M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

KrisW1001 wrote: »

The Greens are like every political party - they contain a range of opinions on road transport, from pragmatic to bat**** crazy. There are environmentally justifiable reasons for road-building, despite the high cost to the environment: motorways take through-traffic out of populated areas, they reduce the fuel consumption of heavy goods traffic, and they are safer. Also, roads aren't combustion engines: future, electrified, transport will still need roads to run on.

Personally, as someone who has regularly voted Green, but also supports road building, I think M20 should be one of the last motorways built in the State - after this one, there are very few routes that justify this capacity, except on the ground that there's huge commuter demand, and commuter traffic is always the wrong reason to build a motorway. Instead of adding lanes in and out of the cities, we should be improving the routes between the motorways, and routes in rural areas, many of which haven't changed since the 1950s. For the cities we should be spending on better public transport (rail, light-rail, both with free park-and-ride facilities) instead of encouraging more and more people to drive all the way in to work and back every day. But none of these things are "either-or": everything is important.

Hear hear!

Am a Green, M20 is a vital project that needs built, once its done, the country cannot justify another Motorway, safety improvements only (E.g. A1 upgrade up North)

Cities need alternatives, look at providing dedicated bus lanes on some of the 3 lane routes with frequent services in peak times, subsidise ticket prices on PT, a serious dedicated look at creating a rural cycle and walking network so people can safely travel from village to village without having to drive.

I do have my doubts that Eamonn Ryan is the person to deliver that, all I want is a competent green transport minister...

Hibernicis wrote: »

Agree re the M20. Most of the remainder of your post makes sense, but saying that “the country cannot justify another Motorway” is OTT. What about M3 (J1-3), N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour, M28, M40(N&W), M45/49/51 (or whatever the Leinster Orbital ends up being called) ? All/most of these are very necessary and will not be supplanted by bicycles, passenger trains or public transport. Whether they are HQDC or Motorway is little more than semantics.

I presume he means by the time the N/M20 gets to construction the M28, M21 Adare and M25 to Midleton will be under construction or completed. N3 J1-3 is an upgrade of existing road, not new build motorway. N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour might have motorway to Wexford but certainly not south of the town, even 2+2 would suffice to Wexford. I can't see a full on new Leinster Orbital motorway, policy has shifted any from that in the short to medium term at least and might not even be desired in the future. The M40 would more likely be the last offline new build motorway.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I presume he means by the time the N/M20 gets to construction the M28, M21 Adare and M25 to Midleton will be under construction or completed. N3 J1-3 is an upgrade of existing road, not new build motorway. N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour might have motorway to Wexford but certainly not south of the town, even 2+2 would suffice to Wexford. I can't see a full on new Leinster Orbital motorway, policy has shifted any from that in the short to medium term at least and might not even be desired in the future. The M40 would more likely be the last offline new build motorway.

Isn't the M40 an online Upgrade of the N40?

Yes I mean all the other 'essential' motorways will be complete before the M20.

The Leinster Orbital is VERY firmly in the category of "Definitely not needed", its trying to solve a problem that should be fixed by making the M50 do the job it was made for instead of the job it does, get junction hoppers off it and change the tolling system to favour true orbital use, put in an orbital priority bus service and you should dramatically ease congestion on it. Building the leinster orbital would essentially be making a 'fatter pipe' just not directly on the same road space, the N-roads that it would replace should just have whatever required safety improvements are needed.

N3 is an extremely poor example, same with all the N roads coming off the M50, most of those could be made Motorway through a pruning of Junctions etc so I'm not including them as 'New' Motorway.

The whole network, and especially the 3 lane routes should be looking at bus priority measures, maybe hard shoulder running like they have in NI. A retrofit of all junctions with good bus facilities and cycling/walking links to towns, plus decent sized park and rides on approach to cities and cheaper bus fares would hopefully encourage more people to use intercity bus routes and improve speed of operations with stopping buses not having to navigate town centres.

These link stops could even have a local link style bus connecting to the nearby towns, forming a PT 'Hub' for each area.

Isambard wrote: »

i think what's meant is a new extension of the M40 to connect with the M20

Ah, that could probably fall under "Safety", an M20-M8-M40 link would definitely be reasonable, but new 'long-distance' motorway is just not needed, or if it is it should be the last resort after PT/Cycling/Walking solutions have been implemented.

Isambard wrote: »

the M8 wouldn't really come into it, it's the extension of the Cork ring road from the Tunnel to the M20 replacing the North Ring through Ballyvolane.

The M8 is on the other side of Dunkettle from the tunnel is it not? A link to the tunnel would therefore link the M20 to the M8?

riddlinrussell wrote: »

The M8 is on the other side of Dunkettle from the tunnel is it not? A link to the tunnel would therefore link the M20 to the M8?

well no, the M8 doesn't start for a short distance technically, and that section , which will need a rebuild, would be designated M40 to give a continuous ring road if I interpreted the situation correctly.

Isambard wrote: »

well no, the M8 doesn't start for a short distance technically, and that section , which will need a rebuild, would be designated M40 to give a continuous ring road if I interpreted the situation correctly.

The only section that's not covered would be further north, i.e west of Glanmire and north of Ballincollig. Maybe I've misunderstood you, but I know the area well and I'm not making sense of some of the posts.

Isambard wrote: »

my only point is that traffic using this route won't be using the M8. The route will be (at a guess) continuous N40/M40 no doubt with a connection off it to the Glanmire Bypass/ M8 (This may entail re-designating part of the N8/M8 as M40/N40. )

Wasn’t something similar meant to happen with the N18 supposed to become the M7 at Cratloemoyle?

PKB1 wrote: »

Hi,

Does anybody know when the preferred route is expected to be picked?

July/August was the guidance I was given during consultation

PKB1 wrote: »

How wide is the corridor route that will be chosen?

Not too sure. All I was told was it will definitely be somewhere within the corridors and won't branch outside them in any place. TBF to them though, I didn't ask the width

BloodyBill wrote: »

The big worry in all this is Eamon Ryan. Hes stalled the Northern distributer Road in Limerick city. Who's going to be surprised if he comes out and stalls this. He could say we are working remotely..we ll upgrade the railway between Kent and Colbert...ect. The Greens will try and put a spanner in this roads spokes...wait and see

By the time it's ready to start construction ,they may be out of government

danpaddyandy wrote: »

Hi
So is there a complete freeze on planning permissions for houses/sheds within these corridors . Will the planning freeze be lifted on the non chosen routes when they choose a preferred route or will it be when the chosen route is all approved by An Bord Pleanála in 2 or 3 years?

Thanks

Haven't heard anything official but I would expect that any planning restrictions in place at the moment will be removed around the unsuccessful route option once the decision has been made later in the year.

You won't have to wait until planning is granted on the successful route for restrictions to be lifted on the unsuccessful route

PKB1 wrote: »

I just found out that the corridors are 500m wide.

That is normal for option selection stage. The preferred corridor is refined during the design stage.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

M18 rather than M7. That’ll never happen, there’s houses fronting onto the N18 all the way from Cratloemoyle to Shannon.

Supposed to be reclassified as N7 from the Limerick inn junction back in the day.