-2019, 22:08   #152
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To be honest ET the only weird and random things are the posts that think it weird or random that a struggling mother of four is praised.
I agree with you eddy. When I read your post I thought much the same as some other posters here, that it has no relevance to this thread. Now I think differently. Managing to obtain a PhD while bringing up your children is quite the feat and a positive story. Parents in education can struggle with feelings of guilt and overwhelm, I've seen it happen. It's not fair to assume they are superwoman, instead they could be battling through their own issues.
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16-05-2019, 22:13   #153
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I am posting in a thread about a woman I know who did one of the most stressful things you can do with four kids. The thread I'm posting in is about mothers who are on the edge mentally. Why the attacking attitude?
In all fairness doing a Ph D may well be stressful , but in the grandscheme of things is it one of the most stressful things ?
Then I have years of experience of mothers who have seriousely sick children on Oncology wards with three or four other kids to look after and organise
They have no choice to handle that stress and carry on .
Mothers who juggle four kids while looking after a highly dependent child with multiple needs .
Mothers who struggle with very ill health and in pain and yet get three or four kids out to school washed , dressed and fed
They are all incredible amazing women who do this daily , weekly, yearly

Fair play to the women who did a PhD and not taking away from it but is it really up there in the grand scheme of stress ?
Maybe it was for her and she had serious struggles . I can't judge that on what we know about her though

Last edited by iamwhoiam; 16-05-2019 at 22:28.
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16-05-2019, 22:44   #154
One eyed Jack
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In all fairness doing a Ph D may well be stressful , but in the grandscheme of things is it one of the most streesful things ?
Then I have years of experience of mothers who have seriousely sick children on Oncology wards with three or four other kids to look after and organise
They have no choice to handle that stress and carry on .
Mothers who juggle four kids while looking after a highly dependent child with multiple needs .
Mothers who struggle with very ill health and in pain and yet get three or four kids out to school washed , dressed and fed
They are all incredible amazing women who do this daily , weekly, yearly

Fair play to the women who did a PhD and not taking away from it but is it really up there in the grand scheme of stress ?
Maybe it was for her and she had serious struggles . I can't judge that on what we know about her though

I think we can actually judge her on what we know about her, and society does, which is kinda the point in making a documentary about the hidden mental torture behind mothers who feel like they aren’t meeting society’s expectations of bonding with their children and all the “positive” (for want of a better word) stereotypes.

Even in your own post above, it’s unintentional on your part because I don’t think you do it deliberately, but you’re able to relate to women whom you see as suffering incredibly and how they manage in spite of their suffering. A woman achieving a PhD? Nah, hardly all that stressful, is it? Not in those words exactly, but you’re playing it down because you don’t imagine she experienced a whole lot of suffering, and if you can’t see it, you can’t make a judgment as to whether or not she is worthy of the same praise you heaped upon the mothers whom you do see suffering.

One of the reasons I won’t watch programmes like the documentary in question (and there are many reasons besides just Theroux’s insincerity and hamming it up for the cameras to evoke emotion in his audience), is because my wife went through it when our child was born. She still goes through it today 14 years later, but in recent years she was incredibly fortunate to have a psychiatrist whom she is able to relate to in ways we simply couldn’t relate to each other and the difference in her mood, her attitude, her outlook on life and her relationship with our son and even our relationship (we’re separated now but things are working out much better for everyone involved) has improved measurably.

I can say fair play to her, and I can say fair play to a woman for achieving a PhD, I don’t compare them, because they aren’t comparable. I often get the feeling that some women regard motherhood as a competitive sport, and I can understand why they do it, because they learn from the society they grow up in that no matter what else they achieve in life, they as women will always be defined by their ability to reproduce and nurture their children. When they don’t have that instant connection during pregnancy it’s tough. When they give birth and they’re still not feeling something they expected to experience all their lives, then things can turn to shìt really really fast, because in their minds they have failed at the most fundamental thing that is supposedly innate in every woman - the ability to bond with and nurture those who are regarded as the most vulnerable in society.
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16-05-2019, 22:55   #155
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I think we can actually judge her on what we know about her, and society does, which is kinda the point in making a documentary about the hidden mental torture behind mothers who feel like they aren’t meeting society’s expectations of bonding with their children and all the “positive” (for want of a better word) stereotypes.

Even in your own post above, it’s unintentional on your part because I don’t think you do it deliberately, but you’re able to relate to women whom you see as suffering incredibly and how they manage in spite of their suffering. A woman achieving a PhD? Nah, hardly all that stressful, is it? Not in those words exactly, but you’re playing it down because you don’t imagine she experienced a whole lot of suffering, and if you can’t see it, you can’t make a judgment as to whether or not she is worthy of the same praise you heaped upon the mothers whom you do see suffering.

One of the reasons I won’t watch programmes like the documentary in question (and there are many reasons besides just Theroux’s insincerity and hamming it up for the cameras to evoke emotion in his audience), is because my wife went through it when our child was born.ety.
I am sorry your wife suffered such pain and honestly hope she finds peace and all the help she needs


Maybe my point with the comparison of the PhD woman and those I mentioned was the doing a PhD may be very stressful but its by choice . Many have no choice or no end in sight
I am not dismissing the PhD but just can't put it up there as one of the most stressful one can do while raising four kids
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16-05-2019, 22:56   #156
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No, I'm not going to accept that all stress is equally awful : studying and working and/or raising children is stressful, and some people may even break down under the strain, but theres a huge difference between anything that you have chosen to do, and can stop at any point as well, and something like a cancer diagnosis for you or someone you're caring for. The person can't just get up one morning and say "That's it I've had enough" - and they know they can't. And that makes all the difference.

I know all sorts of things play into a breakdown, so I'm not dismissing that in any way. Once it happens, it has to be coped with whatever the cause. But I don't think it's fair to say that that means the two situations are the same. As I imagine you probably know from your own experience as the partner or ex partner of someone who was unable to care for themselves at some point.

Last edited by volchitsa; 16-05-2019 at 23:01.
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16-05-2019, 23:19   #157
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I am sorry your wife suffered such pain and honestly hope she finds peace and all the help she needs


Maybe my point with the comparison of the PhD woman and those I mentioned was the doing a PhD may be very stressful but its by choice . Many have no choice or no end in sight
I am not dismissing the PhD but just can't put it up there as one of the most stressful one can do while raising four kids

Sure, I get that you’re not dismissing a woman achieving a PhD and that you see it as a choice she made and all the rest of it. I would say that whatever anyone else sees as someone else having a choice or not in anything, has no bearing on whether the person themselves feels they have no choice in the circumstances in which they find themselves, or in what they feel they need to do.

If someone feels they have no choice but to do a PhD, then anyone telling them they have a choice may have better luck talking to the wall. Choice isn’t the determining factor of a positive outcome, support is. It’s easy to tell someone they have choices, it’s a hell of a lot more difficult to understand why they don’t see their circumstances the same way you do, or anyone else does.

I get that you wouldn’t put it up there with raising four children while dying of terminal cancer for example, I’ve witnessed a mother in her 30s with five children wither in the space of a year before she died, and it was harrowing. I’ve witnessed a young woman who dreamt all her life of being a teacher and it was the only thing she wanted to do, experience a mental breakdown and drop out of college and she has never recovered. She isn’t aware she has choices. I am, but she’s not, so the idea of well it’s not the same because we can see one person has choices and we can’t see the other person has choices - that’s still predicated upon how we’re thinking and what we’re seeing, when the whole point of mental illness and ill mental health is that we can’t possibly be aware of another person’s thoughts or how they perceive themselves or their experiences. That’s why people often hide it, because they’re aware by observation of other people what could happen to them if they don’t - effectively they have no choice but to hide how they’re feeling for fear of having the one thing that means everything to them taken away from them.
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16-05-2019, 23:28   #158
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My wife is pregnant, at one of the appointments there was a part that I wasn't in with her for. She was asked was she safe in her home, apparently standard a question. Fair enough I'm not the patient in their care however my unborn son is. Surely they should have asked me how she was coping, is she drinking or smoking.

No your wife is the patient until your son is born.
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20-05-2019, 07:23   #159
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Guys I feel you're way off the mark here. By praising one mother I admire I'm not putting down others. The woman was doing a PhD and gave birth to kids during that time. The stress she suffered was unbelievable. A PhD is one of the most stressful things you can do and she certainly experienced stress, depression and guilt that she was making life harder on her kids. I gave her a little boost because she was inspiring to me. How can that be taken as a bad thing towards anyone else?
All while trying to make their lives better, absolutely commendable. Definitely have to agree with another poster who pointed out that mothers can indeed give each other a hard time with regards to competition. This is very relevant, because one of the women in the program pointed out the "Instagram pressure" she was very much influenced by.

Some people seem to think that only the women who show up to school in pyjamas should be worried about, not the ones who are over achieving to the max and are far tougher on themselves. Everyone deserves equal support and not just what we deem as a "worthy" struggle.
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