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11-06-2019, 12:15   #1
DrPhilG
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LGBT and Islam

I've been scolded out of the Pride month thread for derailing it (apologies) so I'll ask here.

First off, this is a legitimate question, I'm not looking to bash/condemn anyone in the LGBTQ community, and I'm not looking to condemn Muslims or Islam.

I'm just genuinely curious about why there has been an increase, often at LGBTQ marches etc, of support shown by that community, towards the Muslim community.



I'm not saying that supporting one another and speaking out against bigotry and homoohobia together is a bad thing. I'm just surprised that the LGBTQ community support Islam, but condemn Christianity.

I can totally understand them condemning both, as both religions teach that homosexuality is wrong/sinful. I just don't get why one is supported and the other is not.

Again, this is a genuine question that I'm curious about so please don't drag it down to a mud slinging match.
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11-06-2019, 12:16   #2
FaxingBerlin
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You said it.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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11-06-2019, 12:19   #3
Princess Consuela Bananahammock
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It's because both communities have a recent history of suffering intolerance, bigotry and hyperbolic media persecution. Islam, obviously, more recently than the LGBT community.

In any case, the idea that Muslims automatically agree with Sharia law and want to implement it in western society is absolute bull**** to anyone who spends even a little time informing themselves by actually spending time with Muslims and talking to them, rather than reading tabloids and listening to right-wing podcasts; as most people, while being devout (to either religion) aren't as homophobic as a lot of people would like us to think.

Last edited by Princess Consuela Bananahammock; 11-06-2019 at 12:23.
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11-06-2019, 12:21   #4
c.p.w.g.w
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OP makes a valid point.

Christianity considers homosexuality as a sin, not much will happen as a result in Christian dominant countries(aside from maybe a little ignorance)

Islam considers homosexuality as a sin and can get you put to death as a result in many islam dominant countries, jailed or deported(at best).

Yet the Christians are the enemies...

I'm of no faith in the interest of full disclosure
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11-06-2019, 12:21   #5
Lehiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Consuela Bananahammock View Post
It's because both communities have a recent history of suffering intolerance, bigotry and hyperbolic media persecution. Islam, obviously, more recently than the LGBT community.
Why is the solidarity not reciprocated by the Islamic world though?
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11-06-2019, 12:25   #6
Mickeroo
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You can condemn a person's beliefs and still condemn bigotry/discrimination directed at that person because of their beliefs. Pretty basic stuff I would have thought.
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11-06-2019, 12:25   #7
Princess Consuela Bananahammock
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Why is the solidarity not reciprocated by the Islamic world though?
How sure are you that it isn't? Just because they don't have a parade doesn't mean they don't reciprocate.

In any case, it's a question you'd have to ask them directly.
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11-06-2019, 12:26   #8
nozzferrahhtoo
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As a long term critic of religion one of the things I have experience personally is that they have successfully conflated the Religion and the people with Islam in a way that was tried with Christianity but was never as successful.

When I make a strong criticism of Christianity the worst knee jerk nonsense I tend to get back is "They have a right to their belief/opinion".

Often if I do the same with Islam however I get described as a bigot or racist. Because people have in some places been sold this idea that an attack on that religion is some kind of attack on the people of a different skin colour who follow that religion.

And many times in the media people like Sam Harris (I think he had to do it in his collision with Batman.... sorry Ben Afleck...... but he certainly has had to do it a few times) has had to specifically unpack that idea and point out that he is not at all being racist in denigrating the Islamic religion.

Now I have no idea to be honest if this difference in narrative is a partial explanation for what the OP describes, but I would not be surprised.

There are many problems with Islam and good reasons to think it a worse and more dangerous religion in our world than many others. And making that distinction between religions is NOT racism or an attack on a minority group.
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11-06-2019, 12:26   #9
Sonics2k
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Originally Posted by Mickeroo View Post
You can condemn a person's beliefs and still condemn bigotry/discrimination directed at that person because of their beliefs. Pretty basic stuff I would have thought.
It's absolutely astonishing that people can't grasp this.

You can abhor the religious beliefs of a group of people, but you can also detest the discrimination they face too.

It's really not a hard subject to discuss.
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11-06-2019, 12:26   #10
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Probably because one community which suffers discrimination and hatred can empathise with other demographics who experience the same.
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11-06-2019, 12:27   #11
One eyed Jack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhilG View Post
I'm not saying that supporting one another and speaking out against bigotry and homoohobia together is a bad thing. I'm just surprised that the LGBTQ community support Islam, but condemn Christianity.

I can totally understand them condemning both, as both religions teach that homosexuality is wrong/sinful. I just don't get why one is supported and the other is not.

Again, this is a genuine question that I'm curious about so please don't drag it down to a mud slinging match.

It’s a fair bit more nuanced than simply appearing to support one religion and not the other. The facts are that simply by virtue of the numbers of Muslims and Christians there are, a significant percentage of both Muslims and Christians are also either lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. There are also plenty of adherents of both religions who disagree with the opinions of the people who claim to represent them, or they disagree that what those people are saying represents either Islam or Christianity from their perspective.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think the small group in that photo represent the opinions of the all the people they claim to represent either.
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11-06-2019, 12:29   #12
El_Duderino 09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhilG View Post

I'm just genuinely curious about why there has been an increase, often at LGBTQ marches etc, of support shown by that community, towards the Muslim community.

I'm not saying that supporting one another and speaking out against bigotry and homoohobia together is a bad thing. I'm just surprised that the LGBTQ community support Islam, but condemn Christianity.
Does the LGBT community take positions on religions?

I personally think both islam and Christianity are ridiculous. But if someone wants to discriminate against Christians or Muslims or as by other group, then I'll oppose them. That doesn't mean I like islam or Christianity.
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11-06-2019, 12:31   #13
touts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhilG View Post
I've been scolded out of the Pride month thread for derailing it (apologies) so I'll ask here.

First off, this is a legitimate question, I'm not looking to bash/condemn anyone in the LGBTQ community, and I'm not looking to condemn Muslims or Islam.

I'm just genuinely curious about why there has been an increase, often at LGBTQ marches etc, of support shown by that community, towards the Muslim community.



I'm not saying that supporting one another and speaking out against bigotry and homoohobia together is a bad thing. I'm just surprised that the LGBTQ community support Islam, but condemn Christianity.

I can totally understand them condemning both, as both religions teach that homosexuality is wrong/sinful. I just don't get why one is supported and the other is not.

Again, this is a genuine question that I'm curious about so please don't drag it down to a mud slinging match.
They don't condemn Christianity. They condemn the church and it's unchristian policies and practices. There is a difference between Christianity and the Church. There is also a difference between Islam and the policies of Islamic governments. Hating the policies of the overlords of a religion is not the same as hating the religion itself. Many, maybe even most, of the LGBT community would identify as Christian, Muslim, Jewish etc. That banner is clearly condemning a wide variety of forms of irrational hatred. Homophobia, Islamaphobia, Facism etc.
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11-06-2019, 12:31   #14
Lehiff
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Do the lgbt peeps like the Catholic church or is it just Islam they are a fan of as far as religions go?
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11-06-2019, 12:33   #15
Sonics2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Duderino 09 View Post
Does the LGBT community take positions on religions?

I personally think both islam and Christianity are ridiculous. But if someone wants to discriminate against Christians or Muslims or as by other group, then I'll oppose them. That doesn't mean I like islam or Christianity.
Contrary to certain people's insistence, largely within the LGBT community they do actually hate the beliefs of many Muslim people.

The connection between the two more stems from the very common occurrence that when a bad thing happens = Muslim person. Muslim = terrorist. White guy = lone wolf/mental health.

A lot (most people) in the LGBT community can absolutely relate to that form of discrimination.

It's also extremely important to remember that a growing amount of young Muslims in the west are approaching their religion much like many young Christians in the west. Growing scepticism
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