DART+ (DART Expansion)

LXFlyer wrote: »

Well either way there's been a bit of confusion, as people are discussing DART Underground and the more immediate plans as if they were one and the same. :-)

One is (as you referred to) the DART Underground station at Spencer Dock, which is planned to be in a tunnel underground.

The other is about the NTA plan to relocate Docklands terminal station to an alternative overground site adjacent to Spencer Dock LUAS stop.

It's important to distinguish between the two!

Looking at that article I can't see anywhere it suggests the 'relocated to spencer dock station' would be an overground station.

Is there a plan detailed for it to be overground elsewhere or is it based on the potential budget that this element would have?

I can't see a scenario where IÉ would go to the trouble of building a station right where the optimal planned end of the DU tunnel would be and not at an absolute bare minimum include essential preparatory works for DU to come up there. Also I don't think there is any feasible above ground space for such a station to be built?

Just to absolutely clear:

My understanding of the NTA plan for the current Docklands Station, based on my own sources and the article that I linked to above, is that it is to be relocated to an alternative site above ground adjacent to Spencer Dock LUAS stop, and to be a four platform station.

I've never heard any suggestion that this station (first proposed in May 2018) would be underground, as it is a different proposal to the DART Underground one. The land that would be used is where the access to the NTA coach park currently is.

I get what some people are saying here about two stations, but this is as I understand it a completely different project from that proposed under DU.

As I say, I view this as a stalling tactic to DU by the NTA, if I am honest about it, which I do not agree with, but that's the way of the world right now. DU is not in favour.

That's all I am going to say on this.

I think it is worth noting that the [url=hhttps://www.irishrail.ie/Admin/IrishRail/media/Content/projects-and-investments/DART-brochure.PDF]DART Expansion brochure[/url] doesn't mention anything about relocating Docklands station. The scope of service for the Maynooth line DART upgrade also says;

• Remodelling Connolly Station and Docklands Station to increase capacity.
• Modifications at key junction approaching Connolly/Docklands Station from north and west to support increased services and flexibility

Nothing about relocation. The relocation thing is separate and there is no indication that it has been included in the scope since.

Separately, the NTA seem to have suggested that they would like to relocate Docklands station but this is not an official project yet. My understanding is that it would relocate to the plot between Sheriff Street and Mayor Street, not where the DU Spencer Dock station was to be (which is the plot further south, between Mayor Street and North Wall Quay). The station would obviously have to pass under Sheriff Street and would possibly be below the level of Mayor Street as well, although not underground.

I am sure that a relocated Docklands station could be built between Sheriff Street and Mayor Street in such a way to allow for construction of the DU tunnel and Spencer Dock station. They just need to determine the gradient of the track required to get under the Liffey and the relocated Docklands station gets built at the level immediately south of Sheriff Street. Ideally the relocated Docklands station would not be on the path of where the tracks heading for the tunnel are to be built. If that is not possible, they will have to lift the tracks at the relocated Docklands and regard in order to connect tracks to the section south of Mayor Street which would could some disruption although that could be the last piece of work before the tunnel opens.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I think it is worth noting that the [url=hhttps://www.irishrail.ie/Admin/IrishRail/media/Content/projects-and-investments/DART-brochure.PDF]DART Expansion brochure[/url] doesn't mention anything about relocating Docklands station. The scope of service for the Maynooth line DART upgrade also says;



Nothing about relocation. The relocation thing is separate and there is no indication that it has been included in the scope since.

Separately, the NTA seem to have suggested that they would like to relocate Docklands station but this is not an official project yet. My understanding is that it would relocate to the plot between Sheriff Street and Mayor Street, not where the DU Spencer Dock station was to be (which is the plot further south, between Mayor Street and North Wall Quay). The station would obviously have to pass under Sheriff Street and would possibly be below the level of Mayor Street as well, although not underground.

I am sure that a relocated Docklands station could be built between Sheriff Street and Mayor Street in such a way to allow for construction of the DU tunnel and Spencer Dock station. They just need to determine the gradient of the track required to get under the Liffey and the relocated Docklands station gets built at the level immediately south of Sheriff Street. Ideally the relocated Docklands station would not be on the path of where the tracks heading for the tunnel are to be built. If that is not possible, they will have to lift the tracks at the relocated Docklands and regard in order to connect tracks to the section south of Mayor Street which would could some disruption although that could be the last piece of work before the tunnel opens.

I’d take that brochure as a high level document, rather than a detailed description of the plans for DART expansion.

The latter will only come when the public consultation takes place.

It looks like they had planned to separate stations for Docklands

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/building-to-begin-on-28m-docklands-station-1.1022981

I can't see it happening initially, perhaps as part of a future expansion, but extending to Kilcock would also create the opportunity for a P&R beside Musgraves. That would be easily accessible from M4 J8, further east there is nowhere with such direct access from motorway to the rail line. Depending on the paths available after DART+, it might be easier to run a meaningful level of commuter services from Athlone/Mullingar into Dublin.

DART + Consultation for the Maynooth Line is now live:

https://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/iarnrod-eireann-projects-and-investments/DART-Programme

Interesting that they're going for a road tunnel at Ashtown under both the rail line and the canal—that seems much more complex than an overbridge!

MJohnston wrote: »

Interesting that they're going for a road tunnel at Ashtown under both the rail line and the canal—that seems much more complex than an overbridge!

Tunnel makes sense I think. There's little room for the bridge because of the proximity of the apartments and shops like Super Valu.
It's challenging to get anything into that area because of how narrow the existing road is and where the buildings are.

L1011 wrote: »

Increased number of terminal platforms.

At that location it should be possible to make it accessible from the Northern and Drumcondra lines also in future so it isn't just more terminal platforms for the lower line.

Right but, I guess what I mean is why can't they do that here:

MJohnston wrote: »

Interesting that they're going for a road tunnel at Ashtown under both the rail line and the canal—that seems much more complex than an overbridge!

Less visual impact, that's important too