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Catholic sacraments to become optional in schools?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    buckwheat wrote: »
    https://jrnl.ie/4635169

    About time imo.


    Thanks for the news update?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,131 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Think the Journal phrased it badly. They are already optional but prep for them may now take place outside of school hours instead of taking up class time.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭kal7


    I am delighted to hear parents and clergy view that schools should do less of the sacrament preparation.

    Do it outside school, or at least outside school hours. Those that want it can go those that don't not affected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Walter Bishop


    Good. This way those who are genuinely interested in religion can do the preparation on their own time, will be interesting to see what participation levels are like when it's not just done automatically by schools.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,251 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    While it's great separating religion from regular education, it's going to suck for children with religious parents.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    kowloon wrote: »
    While it's great separating religion from regular education, it's going to suck for children with religious parents.

    Why? Is something preventing them from doing it themselves?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,251 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Why? Is something preventing them from doing it themselves?

    No, that's the problem, the poor kids will have to sit through a bunch of religion on top of school.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    kowloon wrote: »
    No, that's the problem, the poor kids will have to sit through a bunch of religion on top of school.

    Sorry misread you... Yeah it might suck for some kids alright. Won't make a jot of difference for the kids of the majority part time party time 'Catholic' parents.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Think the Journal phrased it badly. They are already optional but prep for them may now take place outside of school hours instead of taking up class time.


    I’d imagine what’s more likely to happen is it’ll be a matter to be decided upon by the Board of Management of the school, rather than the idea that some posters here appear to have taken from what is literally only a survey on the proposal as an indication that it will actually happen at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    That article is a disaster.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,131 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Your Face wrote: »
    That article is a disaster.

    Well......it is TheJournal.ie. They are probably the people who failed the Media Studies course.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34 EuKaryMe


    Thanks for the news update?
    test


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,593 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    kowloon wrote: »
    No, that's the problem, the poor kids will have to sit through a bunch of religion on top of school.

    Even worse for Polish kids: they'll have to go to Polish-language school on Saturday and Sunday school on Sunday!

    Except ....

    lawred2 wrote: »
    Sorry misread you... Yeah it might suck for some kids alright. Won't make a jot of difference for the kids of the majority part time party time 'Catholic' parents.

    Wrong: kids aren't stupid, they do the sacraments for the dosh. It won't bother 'em to have to give up an hour a week when they could be doing homework, in order to get €500+ in return.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,587 ✭✭✭Feisar


    I've no interest in religion. Why would a Catholic school not force feed it shtick though?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    I never had to do any sacrements when I was going to primary school. Got exempted. How is this anything new?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    What mental retard parents wants to have this after school hours? There’s enough going on.

    Soccer, GAA, swimming, beavers, and other after school activities. Definitely would not want this as well to be after school. I’m very happy that it’s done during school.

    It doesn’t take up that much school time, and at 8 years old, it’s not like they are going to be missing too much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Wrong: kids aren't stupid, they do the sacraments for the dosh. It won't bother 'em to have to give up an hour a week when they could be doing homework, in order to get €500+ in return.

    whose filling their kid's heads with such crap?


  • Posts: 0 Lilah Full Puppet


    It's always hypocritical when people give out about the Roman Church having the gall to teach their religion, or prepare children for their Roman Catholic sacraments, in schools which are the property of the same Roman Church.

    The Irish state, and Irish citizens, are guests on the private property of a foreign business. They - the vast majority of schools in Ireland - are not owned by the Irish taxpayer, no matter how much funding the state gives to pay the current expenditure of these schools (the vast majority of such expenditure).

    Until this situation is ended, beggars can't be choosers and the Roman Church should tell these people where to get off. Now, how many Irish people would be willing to pay billions of our taxes to buy that church out of its ownership of all these school properties? Or would you prefer the current rent-free situation and spend the billions elsewhere?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,251 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Wrong: kids aren't stupid, they do the sacraments for the dosh. It won't bother 'em to have to give up an hour a week when they could be doing homework, in order to get €500+ in return.

    Wouldn't they still be getting the money if it was done during school hours? Nothing has changed for them other than extra hours lost not having fun.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,020 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    The local parish around me tried to phase in a similar system a few years ago.
    It involved the Communion being on Sunday instead of Saturday.
    Most of the preparation being done outside of school.
    Parents had to bring kids a few evenings or early to a few masses to prepare.(It wasn't a lot).
    A massive fuss was kicked up by parents saying they were taking the faith out of school/etc. It was mostly caused by people who didn't believe or a la carte Catholics and some of those were always used always be on about separating church from state.
    To parish caved in the end and moved the prep work back to the class room and a few other things.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Always number 1


    As someone who (will be lambasted for saying this) chose to enrol their child in a Catholic school (through the parish) it annoys me that my child may have to do Religious studies out of school.

    While i do feel for anyone who had no choice but put their child in a Catholic school, surely they can be catered for with a different activity while others do Religious studies in the school environment


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Can religion just not be moved to the last half hour of the day and those who aren't doing it just go home early?


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,020 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    As someone who (will be lambasted for saying this) chose to enrol their child in a Catholic school (through the parish) it annoys me that my child may have to do Religious studies out of school.

    While i do feel for anyone who had no choice but put their child in a Catholic school, surely they can be catered for with a different activity while others do Religious studies in the school environment

    In schools near me now.
    Relgion is at last subject of the day. You can do it, get collected earlier or go into a room and do stuff with another teacher.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,017 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    It must be a total shock for parents who enrolled their children in a Catholic School to have that forced on them


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Can religion just not be moved to the last half hour of the day and those who aren't doing it just go home early?


    That wouldn’t be feasible for a lot of parents who are already paying exorbitant after-school childminders fees or having to leave their work early to collect their children from school (there’s also the issue of once the children see one group of children leaving school early they’ll all want to leave early). There’s talks of extending the school day to accommodate working parents.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    That wouldn’t be feasible for a lot of parents who are already paying exorbitant after-school childminders fees or having to leave their work early to collect their children from school (there’s also the issue of once the children see one group of children leaving school early they’ll all want to leave early). There’s talks of extending the school day to accommodate working parents.

    Well it seems to work just fine in my school where there are children staying behind for other activities. If it can work for sport or music it can work for everything.

    This is just another excuse. If those who want their child to do wherever want to get the school to assume responsibility then be willing to compromise


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    It's always hypocritical when people give out about the Roman Church having the gall to teach their religion, or prepare children for their Roman Catholic sacraments, in schools which are the property of the same Roman Church.

    The Irish state, and Irish citizens, are guests on the private property of a foreign business. They - the vast majority of schools in Ireland - are not owned by the Irish taxpayer, no matter how much funding the state gives to pay the current expenditure of these schools (the vast majority of such expenditure).

    Until this situation is ended, beggars can't be choosers and the Roman Church should tell these people where to get off. Now, how many Irish people would be willing to pay billions of our taxes to buy that church out of its ownership of all these school properties? Or would you prefer the current rent-free situation and spend the billions elsewhere?

    You make some great points.

    I’d be happy if the Church sorted out the payments that are due. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/church-yet-to-pay-out-promised-millions-to-abuse-survivors-871806.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭ArnoldJRimmer


    It's always hypocritical when people give out about the Roman Church having the gall to teach their religion, or prepare children for their Roman Catholic sacraments, in schools which are the property of the same Roman Church.

    The Irish state, and Irish citizens, are guests on the private property of a foreign business. They - the vast majority of schools in Ireland - are not owned by the Irish taxpayer, no matter how much funding the state gives to pay the current expenditure of these schools (the vast majority of such expenditure).

    Until this situation is ended, beggars can't be choosers and the Roman Church should tell these people where to get off. Now, how many Irish people would be willing to pay billions of our taxes to buy that church out of its ownership of all these school properties? Or would you prefer the current rent-free situation and spend the billions elsewhere?

    Do you reckon if we offer to clean up their grounds of all the child corpses, or maybe make those pesky abuse survivors keep quiet, they'd give us a discount?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    Lets keep the sacraments holy for genuine Catholics .
    I prayed the holy rosary with my children everyday until they left home,
    I still pray it everyday, faith is a gift and should be treated as such.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Well it seems to work just fine in my school where there are children staying behind for other activities. If it can work for sport or music it can work for everything.

    This is just another excuse. If those who want their child to do wherever want to get the school to assume responsibility then be willing to compromise


    I’ve no doubt it does, but what works in one school hardly sets the standards for what should work in all schools when every school community is different.

    That’s why I said at the beginning of the thread that it would be most likely a decision made by the Board of Management of each school as opposed to the idea being rolled out to all schools on a blanket basis. It’s like freshpopcorn posted above too - schools in his area allow the parents the choice of collecting their children early or allowing their children to do other activities until the whole school finishes for the day.

    In schools in my area, some schools allow some of the parents to take their children home on half days when religion is being taught, and I’ve met plenty of parents and people involved in education and employment who are of the opinion that the school day should be extended to accommodate working parents who have to either leave work early to collect their children from school or pay a childminder extra.

    The OP appears to have gotten over-excited at the thoughts of a survey carried out in Dublin as though it could be applied to the rest of the country. In practice of course it’s unlikely even to apply in Dublin where we recently saw the parents and staff in a number of schools kick off because they wanted to maintain their school communities as they are. We’ve also seen parents go to the media when the local parish priest made not so thinly veiled threats against parents who’s children were receiving the sacraments.

    People are often known to say one thing because it feels like the right thing to say, but when it comes down to it, they had no intention of compromising if it means they have to compromise anything.


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