DNA--When is it enough to be sure?

VirginiaB · 24-07-2019 9:00pm #1

I have been slowly tracing my many Irish ancestors--from all over the island--for many years. I have made a breakthru on one of my most difficult ancestors but need advice from someone who knows more about DNA than I do--which is very little.

My great-great grandmother was Ann Frawley, married William Sheehan. I built up her life in New York--Manhattan, then Brooklyn--over many years. No parents' names found. Lived abt 1835-1895. The problem, as ever, is getting back to Ireland. Usually I get clues from siblings, friends etc. but not with Ann. I did finally find either a brother or cousin, Daniel J. Frawley, whose Emigrant Bank account said Co Cork but that's it. I have noticed their associated families seemed to have been from the Kanturk general area. These families seem--and I may be pushing the evidence--to have formed a little Gaeltacht in the East 20s in NYC.

I have done Ancestry.com's DNA test. Recently I have found three Frawley matches. They all descend from a Hannah Frawley, married to Daniel Kelleher. I researched Hannah backwards. Hannah & Daniel are living with her elderly parents in the 1901 and 1911 censuses--Hannah's father was John Frawley. Research in the records shows John Frawley as a son of James Frawley, died 1865. James is in Griffith's Valuation. This is so long I'll have to skip the records showing all evidence.

This Frawley family lived in the townland of Kilbarry, civil parish of Kilbrin, RC parish of Kilbrin/Ballyclogh, barony of Duhallow, Co Cork. Is it my family? There is light evidence that my Ann Frawley's father was James. If so, then could she and John Frawley, father of Hannah Frawley Kelleher, be siblings?

The DNA matches show--
A 3rd cousin once removed--28 cm over 4 segments
A 4th cousin--23 cm over 2 segments
A 4th cousin--16 cm over 2 segments

So, at long last, my question. Do you think this proves my Ann Frawley is a sibling of John Frawley of Kilbarry? He is the closest to her in generations. Or is DNA strong enough, if that's the term, for John to be a cousin of some kind? If he's a brother, I have the townland of origin. If not, I don't. Many apologies for the length.

Frawley baptisms are strangely almost all absent on FMP and Ancestry for the parish.

pinkypinky · 24-07-2019 10:01pm

It's a good theory but I don't think you've got enough yet. Can you test more people in your family to widen the net? First cousins of yours or your relevant parent would be ideal.

Also, have you put your DNA on Gedmatch/FTDNA/MyHeritage? You might find other Frawley connections in those pools.

VirginiaB · 24-07-2019 10:46pm

I'm afraid you're right but have not given up all hope. Ann Frawley Sheehan had seven children and only one, my great-grandmother, had children--2 boys. No descendant except my brother has tested and he has no tree. Ann's likely brother/cousin in NY, Daniel J. Frawley, had ten children--but only one grandchild. Astounding.

I did do the FamilyTree DNA test, including the mtDNA, but only one result other than my brother. The one result is not a Frawley.

Hannah Frawley Kelleher in Kilbarry was an only child tho she had a number of children. The three matches are her descendants. Thanks for your input, always a help.

pedroeibar1 · 24-07-2019 10:59pm

VB have you tried local pages?
Kanturk would be covered by the North Cork DNA group on Facebook
You could run your DNA through the DNA matchfinder on that site and it just might throw up something as it is area specific. A post there might also prove useful.

VirginiaB · 25-07-2019 3:51am

A good suggestion but I am not on Facebook. I have avoided it because of all the reasons that have come to light over the last several years. I know I miss out on some things, like genealogy, but that was the decision I made.

pinkypinky · 25-07-2019 8:35am

Upload your data to Gedmatch (it's free) and transfer to My Heritage (small charge).

Are you saying only have one match on FTDNA autosomal? I have about 4000.

Have you traced Daniel Frawley's family forward to now to find descendants?
Similarly, go back to Hannah and research her siblings and trace them forward.

Re: Facebook - why not just open an account using a fake birthday, no photo, and a unique email address. Use it only for genealogy and never post any personal stuff.

spurious · 25-07-2019 11:08am

GEDMatch the way to go, for a test taken with any company.

Segment matching might help.

VirginiaB · 25-07-2019 3:02pm

Pinkypinky, I have many matches on FTDNA but only 2 identifiable--my brother and one distant cousin in Ireland--not the Frawley line. The rest are either very distant or have no trees or usually both.

As I noted above, Hannah had no siblings--just a sister who died as a baby. And also as noted, Daniel J. Frawley had ten children but only one grandchild. I have followed that line but I don't think any of them has done DNA. Ann Frawley Sheehan, my gt gt grandmother, had seven children but only her daughter Mary had children--2 of them. Of the descendants, only my brother and I have done DNA tho we have nine 1st cousins and a number of 2nd cousins and beyond.

On Ancestry, I have 206 fourth cousin or closer matches. Most I can ID thru shared matches so Ancestry has been my best source.

Hannah Frawley Kelleher's two children who immigrated to the US are the source of my 3 DNA matches. They came in the 20c. I think I'll follow your advice to search the rest of her children. But will anyone remember hearing about a young teen-age girl who left Ireland in 1851? Not optimistic but you never know.

Thanks to both of you for the replies.

DNA--When is it enough to be sure?

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