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Newly Done Up House - Looks Well Finished but BER rating F?

  • 03-12-2019 2:05pm
    #1
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭


    Any ideas why this may be? Could it be an out of date BER rating. The house looks newly renovated and well kept. It is an old council house so it should be well built.


Comments

  • #2
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Any ideas why this may be? Could it be an out of date BER rating. The house looks newly renovated and well kept. It is an old council house so it should be well built.

    They put no money into insulation. They have a crappy boiler.

    Could be many things.


  • #3
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,570 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    BER ratings are very much an enigma. For example you could spend thousands wrapping your entire house top to bottom in external insulation and still get a bad result.

    They will penalise you for chimneys (number of)
    They will penalise for radiator types.
    They will penalise for light fittings
    They will penalise for the boiler type / age


    etc etc etc


  • #4
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Any ideas why this may be? Could it be an out of date BER rating. The house looks newly renovated and well kept. It is an old council house so it should be well built.

    Old council houses are generally very structurally sound, but that structure is not necessarily well insulated.
    What's the link?
    I bought a 1950s era council house, graded E something, but after external insulating, heating controls, attic insulation etc. got it to a C. Could get it better if I replace the old non condensing boiler.
    The fact that the council house had a mass concrete wall made it very easy to install external insulation to it.


  • #5
    jamo2oo9
    Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    listermint wrote: »
    BER ratings are very much an enigma. For example you could spend thousands wrapping your entire house top to bottom in external insulation and still get a bad result.

    They will penalise you for chimneys (number of)
    They will penalise for radiator types.
    They will penalise for light fittings
    They will penalise for the boiler type / age


    etc etc etc

    Lighting hardly makes a difference. It's down to the insulation, type of walls and boiler mainly. There are other bits and pieces that contribute to the energy rating but those are the three main things to look at if you want to improve the rating.


  • #6
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,257 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    listermint wrote: »
    BER ratings are very much an enigma. For example you could spend thousands wrapping your entire house top to bottom in external insulation and still get a bad result.

    They will penalise you for chimneys (number of)
    They will penalise for radiator types.
    They will penalise for light fittings
    They will penalise for the boiler type / age


    etc etc etc

    an enigma?


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Its default rating for the era in which it was built?


  • #8
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,352 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Any ideas why this may be? Could it be an out of date BER rating. The house looks newly renovated and well kept. It is an old council house so it should be well built.
    ronoc wrote: »
    Its default rating for the era in which it was built?

    This ^^^^^

    Most likely the owners could not provide evidence of the renovation works to substantiate the BER Assessment.

    I done mine last week but as i'm involved in that side of Construction I had photographic records of every detail including the DoP of every product used so the Assessor can stand over the figures being put into DEAP.

    For example, the windows I put in were 1.4 but the Assessor said he would have to use the default of 2.2 if I couldn't provide the Certification for them. The front door and screen was 0.98, but again, I had the certs confirming that and then an email from the company confirming they installed them in my house.

    Same goes for the insulation. I had the DoP for the product used and I had construction photos showing the build up and you could clearly see it in place.


  • #9
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    kceire wrote: »
    This ^^^^^

    Most likely the owners could not provide evidence of the renovation works to substantiate the BER Assessment.

    I done mine last week but as i'm involved in that side of Construction I had photographic records of every detail including the DoP of every product used so the Assessor can stand over the figures being put into DEAP.

    For example, the windows I put in were 1.4 but the Assessor said he would have to use the default of 2.2 if I couldn't provide the Certification for them. The front door and screen was 0.98, but again, I had the certs confirming that and then an email from the company confirming they installed them in my house.

    Same goes for the insulation. I had the DoP for the product used and I had construction photos showing the build up and you could clearly see it in place.

    Cheers! So technically the house should be slightly better
    seen as there was lots of renovation but would require an assessment to find out?


  • #10
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Any ideas why this may be? Could it be an out of date BER rating. The house looks newly renovated and well kept. It is an old council house so it should be well built.

    Get someone with a keen eye to have a look at the house.

    Some renovations are visually impressive at a glance but when looked at closely you can get an idea of the type of person who renovated the house.

    To be honest there are quite a few people in the business of flipping houses, and they are only spending money on what will be seen at the finish. So finishes are where all the money goes.

    A nice granite worktop? Not ideal if the floor isn't insulated and your kitchen is freezing.


  • #11
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,570 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    kceire wrote: »
    This ^^^^^

    Most likely the owners could not provide evidence of the renovation works to substantiate the BER Assessment.

    I done mine last week but as i'm involved in that side of Construction I had photographic records of every detail including the DoP of every product used so the Assessor can stand over the figures being put into DEAP.

    For example, the windows I put in were 1.4 but the Assessor said he would have to use the default of 2.2 if I couldn't provide the Certification for them. The front door and screen was 0.98, but again, I had the certs confirming that and then an email from the company confirming they installed them in my house.

    Same goes for the insulation. I had the DoP for the product used and I had construction photos showing the build up and you could clearly see it in place.

    I did mine two years ago, and provided the same. And my rating was crap. So either the assessor was crap.. (which i suspect) because he smelt like the backend of a couch. Or the system is flawed.

    I believe both to be true. btw


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  • #12
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,352 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    listermint wrote: »
    I did mine two years ago, and provided the same. And my rating was crap. So either the assessor was crap.. (which i suspect) because he smelt like the backend of a couch. Or the system is flawed.

    I believe both to be true. btw

    Mine went from D3 to B1.
    My Assessor told me out straight, if it wasn't for my detailed records, certificates and the fact i'm in the business so I could put my name to the works, he would have to of taken the default figures for items he could not see or demonstrate to an SEAI auditor on request.

    The SEAI audit the Assessor monthly give or take.


  • #13
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Newly Done Up House
    Newly done up, how? Fresh lick of paint, new carpets, and a trimmed lawn?


  • #14
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,570 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    kceire wrote: »
    Mine went from D3 to B1.
    My Assessor told me out straight, if it wasn't for my detailed records, certificates and the fact i'm in the business so I could put my name to the works, he would have to of taken the default figures for items he could not see or demonstrate to an SEAI auditor on request.

    The SEAI audit the Assessor monthly give or take.

    I know this not to be true. In fact being ireland there is f'all that is audited as regularly as that.


  • #15
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Any ideas why this may be? Could it be an out of date BER rating. The house looks newly renovated and well kept. It is an old council house so it should be well built.

    If the person doing the assessment doesn't have proof of some work being done or cannot see it themselves then the assumption is it doesn't exist.

    I bought a house a few years ago with a terrible rating but I knew it was inaccurate. Example: Rating didn't include the attic insulation because no access to the attic was provided when the inspector was there and no documentation to prove it. So the assumption in the rating was no attic insulation.


  • #16
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    If the person doing the assessment doesn't have proof of some work being done or cannot see it themselves then the assumption is it doesn't exist.

    I bought a house a few years ago with a terrible rating but I knew it was inaccurate. Example: Rating didn't include the attic insulation because no access to the attic was provided when the inspector was there and no documentation to prove it. So the assumption in the rating was no attic insulation.

    Understandable really ,the guy can't certify what he can't prove ,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #17
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,352 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    listermint wrote: »
    I know this not to be true. In fact being ireland there is f'all that is audited as regularly as that.

    I know this as true.
    One guy I know got audited twice in the last month.

    By audited I mean the specific BER's published are selected for a detailed analysis and the Assessor has to demonstrate why he/she arrived at particular figures used.


  • #18
    scamalert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    interesting while recently getting my BER cert after new boiler, i got few questions from assesor like does kitchen oven fan wents to outside, also noted old fashioned wents in the room and said modern ones would be better where you can shut em, makes sense in some rooms but overall did mostly sq meter measurements of entire house, so if someone had better insulation done etc- without mention they could easily miss it, then again people who sell and renovate usually will try to increase ber cert and it should be noted unless whatever they done didnt make any impact.


    as mine semi d after new boiler went to C1 from C3 if recall the latter correctly, about 2 points lower 20y old house.
    guess from what ive been told to get into B range would require to insulate hollow brick walls, aint sure how its done but imagine not cheap.


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