Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

ShaneC1600 · 06-08-2020 9:09am

A great article gone to print by a greenway supporter today. Calling railway supporters desperate, criminal even for believing reintroduction of a rail service along the WRC could be beneficial to the area.
The derogatory rear guard action comment is not unusual or surprising for this greenway supporter but one that furthers the division between the two sides.
He fails to mention that the opening of the section between Athenry and Ennis happened during the economic crisis and has improved year on year but again not surprising. He fails to mention that all railway lines went through a period of declining usership in that period.
He leads the reader to believe that the greenway will keep educated people in the area. He states that funding has been provided to begin the greenway between Athenry and Ennis, i guess the railway supporters could equally say the railway is underway if money into a report is considered the beginning.
Great article tho ðŸ‘

River Suir · 06-08-2020 9:50am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

A great article gone to print by a greenway supporter today. Calling railway supporters desperate, criminal even for believing reintroduction of a rail service along the WRC could be beneficial to the area.
The derogatory rear guard action comment is not unusual or surprising for this greenway supporter but one that furthers the division between the two sides.
He fails to mention that the opening of the section between Athenry and Ennis happened during the economic crisis and has improved year on year but again not surprising. He fails to mention that all railway lines went through a period of declining usership in that period.
He leads the reader to believe that the greenway will keep educated people in the area. He states that funding has been provided to begin the greenway between Athenry and Ennis, i guess the railway supporters could equally say the railway is underway if money into a report is considered the beginning.
Great article tho ðŸ‘

You have to remember though that the many derogatory and divisive comments in print and online written by that man and his campaign partner led many people - including myself - to become pro rail activists. It's thanks to those two that over the last few years has seen a strong and very effective pro better transport lobby emerge, one that meets regularly with TDs and ministers to push the rail message.

These guys in their attempt to be the Burke and Hare of Irish railways have paradoxically radicalised many former armchair commentators into being full blown activists. All-Ireland railway expansion is now firmly on the agenda.

TCDStudent1 · 06-08-2020 11:12am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

A great article gone to print by a greenway supporter today. Calling railway supporters desperate, criminal even for believing reintroduction of a rail service along the WRC could be beneficial to the area.
The derogatory rear guard action comment is not unusual or surprising for this greenway supporter but one that furthers the division between the two sides.
He fails to mention that the opening of the section between Athenry and Ennis happened during the economic crisis and has improved year on year but again not surprising. He fails to mention that all railway lines went through a period of declining usership in that period.
He leads the reader to believe that the greenway will keep educated people in the area. He states that funding has been provided to begin the greenway between Athenry and Ennis, i guess the railway supporters could equally say the railway is underway if money into a report is considered the beginning.
Great article tho ðŸ‘

Where can I read that?

ezstreet5 · 06-08-2020 11:46am

It's the same old small-town mindset. If you don't agree with me, you are one of a small group of fools. I can't tolerate your opinion, so you will eventually have to change it. And again, "greenway tourism" is the panacea that will pull rural Ireland out of its morass.

westtip · 06-08-2020 12:19pm

River Suir wrote: »

You have to remember though that the many derogatory and divisive comments in print and online written by that man and his campaign partner led many people - including myself - to become pro rail activists. It's thanks to those two that over the last few years has seen a strong and very effective pro better transport lobby emerge, one that meets regularly with TDs and ministers to push the rail message.

These guys in their attempt to be the Burke and Hare of Irish railways have paradoxically radicalised many former armchair commentators into being full blown activists. All-Ireland railway expansion is now firmly on the agenda.

Hilarious, love it. "The Burke and Hare of Irish Railways" It just gets funnier by the day. If these two hadn't spoken up there would be no Sligo Greenway Co-op with local people achieving what they have in Sligo, No Kiltimagh Greenway Group advocating the greenway in Mayo and No QMG group (no in fact they came out on their own accord without Burk and Hare), There would have been no 25,000 names on a petition and no grants for the latest projects for Greenways on the closed for 40 year rail routes. Do you really think these two characters did this all by themselves. Of course they did wake up West on Track but that was bound to happen after all remember Gerry "not up for discussion" Murray saying the railway was not on the agenda and was not up for discussion.

Hilarious, keep taking the pills, Great article Mr Burke.

Muckyboots · 06-08-2020 12:49pm

This?
https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/116166/quiet-man-greenway-receives-funding-for-feasibility-study?fbclid=IwAR258SjAwpc8pvKpBO6PaQNL9pvlGsglcuOKLpogBU7ok1lS03-BcXVftE8

[Deleted User] · 06-08-2020 1:19pm

Or this?

or maybe this one

or possibly this

but probably this

[Deleted User] · 06-08-2020 1:38pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

This?
https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/116166/quiet-man-greenway-receives-funding-for-feasibility-study?fbclid=IwAR258SjAwpc8pvKpBO6PaQNL9pvlGsglcuOKLpogBU7ok1lS03-BcXVftE8

You have to laugh at the cheek of the Loughrea & Ballinasloe Councillors telling lies in order to try block the greenway for the Athenry-0Oranmore & Tuam districts.

Fine Gael councillor Jimmy McClearn said while everyone supports the concept of a greenway, it was precluded by the Regional Spatial Strategy from being constructed on the railway line.

No its not

"The greenway can go anywhere but not on the railway and it is time we have to face up to it."

Actually no, thats what the feasibility study will decide.

"The greenway can go anywhere but not on the railway and it is time we have to face up to it.That is the law."

No such law exists

Ballinasloe councillor Michael Connolly concurred with Cllr McClearn's sentiments saying it was important that Galway was a place people can live and work and not a location where people go on their holidays.

Ya wha??

"I am the chair of inter county rail committee [and the railway line] is a vital part of development of Atlantic in rail corridor. It is important we don't turn Galway into a park for those from Dublin and around the world. People have to be able to live and work here."

Its pretty obvious this lad has done his research

westtip · 06-08-2020 2:13pm

Da Cor, it gets more and more bizarre what law is the cllr quoting, I note for example on the West on Track FB page the one thing they do not mention is the entire dependence on the future of the WRC being entirely dependent on the Rail Review, which is effectively what Regional Planning Guideline 6.11 states. Of course none of us know yet what this report says but after being asked god knows how many times on GalwaybayFM last week Cllr Connolly was asked will he accept the reports findings he just kept saying I am confident it will support the western rail corridor, Look none of us have seen it yet, we have asked for it endlessly but these lies being put out about some law saying the railway cannot be a greenway is just clutching at straws by the old guard. And they are lies, no such law exists and the Regional Strategies do not state the railway cannot be used as a greenway in any part of the RSES document.

Muckyboots · 06-08-2020 3:21pm

Interpret to your hearts content. My reading is that the Minister can step in and overrule RPGs at his, or her, will. Not sure which "Minister" though.
https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,1605,en.pdf

Lord Glentoran · 06-08-2020 5:20pm

Meanwhile, on the Other Island, no greenway here but a serious proposal to reopen a low density line to passenger traffic after fifty years... https://www.facebook.com/153132638110668/posts/3207874485969786/?vh=e

[Deleted User] · 06-08-2020 5:57pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Meanwhile, on the Other Island, no greenway here but a serious proposal to reopen a low density line to passenger traffic after fifty years... https://www.facebook.com/153132638110668/posts/3207874485969786/?vh=e

What is your definition of low density in this case?

The line is in the New Forest District of Hampshire. 240/km2 in the district, so about five times denser than Galway. Hampshire itself has a population of about 1.8 million in an area about the same as Clare.

Despite still having military traffic and industrial traffic until recently it will cost £45,000,000 for 10km.

westtip · 06-08-2020 7:38pm

pg633 wrote: »

What is your definition of low density in this case?

The line is in the New Forest District of Hampshire. 240/km2 in the district, so about five times denser than Galway. Hampshire itself has a population of about 1.8 million in an area about the same as Clare.

Despite still having military traffic and industrial traffic until recently it will cost £45,000,000 for 10km.

Yep and no bridges to replace.

Lord Glentoran · 07-08-2020 12:43am

westtip wrote: »

Yep and no bridges to replace.

Oh noes... what an impossibly expensive thing to replace (seemingly) :rolleyes:

westtip · 07-08-2020 3:24pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Oh noes... what an impossibly expensive thing to replace (seemingly) :rolleyes:

seemingly!? all other things considered can I spell out the name of the country we live in Ireland!

westtip · 08-08-2020 1:25am

Burke and Hare (this time Hare) at it again

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpjv2m7gcq2sgx4/B-Quinn%20interview_MWR_07-08-20.mp4?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR3Hck7yMrWD2pBLSzDf0b73CcQWMqfrVwEkryby_7qba3Gigk4M-Qgf5I0

Greaney · 12-08-2020 5:12pm

I've just come back from the Raheen Woods Hotel. The impressions I got were...

1) They are interested in only discussing establishing a route between Athlone & Galway,
2) They are interested in using State owned land, so they want the state to 'own' the greenway. That's a higher spec than the eurovelo on mainland Europe. They want to meet landowners who are keen/interested in the project
3) They are not interested in using Rail infrastructure. CIE own that. If it crosses or comes near existing infra, all good and well
4) They do however, seem to be talking to Board-na-mona regarding using tracks on bogs

The purpose for them is to link Routes 1 & 2 of the eurovelo

Edit; I forgot to add, and this is very interesting, I was talking to one of the head engineers. It happens they have 'clickers' counting numbers in the towns etc. along different greenways to gauge success. He said he's walked most of the Greenways in Ireland (his wife doesn't cycle). The Waterford & Westport green ways are off the charts busy, however, the others are not. On one (was it Moate??) he said they saw..... not one bike on their entire walk. He implied that many believe every green way is a goldmine,.. (the rumor of it will make green ways more appealing to some, and that's not a bad thing)

.

I've been in tourism groups etc and I've seen many businesses lack 'cop on', fail to take advantage of an opportunity and expect everything on a plate.
Personally, I believe the green way will be as successful as the communities they go through make them.

Losty Dublin · 12-08-2020 7:42pm

westtip wrote: »

Burke and Hare (this time Hare) at it again

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpjv2m7gcq2sgx4/B-Quinn%20interview_MWR_07-08-20.mp4?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR3Hck7yMrWD2pBLSzDf0b73CcQWMqfrVwEkryby_7qba3Gigk4M-Qgf5I0

For some reason it sounds as if chunks of audio have been clumsily edited out of the interview. Are Midwest Radio that unprofessional or has the file been snipped in places by whomever it is that posted it?

blackwhite · 12-08-2020 10:49pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

For some reason it sounds as if chunks of audio have been clumsily edited out of the interview. Are Midwest Radio that unprofessional or has the file been snipped in places by whomever it is that posted it?

Without having listened to the clip, I can definitively say that yes, yes they are that unprofessional.

A friend’s teenager did work experience with them a few years ago. The level of responsibility delegated to a transition year work experience student (on a two week placement!) was shocking.

TCDStudent1 · 12-08-2020 10:53pm

blackwhite wrote: »

Without having listened to the clip, I can definitively say that yes, yes they are that unprofessional.

A friend’s teenager did work experience with them a few years ago. The level of responsibility delegated to a transition year work experience student (on a two week placement!) was shocking.

Sounds like a great work placement. Better than sitting in the corner doing nothing!

Muckyboots · 13-08-2020 10:26am

Greaney wrote: »

I've just come back from the Raheen Woods Hotel. The impressions I got were...

1) They are interested in only discussing establishing a route between Athlone & Galway,
2) They are interested in using State owned land, so they want the state to 'own' the greenway. That's a higher spec than the eurovelo on mainland Europe. They want to meet landowners who are keen/interested in the project
3) They are not interested in using Rail infrastructure. CIE own that. If it crosses or comes near existing infra, all good and well
4) They do however, seem to be talking to Board-na-mona regarding using tracks on bogs

The purpose for them is to link Routes 1 & 2 of the eurovelo

Edit; I forgot to add, and this is very interesting, I was talking to one of the head engineers. It happens they have 'clickers' counting numbers in the towns etc. along different greenways to gauge success. He said he's walked most of the Greenways in Ireland (his wife doesn't cycle). The Waterford & Westport green ways are off the charts busy, however, the others are not. On one (was it Moate??) he said they saw..... not one bike on their entire walk. He implied that many believe every green way is a goldmine,.. (the rumor of it will make green ways more appealing to some, and that's not a bad thing) .

I've been in tourism groups etc and I've seen many businesses lack 'cop on', fail to take advantage of an opportunity and expect everything on a plate.
Personally, I believe the green way will be as successful as the communities they go through make them.

A lot of hearsay and anecdotal stuff in there. A bit incongruous, if you don't mind me saying so, that consultants would be dishing out "no gos" and personal anecdotes as evidence in the forum of a Public Consultation- but I don't doubt for a minute that you said what you said and heard what you heard. Doesn't make it so, though.

westtip · 13-08-2020 11:15am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

For some reason it sounds as if chunks of audio have been clumsily edited out of the interview. Are Midwest Radio that unprofessional or has the file been snipped in places by whomever it is that posted it?

Nobody has edited what they broadcast the clip gave the opening soundbite used in the news headlines and then cut in the final interview they broadcast on the lunchtime bulletin that day, in other words you heard what they broadcast, so no file has not been snipped by whomever posted it.

They did not broadcast the entire content of the telephone interview which ran for about ten minutes but the content they did use got the message across loud and clear; I am just glad it has been put up for posterity to ensure the full membership of Mayo county council can listen to in retrospect. You can try and belittle it as much as you want, with criticism of radio editing etc, but the message is out there, and the reason BTW they interviewed me was due to the fact they had not given the greenway campaign enough share of voice as other campaign groups, they accepted this and will continue to publish and give share of voice to both points of view, so the matter is very much up for discussion which will not please certain members of MCC.

Greaney · 13-08-2020 4:15pm

[PHP][/PHP]

Muckyboots wrote: »

A lot of hearsay and anecdotal stuff in there. A bit incongruous, if you don't mind me saying so, that consultants would be dishing out "no gos" and personal anecdotes as evidence in the forum of a Public Consultation- but I don't doubt for a minute that you said what you said and heard what you heard. Doesn't make it so, though.

He's not the only person I've spoken to who wants greenways by the way, who's pointed out that Westport & Waterford are significantly more busy than other green ways.

Pop over to Loughrea today & Oranmore tomorrow, engage on a one 2 one if you can and ask them yourselves.

ezstreet5 · 14-08-2020 1:42pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

A lot of hearsay and anecdotal stuff in there. A bit incongruous, if you don't mind me saying so, that consultants would be dishing out "no gos" and personal anecdotes as evidence in the forum of a Public Consultation- but I don't doubt for a minute that you said what you said and heard what you heard. Doesn't make it so, though.

I believe the poster described the statements as his "impressions" and not sworn evidence on affidavit.

Muckyboots · 14-08-2020 2:27pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I believe the poster described the statements as his "impressions" and not sworn evidence on affidavit.

Yes, that's much the same as what I said in my reply. You just chose a different form of words.

[Deleted User] · 14-08-2020 2:46pm

Greaney wrote: »

[PHP][/PHP]
Pop over to Loughrea today & Oranmore tomorrow, engage on a one 2 one if you can and ask them yourselves.

I did

After speaking with them, they confirmed one of their biggest constraints is the necessity to avoid as much private land as is possible. This pretty much kills the Ballinasloe to Loughrea route as there is virtually no state owned lands that way. There is a significant amount of state owned lands between Athenry and Ballinasloe though, mostly Coilte & bogs so while they have no route selections announced yet, this will likely be a fore-runner.

They had a very interesting map up showing the ownership of all the various land parcels in the area under review, sorry I didn't take a photo of it.

Also mentioned that running alongside the Dublin-Galway rail line would not be done as it would require too much of a land grab involved due to the second line requirements, additional space for safety, higher spec for fencing etc etc. Would just make it unfeasible

They mentioned that the route would be 3 meters wide so they would be looking at 4-5 meters wide requirements but their preference would be double that to allow for space for fencing, hedging, amenities (benches, water points etc) but where the route needed to go through private land this would likely not be a realistic ask.

They are also very mindful of landowners concerns and 3 different people I spoke with stated that where they had to purchase land, they would do their best to use a route that would mean as little disruption to the landowner as possible i.e. running along field boundaries. This will probably mean a twisty-turny route when using these lands. While I completely understand this approach, lets just hope it doesn't reach silly levels of accommodating landowners which would result in a farcical route

Greaney · 14-08-2020 4:25pm

DaCor wrote: »

I did

After speaking with them, they confirmed one of their biggest constraints is the necessity to avoid as much private land as is possible. This pretty much kills the Ballinasloe to Loughrea route as there is virtually no state owned lands that way. There is a significant amount of state owned lands between Athenry and Ballinasloe though, mostly Coilte & bogs so while they have no route selections announced yet, this will likely be a fore-runner.

They had a very interesting map up showing the ownership of all the various land parcels in the area under review, sorry I didn't take a photo of it.

Also mentioned that running alongside the Dublin-Galway rail line would not be done as it would require too much of a land grab involved due to the second line requirements, additional space for safety, higher spec for fencing etc etc. Would just make it unfeasible

They mentioned that the route would be 3 meters wide so they would be looking at 4-5 meters wide requirements but their preference would be double that to allow for space for fencing, hedging, amenities (benches, water points etc) but where the route needed to go through private land this would likely not be a realistic ask.

They are also very mindful of landowners concerns and 3 different people I spoke with stated that where they had to purchase land, they would do their best to use a route that would mean as little disruption to the landowner as possible i.e. running along field boundaries. This will probably mean a twisty-turny route when using these lands. While I completely understand this approach, lets just hope it doesn't reach silly levels of accommodating landowners which would result in a farcical route

Delighted you did. I found it was a real eye opener , and indeed a few of us did. Much as we all think, yes, lets give them 'our opinion' some of the parameters were unexpected. I found earlier discussions with people about using existing infra is moot with this project.

They've also got great info sources like cycling stats & land registry map. I was asking if that map your talking about, is online, they said yes, but I can't find it, if I do (or anyone can) it'd be good to post it on this thread.

Meanwhile, I wonder if farmers/private land owners would be more amenable now? Beef prices are in the toilet & folk will need to think outside the box...

ezstreet5 · 17-08-2020 11:10pm

DaCor wrote: »

They had a very interesting map up showing the ownership of all the various land parcels in the area under review, sorry I didn't take a photo of it.

Also mentioned that running alongside the Dublin-Galway rail line would not be done as it would require too much of a land grab involved due to the second line requirements, additional space for safety, higher spec for fencing etc etc. Would just make it unfeasible

I do hope that the current effort for EV2 succeeds, and that local TDs and politicians will stay away and not interfere. It sounds as if the project team were charged to have a bit of vision to create something great. That is, a gateway to a real greenway from Galway to Moscow. And I trust this will attract the necessary investment on the order of tens of millions of euros. I continue to reject calls by men without vision for so-called cheap and easy "greenways" on or beside rail lines with limited potential. You need to think bigger.

[Deleted User] · 17-08-2020 11:35pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I do hope that the current effort for EV2 succeeds, and that local TDs and politicians will stay away and not interfere. It sounds as if the project team were charged to have a bit of vision to create something great. That is, a gateway to a real greenway from Galway to Moscow. And I trust this will attract the necessary investment on the order of tens of millions of euros. I continue to reject calls by men without vision for so-called cheap and easy "greenways" on or beside rail lines with limited potential. You need to think bigger.

lol

ezstreet5 · 18-08-2020 12:10am

DaCor wrote: »

lol

laughing men can step aside.

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

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