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Road bike or Gravel bike?

24

Comments

  • #32
    danoriordan1402
    Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭danoriordan1402


    thanks for all the detailed and helpful reply's folks - lots of food for thought


  • #33
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,264 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Tony04 wrote: »
    Previous poster made a point about frame not mattering, I would disagree as something to look out for is a frameset with well positioned bottle cage bolts, mud cage mounts etc.
    More from a rider weight perspective is what I meant. I actually love the extra bottle mount and the top tube mount on my topstone!


  • #34
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    cletus wrote: »
    TL/DR: I'd sacrifice the top speed to be able to cycle some of the roads/lanes/paths that I take. If I had the money you have to spend on a bike, I'd just buy a newer, lighter gravel bike

    Same, my main bike is a CX bike that I've recently changed to use MTB pedals and gravel tyres and I'm loving the go anywhere flexibility. Probably lost a couple of kph off my average speed as a result but still a great setup for long road spins.


  • #35
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Speed aside, thinking though that any tyres that are good for gravel/off-road musn't be great on-road, and wear much faster than usual?

    Used to run Rapid Robs on my cx bike (original tyres) for road commutes and the rear barely lasted 2 months before it was lethal.


  • #36
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    MojoMaker wrote: »
    Speed aside, thinking though that any tyres that are good for gravel/off-road musn't be great on-road, and wear much faster than usual?

    Used to run Rapid Robs on my cx bike (original tyres) for road commutes and the rear barely lasted 2 months before it was lethal.

    Rapid Rob's are very much a cheap entry level tyre though. Running 38c Schwalbe G-One's Allround Raceguard at the moment, also cheap at €22 each, so interested to see how they hold out over time. Probably should have gone for the more expensive microskin version but they're very much an experiment. Ran CX Comps for years previously with no issues other than very occasional punctures. Not sure why gravel tyres would wear much faster on roads that similarly specc'ed and priced road tyres.


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  • #37
    nak
    Registered Users Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭nak


    Have had Specialized Sawtooth tyres on my cyclocross bike for commuting, maybe around 1 year and I was doing 160km/week for half that, still plenty of life left in them and no need to use plugs.


  • #38
    Jonesy101
    Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Jonesy101


    Id go gravel/cyclo cross bike. I have a road racing one but you can do anything on a gravel bike. commute, change tyres to be a road (racing) bike if youre doing a triathlon or long road ride, and you can also do the gravel trails too and go on grass and mud. more comfortable and safer riding position. No contest!


  • #39
    waterford45
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭waterford45


    Plenty of good advice here so far, and a lot of the questions I had answered already. In relation to 1x v 2x, what is the top gear like on a 1x along the flats (granted that you might be spinning out on a down hill), i.e if you had a bit of a commute to your local gravel track, would you be more inclined to get a 2x in that case. Or, would a 1x setup, and maybe get a bigger front chainring for the days that a bit more speed on the roads was required be a better job?


  • #40
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    waterford45 wrote: »
    Plenty of good advice here so far, and a lot of the questions I had answered already. In relation to 1x v 2x, what is the top gear like on a 1x along the flats (granted that you might be spinning out on a down hill), i.e if you had a bit of a commute to your local gravel track, would you be more inclined to get a 2x in that case. Or, would a 1x setup, and maybe get a bigger front chainring for the days that a bit more speed on the roads was required be a better job?

    I have a Ragley Trig Adventure with 1x11 and 42mm tyres. 40t front, 11-42t rear. I have used it along with one of my road bikes (2x11, 25mm tyres, about 3kg lighter) many times doing the same route commuting (only 6k each way). I have more PR’s on the Ragley than my toad bike.

    The gravel bike is much more fun and versatile. I have panniers and the bonus of full length mud guards on it.


  • #41
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    How is it faster at 3kg lighter? Is it just you're enjoying yourself more?

    I've about 2kg difference between my road and gravel bikes and find the gravel bike is about 10 per cent slower, albeit I only really measure this on climbs


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  • #42
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    waterford45 wrote: »
    In relation to 1x v 2x, what is the top gear like on a 1x along the flats (granted that you might be spinning out on a down hill), i.e if you had a bit of a commute to your local gravel track, would you be more inclined to get a 2x in that case. Or, would a 1x setup, and maybe get a bigger front chainring for the days that a bit more speed on the roads was required be a better job?

    I suppose this is just a matter of the particular ratios involved. I suspect if you had a target set up you could try and emulate the particular gear on a 2x to see what it's like. Maybe this might not be possible if 1x systems are always a different size "big ring" to either ring on a 2x? Maybe there's also a mathematical way of calculating this?

    In fact it's something I'm interested in - can you work out the max speed of a bike, gravity and wind excluded, by looking at the gear ratios? Once you factor in a max realistically obtainable cadence is it just a question of the size of the rings? I appreciate aerodynamics and possibly weight / rolling resistance will slow you down, but is there a max speed from the rings alone?


  • #43
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    danoriordan1402 wrote: »
    thanks for all the detailed and helpful reply's folks - lots of food for thought

    I think the points about weight of the bike and gear ratios for a heavier cyclist climbing are well made and are a good argument for going for something more expensive and lighter. You'd also probably want a more durable bike to take the hits.

    One other one I'd throw in, I never rode the rove but there's a negative review above which seems hard to argue with, but kona do another bike, a sutra ltd which I have rode and while I think it's heavy enough (11.6 kg) it's bullet proof and also very enjoyable. Very much a niche market bike so it may be available (there's a bike shop in moycullen, galway that stocks kona)


  • #44
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    a148pro wrote: »
    How is it faster at 3kg lighter? Is it just you're enjoying yourself more?

    I've about 2kg difference between my road and gravel bikes and find the gravel bike is about 10 per cent slower, albeit I only really measure this on climbs

    I suspect subconsciously I’m less worried about the road surface. I feel very little feedback with the 42mm tyres. I’m not afraid of hitting a bump or hole it can’t manage.


  • #45
    outfox
    Registered Users Posts: 942 ✭✭✭outfox


    I use a gravel bike with 38 mm on club spins. It's the business. It's certainly slower on blacktop, and on descents. But I don't find it any slower than the road bikes on climbs. On tar and chip, it's great, particularly on long spins. I've never had a puncture on it.


  • #46
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,234 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a148pro wrote: »
    How is it faster at 3kg lighter? Is it just you're enjoying yourself more?
    on the flat, once you're up to speed, the weight of the bike won't matter so much. the difference in the tyres may be more pronounced than the difference in the weight.


  • #47
    Tony04
    Registered Users Posts: 646 ✭✭✭Tony04


    a148pro wrote: »
    How is it faster at 3kg lighter? Is it just you're enjoying yourself more?

    I've about 2kg difference between my road and gravel bikes and find the gravel bike is about 10 per cent slower, albeit I only really measure this on climbs
    On bad rural roads possibly as you've more confidence and can ride more aggressively. Also if your running a good set of tubeless gravel tyre rolling resistance isnt as probably as much on good roads and it would sure roll much better on bad roads. But yeh I've found average speed to be about 10% slower on gravel than my road bike


  • #48
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,419 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    a148pro wrote: »
    How is it faster at 3kg lighter? Is it just you're enjoying yourself more?

    I've about 2kg difference between my road and gravel bikes and find the gravel bike is about 10 per cent slower, albeit I only really measure this on climbs

    There is well over 5kg between my road and CX bike. Despite this on my commute at race pace, over 17km the difference is barely measurable. The truth is unless your competitive at high level, it really makes little difference. Most of my KOMs are on my CX bike. My snap is quicker on my race bike but being honest, anyone measuring it would struggle to tell the difference.


  • #49
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,863 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    What would you think of this Defy 2 with 32mm tubeless for tackling fire roads/laneways around the place? I dont give a crap about racing or group rides I just like exploring on my own fairly long range 50-100 km rides at weekends but I dont want to go full MTB either as I like a bit of speed on the proper roads (does 32mm make a big difference in this regard btw?)

    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/defy-advanced-2


  • #50
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Ah there's no way you're faster up hills on a 5kg heavier bike


  • #51
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,419 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    a148pro wrote: »
    Ah there's no way you're faster up hills on a 5kg heavier bike
    Rose X lite 6 vs a cube cross SL. On paper 6.4 Vs 9.9 so 3.5kg. The rose is definitly faster but according to Strava, the difference is negligible. If speed is the concern, the motor is more important than the bike unless your near pro level.


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  • #52
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Thargor wrote: »
    What would you think of this Defy 2 with 32mm tubeless for tackling fire roads/laneways around the place? I dont give a crap about racing or group rides I just like exploring on my own fairly long range 50-100 km rides at weekends but I dont want to go full MTB either as I like a bit of speed on the proper roads (does 32mm make a big difference in this regard btw?)

    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/defy-advanced-2

    32mm makes a big difference but you also need to look at tread pattern. Slicks in mud ain't going nowhere no matter how wide. Not a problem in dry weather, but as they say on the telly, Winter is coming ;)


  • #53
    velo.2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭velo.2010


    mimiminx wrote: »
    I‘m looking to use it for long rides, but there’s a lot of bad roads around me and don’t want to wreck a road bike so maybe gravel would be better?

    A gravel bike is a slightly modified road bike and bad roads don't wreck road bikes. Your looking for comfort and a road bike with the abliity to take 30/32mm tyres is your first port of call. Relaxed geometry like the Defy will help if your position on the bike causes discomfort.

    For reference, I cycled the entire Royal Canal greenway on a full carbon road bike with 25mm tyres and with no issues — 28mm tyres may have made it slightly more comfortable


  • #54
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,863 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    smacl wrote: »
    32mm makes a big difference but you also need to look at tread pattern. Slicks in mud ain't going nowhere no matter how wide. Not a problem in dry weather, but as they say on the telly, Winter is coming ;)
    I actually only found out in the last couple of days about them having less rolling resistance and being faster than 23X700, never would have thought that before I read it.

    If I did get knobbly tubeless 32s on a new bike what difference would that make to my road riding do you think? Because that would still be 90% of my time on the bike. Would it be very noticeable?


  • #55
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Thargor wrote: »
    I actually only found out in the last couple of days about them having less rolling resistance and being faster than 23X700, never would have thought that before I read it.

    If I did get knobbly tubeless 32s on a new bike what difference would that make to my road riding do you think? Because that would still be 90% of my time on the bike. Would it be very noticeable?

    I'm currently running 38c gravel tyres on my main bike having moved from 32c slicks. Feels a bit draggier descending but still hitting PBs regularly.


  • #56
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Thargor wrote: »
    What would you think of this Defy 2 with 32mm tubeless for tackling fire roads/laneways around the place? I dont give a crap about racing or group rides I just like exploring on my own fairly long range 50-100 km rides at weekends but I dont want to go full MTB either as I like a bit of speed on the proper roads (does 32mm make a big difference in this regard btw?)

    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/defy-advanced-2

    I have 37s on gravel bike and it's overkill 90 per cent of the time. The only times I feel it comes of use is on thick grassed canal tow paths, of which there are relatively few left in ireland, and deeply rutted stone bog / mountain roads, which unfortunately rarely lead anywhere. You just go up them and turn around and go back down! (The search continues though)

    To be honest most road bikes are acceptable on fire roads and little bits of off road trails so 32s will be absolutely perfect and probably a better balance than 37s.


  • #57
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    a148pro wrote: »
    Ah there's no way you're faster up hills on a 5kg heavier bike

    Easily done if the heavier bike has a granny ring vs walking up with a 39x25


  • #58
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    a148pro wrote: »
    I have 37s on gravel bike and it's overkill 90 per cent of the time. The only times I feel it comes of use is on thick grassed canal tow paths, of which there are relatively few left in ireland, and deeply rutted stone bog / mountain roads, which unfortunately rarely lead anywhere. You just go up them and turn around and go back down! (The search continues though)

    To be honest most road bikes are acceptable on fire roads and little bits of off road trails so 32s will be absolutely perfect and probably a better balance than 37s.

    A certain amount also comes down to your bike handling skills, where mine are admittedly pretty woeful and I feel quite a bit more comfortable on the wider tyres at lower pressure on gravelly or mucky off-road descents. One of my regular local spots is Massey's wood which includes plenty of muddy bits and tree roots where I find the slightly wider gravel tyres way better than slicks.

    I agree entirely that you have to go actively looking for decent gravel trails and certainly around the Dublin and Wicklow area expect to spend most of the time on paved surfaces. Some of the unpaved bits you do find can end up being tractor tracks and protruding nettles and briars forcing you onto the overgrown grass centre, e.g. this 3.5k segment from yesterday. Looks grand at the start but changes a bit along. My plan is a second set of wheels so I can choose between an road based or off-road based depending on my intended spin.

    The whole endless dead-ends on fire roads is a real PITA for sure and something Board Failte, Coilte and the local authorities should really look into. I'm currently spending an unhealthy amount of time staring at the Google satellite maps looking for ways to link things up.


  • #59
    cletus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭cletus


    smacl wrote: »
    The whole endless dead-ends on fire roads is a real PITA for sure and something Board Failte, Coilte and the local authorities should really look into. I'm currently spending an unhealthy amount of time staring at the Google satellite maps looking for ways to link things up.

    I use a combination of OpenStreetMaps and Google Street view for this


  • #60
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    a148pro wrote: »
    Basically 2x has twice as many gears, but is slightly heavier as a result and there's an extra thing that can go wrong (the derailler which moves the chain between the big and small rings at the front of the bike).

    Is it really heavier though. Was looking at a 1xMTB recently and the larger cogs looked almost as big as a 34 chainring. I can only imagine therefore that the cassette is way heavier than an 11-25 and the extra weight is as much as the second chainring, derailleur and cables combined.

    Am I wrong on this, anyone have some hard facts ?


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  • #61
    CantGetNoSleep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,205 ✭✭✭CantGetNoSleep


    harringtonp wrote: »
    Is it really heavier though. Was looking at a 1xMTB recently and the larger cogs looked almost as big as a 34 chainring. I can only imagine therefore that the cassette is way heavier than an 11-25 and the extra weight is as much as the second chainring, derailleur and cables combined.

    Am I wrong on this, anyone have some hard facts ?

    I think it's a question of simplicity rather than weight saving. With 22 gears you have certain overlaps where different front and back combinations are almost the same, so a 1x can now give you the majority of the gears without any hassle of changing front rings


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