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Rail line to Adare for Ryder Cup

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Comments

  • #152
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    kilburn wrote: »
    Goes straight through Moyross, back of Thomondgate, middle of Corbally, Dublin road at the parkway, Ballysimon road then station.

    5 minute walk to Thomond Park and Gaelic Grounds for matches.

    If it was reasonably priced I would use no problem.

    In a perfect world you would have a spur from Sixmilebridge through Shannon with stops at Smithstown, Free Zone and Airport.

    Interesting that it also interesting that Thomond pK is only a 10minute walk from the CC. 5minute walk to Corbett station, 10 minute train journey if you can get one and five.minute walk from this future station to Thomand PK. You be there before any train service on foot on a match day and you definitely wouldn't be using it after a match.

    The LUAS was all the rage one time on GAA match days. After the match was the problem. Quing in Abbey street for an hour or waiting on O Connell street and the full trams passing you by. Much easier to take the car into near Croke Park and even if you have to pay for parking it cheaper than the train fairs

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #153
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Bass Reeves wrote:
    Interesting that it also interesting that Thomond pK is only a 10minute walk from the CC. 5minute walk to Corbett station, 10 minute train journey if you can get one and five.minute walk from this future station to Thomand PK. You be there before any train service on foot on a match day and you definitely wouldn't be using it after a match.


    People coming from the Galway or Clare side then wouldn't have to go into the city and walk back out.


  • #154
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    kilburn wrote: »
    People coming from the Galway or Clare side then wouldn't have to go into the city and walk back out.

    If I from Galway if I am using PT I take a bus I might as well go to the CC in Limerick a d have a pint while waiting for my pal on the train to arrive. Unles I from Ennis I might as well drive as I might be mugged......in Ennis

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #155
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    DaCor wrote: »
    I think you only need look at the farce that is the WRC from Ennis to Athenry to see how this would perform

    Perhaps a fact check mark for Boards posts wouldn’t go amiss


  • #156
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    kilburn wrote: »
    Goes straight through Moyross, back of Thomondgate, middle of Corbally, Dublin road at the parkway, Ballysimon road then station.

    5 minute walk to Thomond Park and Gaelic Grounds for matches.

    If it was reasonably priced I would use no problem.

    In a perfect world you would have a spur from Sixmilebridge through Shannon with stops at Smithstown, Free Zone and Airport.

    It's a nice idea, but who may I ask would frequent a line looping around the outskirts of Limerick from Moyross to Colbert Station? A stop at the Parkway for example would leave you 3.5kms from the National Technology Park, so pretty much useless for anyone working there. It being handy for a matchday is not exactly a good business plan (and Google maps make those walking times 18 mins and 30 mins).

    Yes there are existing heavy rail lines around Limerick, but they don't go where people actually want to go. The largest suburb of Limerick is Castletroy, where UL as well as the NTP are also located, but there are no rail lines anywhere near it.

    I'll again go back to my point that the best way to provide good PT for Limerick is better bus services, which can actually go to where people will use it. So improved bus infrastructure and routes and park and ride facilites on the outskirts.

    Oh and there is already an excellent bus service between Shannon and Limerick serving Smithstown,the industrial estate and the airport 25 times a day on the 343 route with the 51 and x51 going directly between the airport and Limerick another 14 times a day. There isn't a requirement for a rail spur.


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  • #157
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    kilburn wrote: »
    People coming from the Galway or Clare side then wouldn't have to go into the city and walk back out.


    People from Galway or Clare can park in the Raddison and use the matchday Park and ride facility. Or actually Park around the stadium like the currently do.


  • #158
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    It's a nice idea, but who may I ask would frequent a line looping around the outskirts of Limerick from Moyross to Colbert Station? A stop at the Parkway for example would leave you 3.5kms from the National Technology Park, so pretty much useless for anyone working there. It being handy for a matchday is not exactly a good business plan (and Google maps make those walking times 18 mins and 30 mins).

    Yes there are existing heavy rail lines around Limerick, but they don't go where people actually want to go. The largest suburb of Limerick is Castletroy, where UL as well as the NTP are also located, but there are no rail lines anywhere near it.

    I'll again go back to my point that the best way to provide good PT for Limerick is better bus services, which can actually go to where people will use it. So improved bus infrastructure and routes and park and ride facilites on the outskirts.

    Oh and there is already an excellent bus service between Shannon and Limerick serving Smithstown,the industrial estate and the airport 25 times a day on the 343 route with the 51 and x51 going directly between the airport and Limerick another 14 times a day. There isn't a requirement for a rail spur.

    Thanks for this, a reasonable refutation of the merits of the scheme without resorting to raising the spectre of sparsely utilised rural lines, I would say Limerick would probably benefit most from new bus lines.

    Is there anywhere along the rail lines then that Limerick should look at for any future expansion (Either commercial or residential)? Planning going forward could then focus on building PT nuclei for future rail stations.


  • #159
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    Thanks for this, a reasonable refutation of the merits of the scheme without resorting to raising the spectre of sparsely utilised rural lines, I would say Limerick would probably benefit most from new bus lines.

    Is there anywhere along the rail lines then that Limerick should look at for any future expansion (Either commercial or residential)? Planning going forward could then focus on building PT nuclei for future rail stations.


    The answer is no. Even the theory that a Foynes line will reopen for freight is blinkered. At present rail moves very little freight due to just in time logistics. Ireland is a small country with a low population density spread sparsely , there is no point in carrying goods a distance on rail to unload and reload onto trucks to move it 50 or 60% of the original distance.

    If you wanted to build a city you would not copy Limerick. Traditionally it had three local authorities the city council had a small area about 2Km in a circle around the city. LK Co Co developed areas outside the city bounds such as Raheen/Doiradoyle and Castletroy. These are large sprawling area's. Add to that Clare Co Co developing Corbably all these area are 2-5km from the city center.
    The thing that has revolutionised Limerick was the ring road and the Tunnel. It allowed people to access work without having to go through the city center.
    I am sorry for sounding dismissive over the last few posts but the idea of throwing hundred of millions at rail in Limerick that cannot make better the public transportation system is galling. The idea that in this time if crisis a rail line to Adare deveserves Cabinet time is ridiculous.

    What worse is an attitude of why would you refuse it. 4-500 million would solve a lot of transportation problems in Limerick using buses. It might even give people a choice of not needing a second car. But because it not a rail solution it not Green

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #160
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    The answer is no. Even the theory that a Foynes line will reopen for freight is blinkered. At present rail moves very little freight due to just in time logistics. Ireland is a small country with a low population density spread sparsely , there is no point in carrying goods a distance on rail to unload and reload onto trucks to move it 50 or 60% of the original distance.

    If you wanted to build a city you would not copy Limerick. Traditionally it had three local authorities the city council had a small area about 2Km in a circle around the city. LK Co Co developed areas outside the city bounds such as Raheen/Doiradoyle and Castletroy. These are large sprawling area's. Add to that Clare Co Co developing Corbably all these area are 2-5km from the city center.
    The thing that has revolutionised Limerick was the ring road and the Tunnel. It allowed people to access work without having to go through the city center.
    I am sorry for sounding dismissive over the last few posts but the idea of throwing hundred of millions at rail in Limerick that cannot make better the public transportation system is galling. The idea that in this time if crisis a rail line to Adare deveserves Cabinet time is ridiculous.

    What worse is an attitude of why would you refuse it. 4-500 million would solve a lot of transportation problems in Limerick using buses. It might even give people a choice of not needing a second car. But because it not a rail solution it not Green

    I feel like the Greens get the short end of every stick, demonised by rail proponents for wanting greenways, demonised by bus corridor proponents for wanting rail, demonised by car owners for wanting public transit.

    I'm sure if you asked Mr Leddin what he sees as the key solutions to get Limerick moving in a sustainable way, he'd probably say massive expansion of
    • cycling provision
    • improvement of pedestrian permeability
    • more bus lanes, buses and maybe QBCs
    • trains

    In that order, the article just suggests he wants feasibility done for the rail aspect. Which would very likely result in the above stated issues becoming clear. I'm not saying its where Limerick transportation should be focused right now, but it begs the question, where is Limerick Transportation focused? I know they seem to want to get rid of the only Cycleway across the Shannon in the city, so where do the priorities lie?

    If the Foynes line is entirely unworkable for Freight or Commuter use, I would then suggest it, and the Concrete Plant Spur, be 'greenwayed' ASAP to provide a safe pedal powered option for getting in to the city centre


  • #161
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Last Stop wrote: »
    I’m sorry, I can’t agree with this, Qatar is building practically everything for the FIFA World Cup. South Africa did the same for their work cup. Athens the same for the Olympics. While these are on a different scale to the Ryder cup, so is reopening 15km of rail line rather than building entire metro systems
    aren't most of them bankrupt or in ruins now? and 1000's are dying building Quatar!


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  • #162
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Bass Reeves wrote:
    If you wanted to build a city you would not copy Limerick. Traditionally it had three local authorities the city council had a small area about 2Km in a circle around the city. LK Co Co developed areas outside the city bounds such as Raheen/Doiradoyle and Castletroy. These are large sprawling area's. Add to that Clare Co Co developing Corbably all these area are 2-5km from the city center. The thing that has revolutionised Limerick was the ring road and the Tunnel. It allowed people to access work without having to go through the city center. I am sorry for sounding dismissive over the last few posts but the idea of throwing hundred of millions at rail in Limerick that cannot make better the public transportation system is galling. The idea that in this time if crisis a rail line to Adare deveserves Cabinet time is ridiculous.

    Bass Reeves wrote:
    If you wanted to build a city you would not copy Limerick. Traditionally it had three local authorities the city council had a small area about 2Km in a circle around the city. LK Co Co developed areas outside the city bounds such as Raheen/Doiradoyle and Castletroy. These are large sprawling area's. Add to that Clare Co Co developing Corbably all these area are 2-5km from the city center. The thing that has revolutionised Limerick was the ring road and the Tunnel. It allowed people to access work without having to go through the city center. I am sorry for sounding dismissive over the last few posts but the idea of throwing hundred of millions at rail in Limerick that cannot make better the public transportation system is galling. The idea that in this time if crisis a rail line to Adare deveserves Cabinet time is ridiculous.


    Corbally is in Limerick City not Clare....


  • #163
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    I feel like the Greens get the short end of every stick, demonised by rail proponents for wanting greenways, demonised by bus corridor proponents for wanting rail, demonised by car owners for wanting public transit.

    I'm sure if you asked Mr Leddin what he sees as the key solutions to get Limerick moving in a sustainable way, he'd probably say massive expansion of
    • cycling provision
    • improvement of pedestrian permeability
    • more bus lanes, buses and maybe QBCs
    • trains

    In that order, the article just suggests he wants feasibility done for the rail aspect. Which would very likely result in the above stated issues becoming clear. I'm not saying its where Limerick transportation should be focused right now, but it begs the question, where is Limerick Transportation focused? I know they seem to want to get rid of the only Cycleway across the Shannon in the city, so where do the priorities lie?

    That's what the LSMATS plan is deciding. Really he should wait for the publication of the this plan before deciding what he want to be done. And Eamonn Ryan should be telling him the same.


  • #164
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    kilburn wrote: »
    Corbally is in Limerick City not Clare....


    Corbally is in the Electoral Division of Clooney, in Civil Parish of Clooney, in the Barony of Bunratty Upper, in the County of Clare
    https://www.townlands.ie/clare/bunratty-upper/clooney/clooney/corbally/


    Corbally straddles both counties.


  • #165
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    That's what the LSMATS plan is deciding. Really he should wait for the publication of the this plan before deciding what he want to be done. And Eamonn Ryan should be telling him the same.

    Well I really hope that LSMATS is more ambitious for sustainable travel than CMATS was...


  • #166
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    I feel like the Greens get the short end of every stick, demonised by rail proponents for wanting greenways, demonised by bus corridor proponents for wanting rail, demonised by car owners for wanting public transit.

    I'm sure if you asked Mr Leddin what he sees as the key solutions to get Limerick moving in a sustainable way, he'd probably say massive expansion of
    • cycling provision
    • improvement of pedestrian permeability
    • more bus lanes, buses and maybe QBCs
    • trains

    In that order, the article just suggests he wants feasibility done for the rail aspect. Which would very likely result in the above stated issues becoming clear. I'm not saying its where Limerick transportation should be focused right now, but it begs the question, where is Limerick Transportation focused? I know they seem to want to get rid of the only Cycleway across the Shannon in the city, so where do the priorities lie?

    If the Foynes line is entirely unworkable for Freight or Commuter use, I would then suggest it, and the Concrete Plant Spur, be 'greenwayed' ASAP to provide a safe pedal powered option for getting in to the city centre

    I have no problem with Greenway's and I think it a great use of unused rail lines. Most of the opposition is from those that want them reopened. The Concrete Plant spur was tarmacked over on the Dock road 4-5 years ago,I say it a lot of 10 years since there was a train in the plant. Ya turn that section into a cycleway.

    The problem with the cycleway across the bridge is it took a lane off the busiest bridge in Limerick. It should have been possible to either erect a lower spec bridge for pedestrians or cyclists..

    This on a bridge that over thirty years ago when the contractor arrived on side he offered them two extra lanes on the bridge for an extra 10% on the cost. There was no hoops to be jumped through then with projects like that. LK corporation refused as they have to spend extra on a cess to and from it

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #167
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    kilburn wrote: »
    Corbally is in Limerick City not Clare....

    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Corbally is in the Electoral Division of Clooney, in Civil Parish of Clooney, in the Barony of Bunratty Upper, in the County of Clare
    https://www.townlands.ie/clare/bunratty-upper/clooney/clooney/corbally/


    Corbally straddles both counties.

    Everything from the bridge that splits it in two is in Co. Clare. It is the biggest half now.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #168
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Cookiemunster wrote:
    Corbally straddles both counties.


    You might want to look at those maps you shared again.

    I live in Corbally and can confirm for you it's not a townland out side Ennis near Quinn........


  • #169
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    I have no problem with Greenway's and I think it a great use of unused rail lines. Most of the opposition is from those that want them reopened. The Concrete Plant spur was tarmacked over on the Dock road 4-5 years ago,I say it a lot of 10 years since there was a train in the plant. Ya turn that section into a cycleway.

    The problem with the cycleway across the bridge is it took a lane off the busiest bridge in Limerick. It should have been possible to either erect a lower spec bridge for pedestrians or cyclists..

    This on a bridge that over thirty years ago when the contractor arrived on side he offered them two extra lanes on the bridge for an extra 10% on the cost. There was no hoops to be jumped through then with projects like that. LK corporation refused as they have to spend extra on a cess to and from it

    Given it is intended as a COVID-19 emergency measure I think the point was to implement it quickly rather than spend 10 years on feasiblity and planning of a pedestrian/cycle bridge (but I suggest they get on that yesterday (see Athlone)).

    Also solving the issue of the busiest bridge in Limerick being busy probably doesn't involve more space for cars. (But I digress)

    I think as a matter of urgency they would want to look at quick wins on cycling and pedestrian routes, the section from town to where the concrete spur comes off is dual track, which probably wouldn't be needed for a freight line anyway, so there is potential there without killing the Foynes line. Probably a million street cycleways that could be laid down. while they are at that they can Island all the bus stops and prepare their key bus corridors for Limerick Busconnects...


  • #170
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    kilburn wrote: »
    You might want to look at those maps you shared again.

    I live in Corbally and can confirm for you it's not a townland out side Ennis near Quinn........

    OK I should have looked at that a bit closer, but......

    Shannon Banks, Corbally, Co ?????
    Westbury, Corbally, Co ?????

    Can you guess the county? Hint, it's not Limerick. Everything on the far side of the river is in Clare and is still known as Corbally.


  • #171
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Cookiemunster wrote:
    Can you guess the county? Hint, it's not Limerick. Everything on the far side of the river is in Clare and is still known as Corbally.

    No need to be rude.

    Corbally is and always was a Limerick suburb, Clare leveraged that for easy planning contributions.


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  • #172
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    kilburn wrote: »
    No need to be rude.

    Corbally is and always was a Limerick suburb, Clare leveraged that for easy planning contributions.

    And I made that exact point relating to Castletroy and Dooradoyle/Raheen as well

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #173
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    kilburn wrote: »
    No need to be rude.

    Corbally is and always was a Limerick suburb, Clare leveraged that for easy planning contributions.


    Which is exactly the point Bass made, before you tried to be smart about it.


  • #174
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Listen, the only Corbally townland anywhere near Limerick seems to be this one

    https://www.townlands.ie/limerick/clanwilliam/st-patricks/abbey-a/corbally/

    Which is definitely in Limerick, I neither know, nor care, if that's the correct one, it doesn't exactly seem relevant to the Adare rail line or the Limerick transport strategy in general...


  • #175
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Cookiemunster wrote:
    Which is exactly the point Bass made, before you tried to be smart about it.


    I was not being smart anywhere I don't know if Bass is familiar with Limerick or Clare.


  • #176
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    I never got the love-in with trains other than that people perceive that there's a certain elitism connected with them.
    Public transport needs to be quick, reliable, cost-effective and to serve both high-density residential areas and where there is large-scale employment centres. A bus service costs a bucket of paint and buses, a train line costs a fortune.
    People have bleated for years about a train from Dublin airport, yet the bus through the port tunnel has you in the city centre in 15-20 minutes which is far quicker than any train line.
    People need to get real, a train line to places like Adare, Sixmilebridge (population 2,507) etc is nonsense.
    Also, if there really is the demand for public transport to these places, why not put it out to tender and see if a private operator thinks he can make any money on it...I have no problem with subsidised public transport but it can't be at enormous cost.


  • #177
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    Listen, the only Corbally townland anywhere near Limerick seems to be this one

    https://www.townlands.ie/limerick/clanwilliam/st-patricks/abbey-a/corbally/

    Which is definitely in Limerick, I neither know, nor care, if that's the correct one, it doesn't exactly seem relevant to the Adare rail line or the Limerick transport strategy in general...

    I was point out the issues with trying to solve limerick PT issues with rail.
    kilburn wrote: »
    I was not being smart anywhere I don't know if Bass is familiar with Limerick or Clare.


    Limerick is like NY with its five boroughs. There are five distint area's of the city. The city itself mostly the south of the river starting at Ballincurra. circled by the Childers road and coming in through Rhebogue onto St Marys Church, Thomongate , all the North circular road area and in by Sarsfield bridge.

    Then you have the Chairdavin Area from the Condell road, swinging up to Moylish and out around Moyross.

    The area referred to as Corbally would start at the Bridge after ST Mary's Church and continues out to include Shannon banks and Westbury both in Co Clare.

    Castletroy area would be from the Park way, around UL in Pleassy, Milford, Kilmurry, Monaleen and now taking in parts of Annacotty

    Doordoyle/Raheen is from the Cresent SC north and south bounded by the new road on one side and by the existing LK-Foynes road on the other side.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #178
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    Well I really hope that LSMATS is more ambitious for sustainable travel than CMATS was...

    Only spotted this now. Limerick already has the vast majority of it road network in place with the SRR and tunnel and the N18 into Shannon. The only thing that's left to be considered is the LNDR. Because of that I'd expect the LSMATS to be heavily focused on PT and cycling.


  • #179
    Paddico
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭Paddico


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    I was point out the issues with trying to solve limerick PT issues with rail.




    Limerick is like NY with its five boroughs. There are five distint area's of the city. The city itself mostly the south of the river starting at Ballincurra. circled by the Childers road and coming in through Rhebogue onto St Marys Church, Thomongate , all the North circular road area and in by Sarsfield bridge.

    Then you have the Chairdavin Area from the Condell road, swinging up to Moylish and out around Moyross.

    The area referred to as Corbally would start at the Bridge after ST Mary's Church and continues out to include Shannon banks and Westbury both in Co Clare.

    Castletroy area would be from the Park way, around UL in Pleassy, Milford, Kilmurry, Monaleen and now taking in parts of Annacotty

    Doordoyle/Raheen is from the Cresent SC north and south bounded by the new road on one side and by the existing LK-Foynes road on the other side.

    :D:D:D:D:D Best quote yet


  • #180
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,719 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Maybe a rebuilt line to Clifden?... I hear it's renowned for its golf.


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  • #181
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Maybe a rebuilt line to Clifden?... I hear it's renowned for its golf.

    Great idea, could even get a Connacht Minister to open it....oh wait....


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