Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

twounderpar wrote: »

In the statement it says the Expert Group decided that competitions across all team and individual sports would not be permitted in
Phase 2.
Is horse racing not a competitive sport.

Anyway I'm quite calm about the situation. All I'm trying to do is attempting to tease out the logic behind the decision.

My horses never get within 2m of the winner anyway!

twounderpar wrote: »

In the statement it says the Expert Group decided that competitions across all team and individual sports would not be permitted in
Phase 2.
Is horse racing not a competitive sport.

Anyway I'm quite calm about the situation. All I'm trying to do is attempting to tease out the logic behind the decision.

Statement here says
“An important point is that the Expert Group advises against any competitive sport in Phase 2. That is a general point across all sports and not directed at golf specifically although relevant to your plans. Fairness and consistency of the application of advice across all sport is an important element of the mandate of the Expert Group."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but if it's just advice then it doesn't necessarily have to be followed right? I guess the GUI weren't willing to go against it for fear of their funding being cut

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Statement here says
“An important point is that the Expert Group advises against any competitive sport in Phase 2. That is a general point across all sports and not directed at golf specifically although relevant to your plans. Fairness and consistency of the application of advice across all sport is an important element of the mandate of the Expert Group."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but if it's just advice then it doesn't necessarily have to be followed right? I guess the GUI weren't willing to go against it for fear of their funding being cut

You're never going to see these statements saying that it's an order. And it's not set in legislation, so it's not law either. But advice is about as strong as it gets.

If I said clubs can go ahead ad ignore it if they like it's only advice, would you?

My club are having a fun scramble at the weekend with a €10 entry fee.
I’m guessing the funds are badly needed.
It’s a disgraceful decision from the GUI to put clubs in this position.

Exactly wrote: »

Forgetting about us as individuals for a minute.

How many more Clubs will this decision put in a very serious financial position? Yes it won't matter to a lot but it could be the tipping point for some.

I also feel sorry for all of the unpaid volunteers up and down the country who have been working tirelessly behind the scenes to make sure everything was set up for an effective and safe return to competition golf.

I just don't get this argument - these are member competitions not opens or green fees.

For non-member owned clubs, competition fees "should not" be going back to the course owners anyway. They are normally separate entities, hence if the club entity is run on a voluntary basis then the impact is "effectively" zero (on the course - I get that the club may have to curtail some of activities).

For member owned clubs, if you are reliant on member comp fees to keep the course operating, then I'd say you have serious problems already.

twounderpar wrote: »

I'm playing in a fourball tomorrow and I'll observe all guidelines as laid out by GUI and my club. I just wonder in what way would having
a scorecard in my back pocket create a risk to the spreading of the virus.

This expert group is made up of 12 people including one representative from FAI, IRFU and GAA.

They also decided at the end of Phase One that driving ranges were indoor facilities. Did they ever change their mind on that decision
because it seems all driving ranges opened their doors anyway.

How are you going to enter a score ?

Nothing has changes in relation to avoid touching surfaces or even the 2 meters as far as I know ?

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

How are you going to enter a score ?

Nothing has changes in relation to avoid touching surfaces or even the 2 meters as far as I know ?

A paper scorecard that hasn't been touched by anyone else is fine. GUI/CONGU have advised that you mark your own score, agree with marker and write their name in. And then there are the electronic methods such as handicap master through the BRS golf app.

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Yes many clubs will be having serious problems already. No income for 2 months. No green fees for god knows how long, at least 3 months. No bar no restaurant no pro shop income but retainers need to be paid. Members looking for payment lapses due to unemployment. Its quite a list.

Most golf club budgets won't have much room to spare. Many members owned clubs basically operate as a non-profit and only the biggest clubs will have a reserve to fall back on. And its not like the last 10 years have been golden years anyway.

Member competitions do contribute to the funding as not the entire competition pot is being paid out. Semi opens and opens are quite a chunk in our budget I believe. In any case, every little helps.

I'm not disputng the problems of having no additional income on top of members subs, and what subs are getting paid.

It's in the context of the decision to change the phase 2 requirements to not allow members comps (not opens or semi-opens because they were never in scope), I don't get how it puts a club in any more precarious a financial position?

In a non-member owned club, that money will go back into running the club and not the course so it's irrelevant. In a member owned club, I get every bit helps but 3 weeks is nothing in the grand scheme of things. If the club is in serious difficulty already then the club should be doing other things to inject cash flow.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Does every club and golfer - right now, have a system to enter scores remotely ?

Certainly every club that uses Master Scoreboard and Golfraffix's system plus a couple more like IG would. Last I heard, HowDidIDo were working on adding the facility, but no sign of that yet. Latest version of the app on Google Play seems to be from last year.

Golf is my Game wrote: »

None. If their down to their last thousand quid making a difference, then they are already gone. Think in their annoyance at losing a couple of comps, lads are really loosing their reason here.

It's not a 'couple of comps'. It's the loss of all competition, green fee and society income since 21st March. It will now be over a quarter of a year of lost income by the time that income starts flowing in again.

hurikane wrote: »

I have it on good authority that the cancellation of club competitions in this phase is to reduce the current workloads on committees, who have been inundated with new members and handicap transfers. Also due to shortages in the defence forces, committees will be called up to defend county borders from golfers travelling county to county in search of a game. All necessary training will be provided to committees, who will be issued with fire arms.

???????

People are annoyed at the GUI handling of this matter.

The GUI roadmap initially released allowed for closed comps and members guests from this morning. Clubs and software providers took the roadmap and ran with it and did all the necessary work on amending time sheets, providing digital scorecards etc and had their competitions arranged for the next number of weeks and saw all their work discarded by a statement after 7.30pm on Friday.

The GUI statement on Saturday stated that feedback from the expert group was silent on the phase 2 elements whereas the elements in phase 1 were approved.
It was incumbent on the GUI to seek early clarification on phase 2 or amend the roadmap to state only casual golf until the expert group advises otherwise.

Secondly releasing the statement after 7.30pm on a Friday was in my view done to avoid questions or comments at the WHS zoom conference on Friday afternoon.

The saying "over promised and under delivered" applies to the GUI in this instance.

People accepted that restrictions were necessary and sport had to cease. All sports people wanted was proper guidance and advise from their association.